Being that we're the only mammals that have developed ornate rituals surrounding the process of "socially approved" sex, it is an idea that someone came up with (and a religious idea at that)
Forget about the rituals. The Church service is unnecessary, the garden service with a celebrant is unnecessary.
The forming of a family with bonds and commitments is what happens and generally for the mutual arrangement of bringing up dependant offspring (but not always). Many birds partner up for life. Same thing as us humans.
Having a marriage certificate just formalises that arrangement under law and offers protections and privileges.
And that's not even mentioning the fact that prior to Judeo-Christian influence, marriage had little to do with romance/love and was largely rooted in family arrangements. (and actually still is in many parts of the world)
Secular marriage is different from a religious marriage. Just because they both use the word "marriage" I don't see why people try to conflate these two similar but different things. If you want to stop Catholic weddings between gay people then so be it, but don't interfere in secular weddings.
I don't believe being a gay is a choice either, which is why I referred to it as an immutable characteristic.
I think it can be both nature and nurture. I don't care either way. It's none of my business whether a person was born that way or simply made a choice. People don't need my approval to make choices.
Nobody's telling people who their partner has to be. And I'm not suggesting that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married.
This is incorrect. Many churches will not allow their members to marry certain types of partners.
Some Christians want to tell people which partners they shouldn't marry, and want to make a statement of it by refusing to provide services for such unions.
You're not picking the "type of person", you're picking the "type of event".
Type of event = Marriage
Type of person = gay
There's a difference between providing catering services to white people and providing catering services for a white supremacy event, yes?
I'm not sure what you are getting at with this statement.
But if I were a cake maker and a known white supremacist came into my store and wanted a cake, I would sell it to them, even knowing that they are biggoted against blacks. Just as if a Nun came to my shop, I'd sell them a cake, even knowing that they are likely biggoted against gays.
For the same reason that I, as a software developer, gladly built business-related websites for a few members of my parents' church back in the day, but declined the offer to do their actual church website, itself. As an atheist, I didn't feel like spending my free time designing a website for something I don't agree with.
Your free time? So it wasn't a business that you do for money and sell to the general public?
If I made websites for a living, I wouldn't need my clients to prove to me how moral they are. I'd do the work and endorse my workmanship, but not be endorsing the company/organisation or message of my client.
Perhaps think about it from a defence lawyer perspective. IF a lawyer works for a murderer and gives them the best defence possible. Is that lawyer just doing their job, or are they endorsing murder?
I don't dislike them for being the specific brand of Christians they are, I get along well with them at social events and would be happy to do other types of tech work for them, but I didn't want my name attached to/associated with content that was suggesting that common core was tied to "cultural marxism", so I declined.
I really don't get it. Providing services for payment doesn't mean you are endorsing your client.
And the association aspect is a big part of it as well. If you begrudgingly did a website for something you didn't personally agree with, do you want your name out there in all the Yelp reviews and forums as "The person who made an amazing website for cause XYZ"?
You'll never know what scandals might come up. You built a website for money, that is the business that you are in. If one of your clients then ended up murdering someone or being caught for drug smuggling, do you then insist that your client shut down the website you built?
Does the person that sold shoes to them ring them up and ask them to return the shoes?
Does the person that sold a car to them ring them up and ask them to return the car?
I didn't suggest that people get married to prove a point, I suggested that some people are going out of their way to find someone who will refuse to provide them the specific customized service they're looking for so that they can "kick the hornets nest" so to speak.
I have no problems with people highlighting and taking on companies or businesses that are violating anti-discrimination laws.
It'd be like a person claiming "the ability to eat meat is an extension of my religion because of 1 Timothy 4:3 and Genesis 9:3 of the KJV bible", and then going to the one vegan restaurant in town and demanding they make you a hamburger, and "if you don't do it, that's discriminating against Christianity"
It wouldn't be like that at all.
It would be like wanting to have a wedding reception in a Vegan restaurant and the owner refusing because the married couple are gay.
But that's not an apples to apples comparison. The website designer isn't refusing to do work for gay people, they're refusing to design a gay wedding website. It's a subtle difference, but a difference none the less.
They are refusing to provide their services to gay people.
The argument of free speech shouldn't apply if the clients are bringing with them the words.
I agree, you can't force a person to write a speech about something they don't agree with. But posting other people's words is very different.
Should a postal company owned by a devout and anti gay Christian be opening all the letters and parcels to work out if any of the letters or parcels contain things that they don't agree with, and then refuse to deliver the letters and parcels? Is this a violation of the postal company's owner's freedom of speech?
If you were a hypothetical gay baker and/or website designer (or just someone who's an ally of the gay community)...noting that religion is a protected class, would you want to design and decorate a cake with a bible verse out of Leviticus? Or would you say "hey, sorry, I'll sell you a cake/website, but those specific customizations you're asking for...yeah, you'll have to go somewhere else to get that part done"
I'd be happy to bake the cake and take the money.
Would that make you "bigoted against Christians" for that refusal?
It would be bigoted against the Christians if I refused to sell cakes to be used in Christian weddings.
