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Marriage collapse, absent fathers 'unraveling' Christianity in growing US crisis: study

Andrewn

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A new report by Pew Research Center and the General Social Survey published Tuesday found a surge of adults leaving Christianity to become atheist, agnostic or "nothing in particular." It predicted that if the number of Christians under 30 abandoning their faith accelerates beyond the current pace, adherents of the historically dominant religion of the U.S. could become a minority by 2045.

Noting how approximately 90% of Americans identified as Christians in the early 1990s, the study observed that number, which includes children, had fallen to only 64% by 2020. The number of people in the U.S. who identify as religiously unaffiliated, meanwhile, skyrocketed from 16% in 2007 to 29% in 2020, the research showed. Other religions such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, accounted for approximately 6% in 2020.

 
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Halbhh

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A new report by Pew Research Center and the General Social Survey published Tuesday found a surge of adults leaving Christianity to become atheist, agnostic or "nothing in particular." It predicted that if the number of Christians under 30 abandoning their faith accelerates beyond the current pace, adherents of the historically dominant religion of the U.S. could become a minority by 2045.

Noting how approximately 90% of Americans identified as Christians in the early 1990s, the study observed that number, which includes children, had fallen to only 64% by 2020. The number of people in the U.S. who identify as religiously unaffiliated, meanwhile, skyrocketed from 16% in 2007 to 29% in 2020, the research showed. Other religions such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, accounted for approximately 6% in 2020.

Many that leave permanently (instead of simply pausing and then later joining another church, as very many do after they finally have small children, coming back after 10 or more years away) -- I think (for good reasons below) that most that leave permanently actually never actually believed to begin with -- and I'm not guessing, but I learned this from face to face conversations.

I used to routinely after every service for years and years, as we traveled around the country visiting relatives and friends and went to Sunday services, and as I stayed at places for the summer and went to those services, etc. -- I would go immediate after a service to some random stranger, smile at them, and ask them what they thought about the sermon, and then next I'd ask them if they thought Jesus really healed a blind man (or raised the dead, or other miracles)....

In many different denominations, different cities... dozens of churches...

And they would answer.

And I learned back then, about 40 years ago, that many did not believe in any miracles, even by Christ.... (and of course their own children will often follow that lead from their parents of not believing)

See?

The reason they attended back then was because it was socially expected of them.

That's what's changed -- the social expectations. So, today, many of the non believers that would attend in the past, year after year, today many of them don't have a reason to continue attending much, especially the younger ones. Many of the oldest will just continue because after that much time (decades), a church really is their social circle, for real.
 
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Halbhh

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So, I think we are getting closer to the point where the great majority of adults between the age of 20 to 60 are now believers in most churches -- those in that age range attending churches today -- which is a big change from the past 40 and 50 years ago, when many of the adults would not be believers. So attendance is smaller, but the portion that really do believe is much higher.

It may be that the total portion overall of the population that believes isn't really changing that much.... (Why not, despite polling? Because 25 and 40 years ago in a poll, many would answer even that they did believe in God as a proxy answer for their church identification, not wanting their church to seem less prestigious; many would have answered that they believed back then even when they did not).

But, it's not impossible for the portion that believe to change in generations. It did in Israel for instance long ago. So, I'm only saying it's possible it hasn't changed that much, in spite of the polling trend. The bigger trend being to be more honest in polls than in the past.
 
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Andrewn

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I think (for good reasons below) that most that leave permanently actually never actually believed to begin with -- and I'm not guessing, but I learned this from face to face conversations.
If they attended church during childhood, whose fault is it that did not believe?
The reason they attended back then was because it was socially expected of them. That's what's changed -- the social expectations. So, today, many of the non believers that would attend in the past, year after year, today many of them don't have a reason to continue attending much, especially the younger ones.
Many people in the past attended church because of social expectations and fear of hell. Some people now do not find God in the church in spite of actually having spiritual inclinations. How can this be rectified?
So, I think we are getting closer to the point where the great majority of adults between the age of 20 to 60 are now believers in most churches -- those in that age range attending churches today -- which is a big change from the past 40 and 50 years ago, when many of the adults would not be believers. So attendance is smaller, but the portion that really do believe is much higher. It may be that the total portion overall of the population that believes isn't really changing that much....
Is there something in the way the Good News is presented that does not make it sound like good news?

