Who's who of Revelation 17

Douggg · Jun 14, 2023

The Scarlet colored beast - Satan
Mystery Babylon the Great - the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels - responsible for all slain upon the earth
The woman turned Harlot - the Vatican. associated with Rome, bishops and cardinals dressed in scarlet and purple.
The beast in the bottomless pit - the garden of eden serpent beast used by Satan
The beast who was, is not, yet is - the end times beast king of Revelation 17:11, Satan empowers him
The seven head kings - Julio-Claudian rulers of the Roman Empire
King 7 who continues a short space - the little horn person, over ten Eu leaders
King 8 the beast king - King 7 after he has been killed and brought back to life, and continues the short space of 42 months
Ten horn kings - ten EU leaders, the EU the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, of the end times.

David Kent · Jun 28, 2023

Douggg said:
The Scarlet colored beast - Satan
Mystery Babylon the Great - the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels - responsible for all slain upon the earth
The woman turned Harlot - the Vatican. associated with Rome, bishops and cardinals dressed in scarlet and purple.
The beast in the bottomless pit - the garden of eden serpent beast used by Satan
The beast who was, is not, yet is - the end times beast king of Revelation 17:11, Satan empowers him
The seven head kings - Julio-Claudian rulers of the Roman Empire
King 7 who continues a short space - the little horn person, over ten Eu leaders
King 8 the beast king - King 7 after he has been killed and brought back to life, and continues the short space of 42 months
Ten horn kings - ten EU leaders, the EU the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire, of the end times.

I wonder if you ever read the scriptures. Where do you get the EU from, it is only a part of it. The EU has got almost all that Hiler did but by stealth not force. Not yet anyway.

The Daniel 2 tells us the the divided Empire would never stick together. Over the centuries there have been many attempts to unite Europe under the papacy, WW1 and WW2 were the latest.

Douggg · Jun 28, 2023

David Kent said:
I wonder if you ever read the scriptures. Where do you get the EU from, it is only a part of it. The EU has got almost all that Hiler did but by stealth not force. Not yet anyway.

The Daniel 2 tells us the the divided Empire would never stick together. Over the centuries there have been many attempts to unite Europe under the papacy, WW1 and WW2 were the latest.

David, the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26 comes from the people who destroyed the temple and city (of Jerusalem).

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The little horn and the ten kings associated with him wlll come out of the Romane Empire (the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7:23-24).

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The EEC, European Economic Community came about by the treaty of Rome in 1957. And later in 1992 by the Maastricht became the European Union

David Kent · Jun 29, 2023

Douggg said:
David, the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26 comes from the people who destroyed the temple and city (of Jerusalem).

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The little horn and the ten kings associated with him wlll come out of the Romane Empire (the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7:23-24).

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The EEC, European Economic Community came about by the treaty of Rome in 1957. And later in 1992 by the Maastricht became the European Union

The prince who was to come was Titus who whose people destroyed the temple. It was fulfilled exactly it was not the prince who destroyed the temple but his people. Titus appealed to the Jews to save their holy house and ordered his troops not to destroy the temple. But one soldier set the temple doors on fire and the rest of the troops then attacked the temple, and Titus onle ordered the temple to be destroyed only when it was too late to save it as he didn't want to charge his troops with mutiny. Daniel 9 is completely fulfilled.

Douggg · Jun 29, 2023

David Kent said:
The prince who was to come was Titus who whose people destroyed the temple. It was fulfilled exactly it was not the prince who destroyed the temple but his people. Titus appealed to the Jews to save their holy house and ordered his troops not to destroy the temple. But one soldier set the temple doors on fire and the rest of the troops then attacked the temple, and Titus onle ordered the temple to be destroyed only when it was too late to save it as he didn't want to charge his troops with mutiny. Daniel 9 is completely fulfilled.

David, while I don't disagree with regarding Titus and his role in the destruction of the temple, he is not the prince who shall come. because.... Titus was not time of the end, nor was Titus part of a vision that Daniel previously had.

The previous vision is that in Daniel8 of the little horn person - who will be the prince who shall come.

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Gabriel informed Daniel in verse 24 that the 70 weeks determined upon his people and Jerusalem included to seal the vision and prophecy - i.e. complete it.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel had several experiences during his lifetime whereby he received prophecies about the end times, time of the end. One of those time of the end prophecies deal with the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11-12.

Another with the transgression of desolation time of the end vision Daniel had of the little horn person in Daniel 8. Daniel 8 is when Daniel first encountered Gabriel.

