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Muslim parents peak out against LGBTQ books in schools

Always in His Presence

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Muslim families are raising their political profiles as they join the parental rights debate, most recently in Montgomery County, Maryland, where the school district has approved a host of books on homosexuality and transgenderism for the pre-K 5 curriculum and removed an opt-out choice
 

rambot

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It's been said 1000 times.
If Republicans didn't CONSTANTLY give the impression that they did not like minorities, you'd have complete control of America. Because SOOOO many immigrants ideologically align with the right side of the spectrum.
But that's a sidebar.

I disagree with this and I think ALL children should be exposed to homosexual characters at ALL ages. Nobody should feel ashamed about something they don't have control over. To suggest that a 9 year old can't grasp that idea is preposterous. The whole position and all of the positions that are simultaneously held about safety in the classroom and LGBTQ individuals are directly contradictory.

You'd think they'd be talking about bringing GUNS into a classroom but no. They're talking about a child saying he likes to dress up and do dance routines.
 
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Always in His Presence

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I disagree with this and I think ALL children should be exposed to homosexual characters at ALL ages.
You have every right to your opinion and if you were in the US, our constitution would back up your right to says so.

That same constitution gives Christians, Muslims and conservatives et al the right to say children should NOT be exposed to homosexual characters at any age. While your beliefs support it - ours do not.

Additionally, in the US there are laws that speak specifically about Corrupting the morals of a minor - exposing a minor to sexually explicit material. The law has rather harsh penalties associated with it, including being placed on a national database for sex offenders.

The challenge is the ability to live together in peace.
 
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rambot

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You have every right to your opinion and if you were in the US, our constitution would back up your right to says so.

That same constitution gives Christians, Muslims and conservatives et al the right to say children should NOT be exposed to homosexual characters at any age. While your beliefs support it - ours do not.
That is CATEGORICALLY false. Your beliefs don't say ANYTHING about reading a book with a gay character in it. Nothing. It says NOTHING about it. at ALL.
So perhaps we can stop dragging your faith into something so base as "you cannot even talk about homosexuals". That's ludicrous.


You have your preferences, but let's not conflate that with part of your spiritual belief.


Additionally, in the US there are laws that speak specifically about Corrupting the morals of a minor - exposing a minor to sexually explicit material. The law has rather harsh penalties associated with it, including being placed on a national database for sex offenders.
1) You are going to help me understand that actually. I cannot fathom the incapacity of a parent that could not be able to handle their own child being taught that gay characters exist. If you cannot deal with your child even HEARING about a gay character in a book, you are broken as a parent.
2) "Little Billy turned to James and said 'I really like you" as he put his hand on his leg. The problem is that some lunatics are going to call that sexually explicit.
Folks are calling Michaelangelo's David "sexually explicit". People think breastfeeding is "sexually explicit".
You are NEVER going to convince me that there is a parenting body that espouses the interest of "protecting children" that has a nuanced and appropriate view of whta "sexually explicit" even means.


The challenge is the ability to live together in peace.
If you continually silence a population, help me understand who is living in peace and what that peace REALLY means?

If you ignore and push a whole group of your society off to the side, how are you HELPING to conserve the peace that you seem to think is a "challenge" to live by?
 
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Always in His Presence

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That is CATEGORICALLY false. Your beliefs don't say ANYTHING about reading a book with a gay character in it. Nothing. It says NOTHING about it. at ALL.
Sure it does - Exposing children to homosexuality - or sexuality in general can include reading books even to the extreme like Gender Queer
So perhaps we can stop dragging your faith into something so base as "you cannot even talk about homosexuals". That's ludicrous.
My faith and I are inseparable - I never said we cannot talk about homosexuals. I said children should not be exposed to Homosexuality or even sexuality - that is not the schools job.
You have your preferences, but let's not conflate that with part of your spiritual belief.
My preferences and my spiritual beliefs are 100% the same. They are inseparable. My faith forms my beliefs and actions.
1) You are going to help me understand that actually.
I hope that helps you understand that - actually
I cannot fathom the incapacity of a parent that could not be able to handle their own child being taught that gay characters exist. If you cannot deal with your child even HEARING about a gay character in a book, you are broken as a parent.
As I cannot fathom the incapacity of a parent that could not and would not protect their child's modesty and sexual well being - A person who does not protect their child is an earmark broken parent.
2) "Little Billy turned to James and said 'I really like you" as he put his hand on his leg. The problem is that some lunatics are going to call that sexually explicit.
Who - where? Over dramatization of an issue does not make good debate.
Folks are calling Michaelangelo's David "sexually explicit". People think breastfeeding is "sexually explicit".
You are NEVER going to convince me that there is a parenting body that espouses the interest of "protecting children" that has a nuanced and appropriate view of whta "sexually explicit" even means.
Then there is no real reason to debate. If one side is completely closed, it is a futile discussio


If you continually silence a population, help me understand who is living in peace and what that peace REALLY means?
The reader will note that I began this discussion stating your had the right to say what you believe. I'm trying to silence no one.