So, I'm only saying it's possible it hasn't changed that much, in spite of the polling trend. The bigger trend being to be more honest in polls than in the past.
How can we make the church relevant to younger generations? Should we just blame the audience and be satisfied that those who continue to attend are real believers/
 
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A new report by Pew Research Center and the General Social Survey published Tuesday found a surge of adults leaving Christianity to become atheist, agnostic or "nothing in particular." It predicted that if the number of Christians under 30 abandoning their faith accelerates beyond the current pace, adherents of the historically dominant religion of the U.S. could become a minority by 2045.

Noting how approximately 90% of Americans identified as Christians in the early 1990s, the study observed that number, which includes children, had fallen to only 64% by 2020. The number of people in the U.S. who identify as religiously unaffiliated, meanwhile, skyrocketed from 16% in 2007 to 29% in 2020, the research showed. Other religions such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, accounted for approximately 6% in 2020.

This is not a new problem. But it is a problem that North American Christians have not wanted to address, because it is not wonderful and emotionally pleasing and inspiring....

The Christian moral/ethical system strongly promotes, and protects, godly marriage. It is a foundational institution, in the Church.

Many subcultures in America, have increasingly abandoned lifelong marriage relationships. This has damaged the stable home unit, and the environment in which children are raised. As long as a "family" is called a mother, her biological children, and the currently live-in boyfriend, there is no Christian family structure.

Some have already noted that the Millenial Christian women, have had a hard time finding mature Christian men their own age. The Millenials are the first "electronic-screen generation, and their stunted emotional development, and damaged critical thinking skills, are becoming more and more well documented. The correlation of the electronic screen generations, with the collapse of Christian marriage, will become more and more well documented.

I don't think that we should be simplistic as to the causes. I assert that catechism has failed terribly, in the last 4 generations, in Christian congregations. Then, American culture has moved from favoring Christianity, to actively disfavoring Christianity. The social justice movement has increasingly abandoned any Christian foundation for their efforts, and now focus on racism, sexism, and the "persecution" of minorities engaged in behavior forbidden by orthodox Christianity. American culture has changed. but also, Christian congregations have NOT been willing to actively teach the orthodox moral/ethical system of the Bible. This includes throwing out vcongregational members who continue to flaunt Christian behavioral requirements. (This includes Jesus' prohibition against divorce-and-remarriage, and Paul's strong statements about heterosexual sex, under any circumstances, creating a lifelong bond that he identifies as the marriage bond).

American Christian congregations have increasingly withdrawn from addressing doctrinal issues that the secular American society easily identifies as racially or sexually discriminating. This includes biblical roles for men and women. And the prohibition of raising children outside of a man-woman marriage unit. Or engaging in recreational sex. Or tolerating single parent families, when that is the choice of the adults involved.

It is not that the collapse of Christian marriage has recently of suddenly happened. Both pagan American culture, and the slovenly approach of Christian congregations toward marriage, have joined together in an alliance of convenience and laziness.
 
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WolfGate

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The Gospel Coalition has a currently releasing podcast season, As In Heaven Season 3, which is spending all season discussing the dechurching in America. I'm finding it to be a fascinating and much more nuanced topic that I intuitively thought it would be.

he third season of the podcast which will have 21 episodes focused on the complex phenomenon of dechurching in America. Our team has spent the last two years working with two of the top sociologists in the country to conduct the most thorough and comprehensive study ever done on this phenomenon. We are excited to help listeners understand why 40M adult Americans left church, under what conditions are they willing to return, and equip you with actionable ideas and tools about how to engage more effectively with them.