So when Gabriel appeared to Daniel again in Daniel 9, Daniel recognized him right away.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

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So what we have to do in our study of eschatology is find all of the passages in the bible that are time of the end specific. And put those together in a timeline of events - so we have a clear picture of what is going to take place.

The two most beneficial ways for us to achieve our goal of a timeline of events are.

1. Track through the prophecies, and determine the path of the arch villain of the end times. ...from his beginnings to his end when he will be cast alive into the lake of fire. He goes through several roles along that path, beginning as the little horn and ending as the beast king.

2. The second beneficial way is to make note of all the timeframes given in the various end times passages - like the 7 years, the 1260 days, the 1290 days, the 1335th day, the time/times/half times, the 2300 days, the 3 1/2 days, the 42 months. Arrange those in the correct order so our timeline fits together without conflicts.

David Kent · Jul 3, 2023

Douggg said:
David, the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26 comes from the people who destroyed the temple and city (of Jerusalem

Agreed Titus did that.

Douggg said:
David, while I don't disagree with regarding Titus and his role in the destruction of the temple, he is not the prince who shall come. because.... Titus was not time of the end, nor was Titus part of a vision that Daniel previously had.

Titus ended the Jewish dispensation. When God used him to punish the Jews for filling up the measure of their fathers who killed the prophets.

Douggg said:
The previous vision is that in Daniel8 of the little horn person - who will be the prince who shall come.

This little horn comes out of the Greek kingdom and was Antiochus Epiphanes.

Douggg said:
1. Track through the prophecies, and determine the path of the arch villain of the end times. ...from his beginnings to his end when he will be cast alive into the lake of fire. He goes through several roles along that path, beginning as the little horn and ending as the beast king.

2. The second beneficial way is to make note of all the timeframes given in the various end times passages - like the 7 years, the 1260 days, the 1290 days, the 1335th day, the time/times/half times, the 2300 days, the 3 1/2 days, the 42 months. Arrange those in the correct order so our timeline fits together without conflicts.

1. The trouble with your teaching is that you take every mention of phrases such as the time of the end and last time etc. as the actual end of time, whereas it often refers to the end of the period that it is addressing such as Daniel 11:35 which refers to the end of the Greek kingdom. Verse 36 onwards refers to the Roman Empire taking the kingdom. The wilful king was Herod, who supported the last Pharaoh and switched sides and became part of the Roman Empire. HEROD the king. Matthew 2:1,3

There are only 4 empires mentioned in scripture by name, 3 in Daniel and one in the gospels:
JOHN 11:48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

They were wrong. They did recognise that it was Rome who would take away their place and nation but they didn't leave him alone, but the Romans did take away their place and nation!

I repeat what I said before. The 70 weeks refers to the Messiah not the Antichrist

I can't find the exact quote at present but Joseph Mede who died in 1639 got it correct when he said that the Messiah came when the Jews were expecting him but the didn't recognise him because they were looking for the wrong type of leader.

Likewise the Antichrist came when the church were expecting him but they didn't recognise him as they were expecting the wrong type of enemy.

Douggg · Jul 3, 2023

David Kent said:
1. The trouble with your teaching is that you take every mention of phrases such as the time of the end and last time etc. as the actual end of time, whereas it often refers to the end of the period that it is addressing such as Daniel 11:35 which refers to the end of the Greek kingdom. Verse 36 onwards refers to the Roman Empire taking the kingdom. The wilful king was Herod, who supported the last Pharaoh and switched sides and became part of the Roman Empire. HEROD the king. Matthew 2:1,3

The willful king in Daniel 11:36 will be beast king, dictator of the EU (the Roman Empire of the end times).

1. Track through the prophecies, and determine the path of the arch villain of the end times. ...from his beginnings to his end when he will be cast alive into the lake of fire. He goes through several roles along that path, beginning as the little horn and ending as the beast king.

David Kent · Jul 3, 2023

Douggg said:
The willful king in Daniel 11:36 will be beast king, dictator of the EU (the Roman Empire of the end times).

1. Track through the prophecies, and determine the path of the arch villain of the end times. ...from his beginnings to his end when he will be cast alive into the lake of fire. He goes through several roles along that path, beginning as the little horn and ending as the beast king.

View attachment 332901

How do you get the wilful king to be head of the EU when he is at the end of the Greek kingdom, when the Roman ships came against him?

The ruling 6th king was the Emperors. The 7th was the the Christian Emperors wholy a short time.the beast that was amidst ot was those Christian Emperors . The beast that was, the Christian Emperors, was not because it was removed to the east.

Then the west was divided into the ten Germanic states, and from them ca,e the beast that was and is not yet is, the papacy was a revival of the Christian emperors. No other king ruled from Rome but the popes until 1870 , 1260 years or prophetic days since the papacy achieved the title of universal bishop.