It really is no different with parents who do not want the Gospel preached to their children. Neither side wants the other to have undue influence over their children.


rambot said:
If you ignore and push a whole group of your society off to the side, how are you HELPING to conserve the peace that you seem to think is a "challenge" to live by?

Who is saying push someone to the side? I am saying live side by side, not jamming ones beliefs down the throats of a person who doesn't believe the same as you. It's called being tolerant.

Because I do not believe the same as you, does not mean I am trying to silence you.
 
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Sabri

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The Bible mentions a group that won’t inherit the kingdom of heaven “effeminate” homosexuals (1 Cor 6 9-10) If you are a Christian and teach your child your beliefs then you would not want a teacher saying anything to contradict the home training you provide to your child. Also, because the parent isn’t present the teacher can say things that’s viewed as persuasive or encouraging the behavior. It’s more than just reading a book. Teachers give their views and opinions when teaching any subject. Parents -Christians and Muslims have the right not to want their child to be exposed to something they feel is detrimental to their child’s growth.
 
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The Bible mentions a group that won’t inherit the kingdom of heaven “effeminate” homosexuals (1 Cor 6 9-10) If you are a Christian and teach your child your beliefs then you would not want a teacher saying anything to contradict the home training you provide to your child. Also, because the parent isn’t present the teacher can say things that’s viewed as persuasive or encouraging the behavior. It’s more than just reading a book. Teachers give their views and opinions when teaching any subject. Parents -Christians and Muslims have the right not to want their child to be exposed to something they feel is detrimental to their child’s growth.
Jesus said:
Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.
To whom does Jesus refer here?
 
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Gene2memE

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Muslim families are raising their political profiles as they join the parental rights debate, most recently in Montgomery County, Maryland, where the school district has approved a host of books on homosexuality and transgenderism for the pre-K 5 curriculum and removed an opt-out choice

Oh no, children are being exposed to ideas!
 
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rambot

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Sure it does - Exposing children to homosexuality - or sexuality in general can include reading books even to the extreme like Gender Queer
I can understand an aversion to gender queer. I can't stand an aversion to masterpieces of art. I can't stand aversion to a Disney movie for having a gay character that did what EXACTLY, that was felt to be so aggregious an act on some poor mother's sense of decency?
My faith and I are inseparable - I never said we cannot talk about homosexuals. I said children should not be exposed to Homosexuality or even sexuality - that is not the schools job.
Here's the problem, you are incorrect. Schools JOB is to teach students all manner of factual, proven, reliable information. Including that gay people talk. Gay children and youth say "I like you" to other children.
Ultimately though (my bold) I think I am curious how you would draw this distinction. What would that look like in the classroom?

These are things that occur in the world. This DOES NOT MEAN a child will become gay when they read a gay book?
Please. Oh PLEASE tell me you know that a child reading a gay book won't turn them gay. I BEG of your to give me that much......
My preferences and my spiritual beliefs are 100% the same. They are inseparable. My faith forms my beliefs and actions.
Nah. You have preferences for things like carnival rides, haunted houses, or best pasta. When you refuse to allow any MENTION of homosexuality around a child, well there's no spiritual belief that forbids that. Like, BEYOND none. I have certainly never read a verse.

All that is besides the point that nobody is asking you to become gay...they just want to be gay and treated as someone who is worthy of a conversation.
As I cannot fathom the incapacity of a parent that could not and would not protect their child's modesty and sexual well being - A person who does not protect their child is an earmark broken parent.
Well, I'm not sure who this would be addressing if I'm being honest.


Who - where? Over dramatization of an issue does not make good debate.
Ignorance doesn't either.
Then there is no real reason to debate. If one side is completely closed, it is a futile discussio
I'm not the one closing anything. AntiLGBTQ, or certainly your side of the political spectrum, is 100% against any mention of homosexuality in the classroom. Not all of you, I assume. But dang, the rest of you get really, REALLY quiet when these victorian Handmaids start hounding teachers and principals. So long as you are willing to say you are not up for any shift in that position, then I'd be inclined to agree.
The reader will note that I began this discussion stating your had the right to say what you believe. I'm trying to silence no one.
That may depend, I think, on how you answer my response to the bolded part. I will certainly withdraw that complaint and apologize if it appears that way.
It really is no different with parents who do not want the Gospel preached to their children. Neither side wants the other to have undue influence over their children.
If you don't understand homosexuality at ALL, sure, I'd agree that is a totally fair comparison.
Who is saying push someone to the side? I am saying live side by side, not jamming ones beliefs down the throats of a person who doesn't believe the same as you. It's called being tolerant.
I'm wondering if you stepped outside of your boundaries for a sec and looked from where I'm standing.
You are refusing to allow homosexuality to be discussed in schools. And THIS is "called being tolerant".
Can you see how that, at least on the surface, sounds kind of silly?