Jesus taught us to pray “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” Our prayer is that our spheres of influence would be places that look more like God’s kingdom—where love reigns, humanity flourishes, and Christ is glorified.
 
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Andrewn

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Many subcultures in America, have increasingly abandoned lifelong marriage relationships. This has damaged the stable home unit, and the environment in which children are raised. As long as a "family" is called a mother, her biological children, and the currently live-in boyfriend, there is no Christian family structure.
Lifelong marriage between a virgin husband and a virgin wife is practically non-existent.

Some have already noted that the Millenial Christian women, have had a hard time finding mature Christian men their own age. The Millenials are the first "electronic-screen generation, and their stunted emotional development, and damaged critical thinking skills, are becoming more and more well documented. The correlation of the electronic screen generations, with the collapse of Christian marriage, will become more and more well documented.
It is said that Millennial women no longer seek long-term relationships, neither marriage nor even cohabitation.

I don't think that we should be simplistic as to the causes. I assert that catechism has failed terribly, in the last 4 generations, in Christian congregations.
Is it because Christian congregations have insisted on reading morality in the Bible selectively? According to the Bible, certain sinners should be killed, a woman who is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death, and a woman who is raped in a city should be considered an adulteress because had she screamed, someone would have saved her. No one advocates that these ancient rules should be followed. On the other hand, the Bible supports slavery and says absolutely nothing about pedophilia and "infanticide," the killing of unwanted babies, which was common throughout the Roman Empire and other parts of the ancient world.

But the Church continues to claim that "abortion" and "homosexual behavior" and "social justice" are against the Bible while "capital punishment" is biblical. And for the longest time it persecuted witches and prohibited divorce. I'm not saying that abortion or homosexuality or divorce or cohabitation are Biblical. These are different discussions. I'm only saying that the Church has engaged in "selective" reading and preaching of the Bible. Picking and choosing has made Church teaching and preaching suspect at the very least. (I know that Catholics promote "social justice" and are against "capital punishment." But since you are Catholic, let's add masturbation and birth control to the sins condemned by the Church.)

The social justice movement has increasingly abandoned any Christian foundation for their efforts, and now focus on racism, sexism, and the "persecution" of minorities engaged in behavior forbidden by orthodox Christianity. American culture has changed.
The social justice movement have accomplished a lot of good and it originated from biblical principles. Unfortunately, there are many threads in these CF by Christians who claim that socialism is against the Bible. If Christians are against social justice, God has made the stones promote his justice (Luk 19:40).

but also, Christian congregations have NOT been willing to actively teach the orthodox moral/ethical system of the Bible. This includes throwing out vcongregational members who continue to flaunt Christian behavioral requirements. (This includes Jesus' prohibition against divorce-and-remarriage, and Paul's strong statements about heterosexual sex, under any circumstances, creating a lifelong bond that he identifies as the marriage bond). American Christian congregations have increasingly withdrawn from addressing doctrinal issues that the secular American society easily identifies as racially or sexually discriminating. This includes biblical roles for men and women. And the prohibition of raising children outside of a man-woman marriage unit. Or engaging in recreational sex. Or tolerating single parent families, when that is the choice of the adults involved.
We don't have to worry about this. Millennials have already left the Church :). There are not too many people left to throw out.

It is not that the collapse of Christian marriage has recently of suddenly happened. Both pagan American culture, and the slovenly approach of Christian congregations toward marriage, have joined together in an alliance of convenience and laziness.
The question is how to change this situation into a challenge, an opportunity to reinvent Christianity in a way that does not throw the Baby with the bath water. Christianity offers Christ and his extremely necessary salvation. Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular have been successful in adopting ancient pagan culture to the Good News of Jesus. Are we able to do the same at the present time under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
 