You may be correct in that the EU is the last manifestation of the revived Roman empire. But remember that they will never stick together as iron will not stick firmly to clay.

Note that In Daniel 2 and 7, the Roman kingdom will last till the end, there is no break.

REVELATION has to fit into those 2 accounts and if it doesn't your understanding of Revelation is wrong.

VATICAN STATE is not a member of the EU, or the monetary union but has the power to issue Eoro coins. Work that one out.

notworthconsideration · Jul 7, 2023

Douggg said:
Track through the prophecies, and determine the path of the arch villain of the end times. ...from his beginnings to his end when he will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

It’ll be a fascinating journey, for sure. Don’t be disappointed if the beast & the harlot are not who you’re thinking.
Good luck!

Douggg · Jul 7, 2023

David Kent said:
How do you get the wilful king to be head of the EU when he is at the end of the Greek kingdom, when the Roman ships came against him?

David, I don't know what verses you are referring to. But if it is the verse in Daniel 11:30, that verse is about Antiochus IV being forced to turn around or face being at war with Rome.

David Kent · Jul 7, 2023

Douggg said:
David, I don't know what verses you are referring to. But if it is the verse in Daniel 11:30, that verse is about Antiochus IV being forced to turn around or face being at war with Rome.

Daniel 11:36ff

David Kent · Jul 7, 2023

@Douggg do you follow Hendricksen?

Douggg · Jul 7, 2023

notworthconsideration said:
It’ll be a fascinating journey, for sure. Don’t be disappointed if the beast & the harlot are not who you’re thinking.
Good luck!

Welcome to the eschatology forum, nothworthconsideration.

Douggg · Jul 7, 2023

David Kent said:
@Douggg do you follow Hendricksen?

No, I have not heard of him. Enlighten me.

Douggg · Jul 7, 2023

David Kent said:
Daniel 11:36ff

Daniel 11:36 is time of the end. The verse picks up at the time of the end, after the person has become the beast king.

David Kent · Jul 8, 2023

Douggg said:
Daniel 11:36 is time of the end. The verse picks up at the time of the end, after the person has become the beast king.

View attachment 333111

False prophesy.
1 The EU is 27 not 10.
2 The prince came nearly 2,000 years ago.
3 Antichrist is the 8th king of the Roman empire not Israel. Same as the man of sin, and the beast.
4 All happened in the past.

Douggg · Jul 8, 2023

David Kent said:
False prophesy.
1 The EU is 27 not 10.
2 The prince came nearly 2,000 years ago.
3 Antichrist is the 8th king of the Roman empire not Israel. Same as the man of sin, and the beast.
4 All happened in the past.

1. The EU is 27 nations. The ten leaders are a group of ten EU individuals - not ten nations.

2. No, the prince who shall come was not Jesus, nor Titus. The prince who shall come will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

3. The beast king is the 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire. The same person before then, for a period of around 3yrs, will be the King of Israel, perceived messiah to the Jews.

4. All is near future.

TribulationSigns · Jul 8, 2023

You guys…

David Kent · Jul 9, 2023

Douggg said:
1. The EU is 27 nations. The ten leaders are a group of ten EU individuals - not ten nations.

2. No, the prince who shall come was not Jesus, nor Titus. The prince who shall come will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

3. The beast king is the 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire. The same person before then, for a period of around 3yrs, will be the King of Israel, perceived messiah to the Jews.

4. All is near future.

Nonsense.

The prophecy is about the Messiah, not the Antichrist who has nothing to do with the Jews as he is mission is to persecute Christian believers. Revelation 7:13-17

David Kent · Jul 14, 2023

Douggg said:
David, the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26 comes from the people who destroyed the temple and city (of Jerusalem).

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The little horn and the ten kings associated with him wlll come out of the Romane Empire (the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7:23-24).

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The EEC, European Economic Community came about by the treaty of Rome in 1957. And later in 1992 by the Maastricht became the European Union

The Maasrtrict treaty was rejected by voters in various countries, France Denmark, Netherlands, and Ireland. The EU then changed the treaty slightly and called it the Lisbon treaty. Ireland was the last to vote and as they had already defeated Maastricht, they said Ireland must vote again and often till they get the fight answer. The is EU democracy.

The EU Parliament has practically no powers other than passing legislation given up them by the EU Council. The Parliament is given a voting paper with only one name on it, and two boxes for and against. Just like the USSR, that is why some call it the EUSSR.

The EU will fail, just as all other attempts to unite them under the papacy. They will never stick together for long, Daniel 2.

Who's who of Revelation 17

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