Because I do not believe the same as you, does not mean I am trying to silence you.
Perhaps I need to understand your point better then.
 
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rambot

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The Bible mentions a group that won’t inherit the kingdom of heaven “effeminate” homosexuals (1 Cor 6 9-10) If you are a Christian and teach your child your beliefs then you would not want a teacher saying anything to contradict the home training you provide to your child. Also, because the parent isn’t present the teacher can say things that’s viewed as persuasive or encouraging the behavior. It’s more than just reading a book.

When is the last time a book of children's fiction irreversibly changed the course of your life?

Also, how would you like teachers to teach children about how to interact with homosexuals, by the way? Should they be reading bible verses to them? Beating them? Judging them? Ostracizing them?
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Also, how would you like teachers to teach children about how to interact with homosexuals, by the way? Should they be reading bible verses to them? Beating them? Judging them? Ostracizing them?
"Pretending they don't exist" seems to be the favored method at the moment.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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rambot said:
2) "Little Billy turned to James and said 'I really like you" as he put his hand on his leg. The problem is that some lunatics are going to call that sexually explicit.
In the US, if little Billy turned to little anybody, said 'I really like you" as he put his hand on their leg" he would be expelled for sexual harassment.
I have a distant family member who while in middle school was told that if you liked someone of the same sex, that was ok. So she decided she did, kissed the girl next to her, and was expelled.
 
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In the US, if little Billy turned to little anybody, said 'I really like you" as he put his hand on their leg" he would be expelled for sexual harassment.
I have a distant family member who while in middle school was told that if you liked someone of the same sex, that was ok. So she decided she did, kissed the girl next to her, and was expelled.
If the kissing wasn’t a consensual act then that would have been frowned upon, yes.
 
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rambot

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In the US, if little Billy turned to little anybody, said 'I really like you" as he put his hand on their leg" he would be expelled for sexual harassment.
I have a distant family member who while in middle school was told that if you liked someone of the same sex, that was ok. So she decided she did, kissed the girl next to her, and was expelled.
If the kiss was consensual, why would she be expelled? And would the other girl have motivation (ie....community pressure) to deny.
 
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USincognito

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In the US, if little Billy turned to little anybody, said 'I really like you" as he put his hand on their leg" he would be expelled for sexual harassment.
Are people supposed to actually believe hyperbole like this?
I have a distant family member who while in middle school was told that if you liked someone of the same sex, that was ok. So she decided she did, kissed the girl next to her, and was expelled.
It's fascinating how so many Internet conservatives know someone who literally experienced what amounts to the latest right wing talking point.
 
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Sabri

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When is the last time a book of children's fiction irreversibly changed the course of your life?

Also, how would you like teachers to teach children about how to interact with homosexuals, by the way? Should they be reading bible verses to them? Beating them? Judging them? Ostracizing them?
To whom does Jesus refer here?
Jesus is responding to the disciples in regards to marriage. The disciples say to Jesus maybe it’s better not to marry. Then Jesus recites the passage above informing the disciples that’s hard for anyone except in regards to marriage. Then he discusses people who were eunuchs and not able to marry. Some we’re eunuchs because of man made- castration, naturally made that way by birth, and others gave themselves to the kingdoms of heaven by making their priority to serve in Gods house rather than seeking a family and wife.
 
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Sabri

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When is the last time a book of children's fiction irreversibly changed the course of your life?

Also, how would you like teachers to teach children about how to interact with homosexuals, by the way? Should they be reading bible verses to them? Beating them? Judging them? Ostracizing them?
Books are words. Words have power. Life and death dwells in the power of the tongue. The thinking that words will not affect a child is erroneous. Teachers are not supposed to shape a child regarding their sexuality. That’s for the child’s parents. Children have natural affections which do not need anyone to shape. Teachers are supposed to assist parents in math reading writing social studies. They cross the line when they start discussing or inferring reproduction or sexuality. These are subjects that parents have and still will shape for their offspring.
 
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Sabri

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"Pretending they don't exist" seems to be the favored method at the moment.
It’s not for the teacher to pretend or not to pretend. It’s not for the teacher to address the issue at all. Teachers are tasked with assisting parents with teaching children about reading math social studies. When have you heard a teacher say I specialize in sexuality studies? Never? I have heard teachers say they specialize in math, or reading. Even Physical education. So, why would a parent enlist someone with no degree or special knowledge in the field to teach their child something they know nothing about outside of their own lives experience or opinion. Nonsensical. It’s like getting a homeless man to teach someone about finances.
 
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rambot

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Books are words. Words have power. Life and death dwells in the power of the tongue. The thinking that words will not affect a child is erroneous.
Great then I'm sure you'll be able to show many examples in your own life.


Or you could find a scientific study that clearly shows reading a book about gay penguins is destined to turn a kid gay; I'd accept that too.
 
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