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But the Church continues to claim that "abortion" and "homosexual behavior" and "social justice" are against the Bible while "capital punishment" is biblical. And for the longest time it persecuted witches and prohibited divorce. I'm not saying that abortion or homosexuality or divorce or cohabitation are Biblical. These are different discussions. I'm only saying that the Church has engaged in "selective" reading and preaching of the Bible. Picking and choosing has made Church teaching and preaching suspect at the very least. (I know that Catholics promote "social justice" and are against "capital punishment."
Persecuting witches was mostly a Protestant thing, and the Catholic Church is against divorce because Jesus taught against divorce. I don't know of anyone who does not have a selective reading and preaching of the Bible, this does not make the Church "suspect.." Realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. The Catholic Church chose the 73 book of the Bible.
 
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Valletta

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Persecuting witches was mostly a Protestant thing, and the Catholic Church is against divorce because Jesus taught against divorce. I don't know of anyone who does not have a selective reading and preaching of the Bible, this does not make the Church "suspect.." Realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. The Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible.
 
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Andrewn

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Persecuting witches was mostly a Protestant thing, and the Catholic Church is against divorce because Jesus taught against divorce. I don't know of anyone who does not have a selective reading and preaching of the Bible, this does not make the Church "suspect.." Realize that the Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. The Catholic Church chose the 73 book of the Bible.
Certain things may have been prohibited more prominently in Protestant or Catholic Churches. But this thread is not about Catholics vs Protestants. It is about Christian congregations, in general, losing parishioners. The question is whether it is possible for Christian churches to attract people to the salvation offered by Christ: to make the Good News relevant in our culture.
 
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Andrewn

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They aren't bombarded 24 hours a day with woke and anti-Christian propaganda, and they don't have educational systems that have been imparting Marxist and atheist philosophies for generations. It takes courage and serious effort to remain a mainstream Christian in America.
You blame the culture rather than the Church.

I have little doubt that orthodox Christianity will continue to dwindle in America, with even those who identify as Christian increasingly representing a woke, New Age counterfeit Christianity. Fine, it's what the Bible says will happen.
You have a pessimistic message without any hope of salvation. I hope your assessment is wrong.

Weirdly, when I was in school during the Jesus Freak era, many thought Christianity was exploding in popularity. Alas, that was about three generations ago - just before the educational system went full-tilt Marxist.
If I were a pastor and < 40 y/o, I'd be looking for a different career!
 
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friend of

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You blame the culture rather than the Church
It is the culture that's to blame also. Why do you think so many people in the US are turning away from Christianity in droves? It's because of all the distractions and self indulgences and self absorbtion. People today are obsessed with entertainment and have been blinded to the importance of spirituality and spiritual things. That's the fault of how our western culture has shifted. We are on the cusp of the great falling away spoken of in 1 Thess 5
 
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Andrewn

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Well, no, actually I blame the supernatural evil that I believe is driving the culture. I blame the culture for allowing itself to be influenced by supernatural evil

It is the culture that's to blame also. Why do you think so many people in the US are turning away from Christianity in droves? It's because of all the distractions and self indulgences and self absorbtion. People today are obsessed with entertainment and have been blinded to the importance of spirituality and spiritual things. That's the fault of how our western culture has shifted.
It is not my nature to blame others and feel like a helpless victim. Although you make good points, consider the culture in the 1st century. Back then, they had entertainment in Pagan temples, cheap food, and sex for all. Proclaiming to be a Christian, one would lose his social status, his money and property may be confiscated, and he may be tortured and killed. It is not this bad in the US and Canada, thank God.

The way I see it is that if my job becomes obsolete, it is my fault for not upgrading my skills. I don't mean to increase the level of entertainment in the church or to turn it into a social club. I mean to present the real and true Gospel without unnecessary baggage.

I blame the church to the extent it is conforming to the culture and supernatural evil.
Could you explain this statement further?

I would say Jesus' description of the End Times is distinctly pessimistic. I believe we are in some stage of the End Times. There is always hope for salvation at the individual level, but the End Times message is not one of glorious revival.

We are on the cusp of the great falling away spoken of in 1 Thess 5
You both agree about this, and you are probably right. But this expectation should not hamper the present work.

If I were a pastor of any age, I wouldn't look at being a pastor as a "career." I would look at it as a calling and a mission. I would do my best to continue to preach and counsel the orthodox Gospel even if my church dwindled to three members and the New Age Feel-Good Church of Woke Christianity across the street had to build a stadium to accommodate its 40,000 members.
Yes, perhaps the pastor should not depend on getting a salary from the church but rather has a different source of income/career. I think Mormons already do this.

I can guess whom you have in mind when mentioning the 40,000-member New Age Feel-Good Church :). He will have to meet God one day.
 
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friend of

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Back then, they had entertainment in Pagan temples and sex for all
We have so much more entertainment options today though. Like so much more. The difference is that we have technology that is accessible at the flick of the wrist. The internet provides inexhaustible entertainment/information and it's not easy to put down. Our world has adapted to a lifestyle that promotes using technology nonstop. At least back then they had to physically go out and find someone to have sex with to be entertained, and this may have taken effort. Today we have access to pornography and other things that would have been unheard of back then.
 
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Andrewn

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My guess is that the younger generations just don't want much to do with Christianity no matter how hip it tries to be. Probably they are insightful enough to see the essential phoniness.
Yes, this is a good point. In message #7, I wrote, "I'm only saying that the Church has engaged in "selective" reading and preaching of the Bible. Picking and choosing has made Church teaching and preaching suspect at the very least."

I say several times a week that I'm glad I'm as old as I am and not some 25-year-old who is going to have to navigate the world as it is now and is likely to become over the next 50 years ("If Jesus tarries," as evangelical preachers love to say :)).
Ditto :cool: .
 
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Halbhh

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This is not a new problem. But it is a problem that North American Christians have not wanted to address, because it is not wonderful and emotionally pleasing and inspiring....

The Christian moral/ethical system strongly promotes, and protects, godly marriage. It is a foundational institution, in the Church.

Many subcultures in America, have increasingly abandoned lifelong marriage relationships. This has damaged the stable home unit, and the environment in which children are raised. As long as a "family" is called a mother, her biological children, and the currently live-in boyfriend, there is no Christian family structure.

Some have already noted that the Millenial Christian women, have had a hard time finding mature Christian men their own age. The Millenials are the first "electronic-screen generation, and their stunted emotional development, and damaged critical thinking skills, are becoming more and more well documented. The correlation of the electronic screen generations, with the collapse of Christian marriage, will become more and more well documented.

I don't think that we should be simplistic as to the causes. I assert that catechism has failed terribly, in the last 4 generations, in Christian congregations. Then, American culture has moved from favoring Christianity, to actively disfavoring Christianity. The social justice movement has increasingly abandoned any Christian foundation for their efforts, and now focus on racism, sexism, and the "persecution" of minorities engaged in behavior forbidden by orthodox Christianity. American culture has changed. but also, Christian congregations have NOT been willing to actively teach the orthodox moral/ethical system of the Bible. This includes throwing out vcongregational members who continue to flaunt Christian behavioral requirements. (This includes Jesus' prohibition against divorce-and-remarriage, and Paul's strong statements about heterosexual sex, under any circumstances, creating a lifelong bond that he identifies as the marriage bond).

American Christian congregations have increasingly withdrawn from addressing doctrinal issues that the secular American society easily identifies as racially or sexually discriminating. This includes biblical roles for men and women. And the prohibition of raising children outside of a man-woman marriage unit. Or engaging in recreational sex. Or tolerating single parent families, when that is the choice of the adults involved.

It is not that the collapse of Christian marriage has recently of suddenly happened. Both pagan American culture, and the slovenly approach of Christian congregations toward marriage, have joined together in an alliance of convenience and laziness.
Traditional marriage (a very good thing) isn't the real reason people have faith or a lack of faith though, life experience suggests. Historically many cultures and countries have had pretty much exclusively traditional marriage and at the same time very little Christianity or faith in God.

Since many of the lost have never heard the good news about Christ, that is really the answer for them -- what they most need to hear.
 
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DragonFox91

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Nonbelievers try to grow up too fast & their children are born into bad situations. Believers too. It’s a problem.

As a single Christian man who’d love to get married & tried to do it right, it’s tough seeing people do it wrong & just escalating the problem.

My generation left the church b/c life’s pleasures are too appealing. It's really as simple as that.

I hate to say it, but ‘teaching the Bible is wrong on creation’ leads down a road that can’t be recovered from. “If the Bible’s wrong on creation, then maybe Jesus is wrong……..”.

People are so dumb tho! They don’t believe in Jesus’s miracles b/c people can’t do that. It’s like ‘duh, that’s why it’s a miracle!'

There may be people who say they’re believers that say “I don’t need to join a church”, & that eventually becomes “I don’t need God”

I hate to say it, but it's all slippery slopes. Man keeps falling for sin

I do like the idea there were a lot of ‘false’ Christians & the number overall is staying stagnant or will be revived. A lot of people think churches that sway on issues die, while churches that remain True continue to grow.
 
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Halbhh

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If they attended church during childhood, whose fault is it that did not believe?

Many people in the past attended church because of social expectations and fear of hell. Some people now do not find God in the church in spite of actually having spiritual inclinations. How can this be rectified?

Is there something in the way the Good News is presented that does not make it sound like good news?


How can we make the church relevant to younger generations? Should we just blame the audience and be satisfied that those who continue to attend are real believers/
Well, I think that too often in many churches the gospel itself wasn't preached often enough -- the good news about the amazing gift of salvation from God when we turn in faith to Christ Jesus for the redemption from our sins. I think a church needs to periodically proclaim this amazing good news, even though most in the congregation will not need to hear it on a given day, because some few might! That in a moment we cannot predict, someone in the pews is ready to hear it truly for the first time, and begin to have saving faith.

Even though not all will endure: Mark 4 NIV -- some will grow in faith over time, and will flourish.
 
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DragonFox91

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It’s a lot of the parent’s fault yes. I know many parents were told not to teach their kids Christianity b/c they didn’t want to be accused of indoctrinating them. The reality is, they were being indoctrinated, but by the world.

Parents: Don’t be scared of teaching your kids Christianity! & find out what questions they might have & try to find the answers now!
 
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Andrewn

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My generation left the church b/c life’s pleasures are too appealing. It's really as simple as that.
I suspected that that was the case. In addition to churches emphasis on sexual sin almost to the exclusion of other sins. How often do we hear ministers talk about envy, greed, gluttony, etc? They just love to talk about sexual sin as if it were the only basis of salvation rather than the love of God and others.

I hate to say it, but ‘teaching the Bible is wrong on creation’ leads down a road that can’t be recovered from. “If the Bible’s wrong on creation, then maybe Jesus is wrong……..”.
We can't teach that the Bible is right on creation. This would immediately alienate educated people. But we don't teach the Bible is wrong either. After all it was written to primitive people with primitive scientific understanding.

There may be people who say they’re believers that say “I don’t need to join a church”, & that eventually becomes “I don’t need God”
Especially if the church constantly talks about sexual sin and a vengeful God who is about to throw you out in hell forever.

A lot of people think churches that sway on issues die, while churches that remain True continue to grow.
As a young person, what is your view about this? I'm actually interested in the views of young people about all that I wrote. And in this subject in general.
It’s a lot of the parent’s fault yes. I know many parents were told not to teach their kids Christianity b/c they didn’t want to be accused of indoctrinating them. The reality is, they were being indoctrinated, but by the world.
Once upon a time, when people believed in infant baptism, the parents (or grandparents) were designated as godparents, promising to bring up the infant in the knowledge and respect of God.
 
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