USA (A Modern Day Babylon)

Saint Jared Bell · May 2, 2023

USA is on the fast track to following Satan. We must remember the kingdom is not of this world. That being said USA still has time to repent of sin and turn away from embracing the Satanic system of socialism and communism before it is struck down with China and the rest.

Wings like Eagles · May 2, 2023

Blade · May 2, 2023

Well not true but.. one can believe what one wants. Are the blind seeing deaf hearing lame walking dead rise? Yes.. are thousand being saved every day just in the USA? Yes... What you talk about has been going on since this nation started.. Gods not dead and they made a convent with God that man may break but God will never break

ViaCrucis · May 6, 2023

Saint Jared Bell said:
USA is on the fast track to following Satan. We must remember the kingdom is not of this world. That being said USA still has time to repent of sin and turn away from embracing the Satanic system of socialism and communism before it is struck down with China and the rest.

What about the satanic system of capitalism?

-CryptoLutheran

Saint Jared Bell · May 7, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
What about the satanic system of capitalism?

-CryptoLutheran

Capitalism can be used for righteousness as well as unrighteousness, just like money. It is not written that Money is the root of all kinds of evil, however it is written the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and by craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains. So it is as well with capitalism.

ViaCrucis · May 8, 2023

Saint Jared Bell said:
Capitalism can be used for righteousness as well as unrighteousness, just like money. It is not written that Money is the root of all kinds of evil, however it is written the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and by craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains. So it is as well with capitalism.

Got it. Socialism is evil, capitalism good.

-CryptoLutheran

Saint Jared Bell · May 8, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
Got it. Socialism is evil, capitalism good.

-CryptoLutheran

If you really sit down and research it yes you'll find there's something very evil about socialism [Communism with a fancy name]. You'll find that socialism is a stepping stone to communism as it is seen in China it's like getting into an area of quicksand until it fully engulfs you and suffocates the life out of you.

PsaltiChrysostom · May 8, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
Got it. Socialism is evil, capitalism good.

-CryptoLutheran

Hey, Bezos is building a $75M "support yacht" for a helipad for his main $500M yacht.

And here I don't have even my first yacht.

ViaCrucis · May 8, 2023

Saint Jared Bell said:
If you really sit down and research it yes you'll find there's something very evil about socialism [Communism with a fancy name]. You'll find that socialism is a stepping stone to communism as it is seen in China it's like getting into an area of quicksand until it fully engulfs you and suffocates the life out of you.

This simply reads as socialism is bad because Chinese authoritarianism claims to be communist. What's missing here are pertinent questions: Was Maoism actually communist or socialist in the first place? Is modern China communist in substance or name only?

And it ultimately boils down to simple genetic fallacy.

And then there's this: If one system can be demonized for what it can look like in its worst expressions and in its abuses, but another system cannot, that is nothing other than a double standard.

If socialism can be demonized purely for the worst things done in the name of socialism, then the same standard can be applied to capitalism. Yet that standard is not applied, instead, appeal is made to an idealized capitalism that could exist and thus, capitalism must be good (ignoring real world abuses and evils); meanwhile the same cannot be done to socialism.

Now I want to be clear: I'm not a Marxist. I believe there are fundamental pitfalls to Marx's ideas; socialist or communist utopianism is an unattainable reality if for no other reason than because human beings are sinful. In the idealized society for Marx the state is completely abolished and all things are common property--the problem with that is power abhors a vacuum. The creation of a state-less society is impossible insofar as there are human beings in the world who desire more--more wealth, more things, more power; and especially when those same human beings lack scruples and are willing to acquire these things through acts of violence and exploitation.

That's how you get Stalin, Mao, etc.

On the other hand, I believe capitalism is impossible to separate from human greed. For capitalism to function it needs to be tightly regulated, because unregulated capitalism simply abounds within the flesh, it is hedonistic and is unfettered in its delight of the base and fallen passions of the flesh. Where more is itself called virtue.

Where pure socialism fails because it underestimates the human capacity for evil; capitalism fails because it thrives in the human capacity for evil. Capitalism depends on human beings being depraved, and thrives within that.

So I find it a very strange thing for a Christian to demonize socialism for its evils (real or potential) but then praise capitalism when it is equally evil, and is so seemingly by design.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · May 8, 2023

PsaltiChrysostom said:
Hey, Bezos is building a $75M "support yacht" for a helipad for his main $500M yacht.

And here I don't have even my first yacht.

Don't worry though. Because he "earned" it.

-CryptoLutheran

Eschatologist · May 8, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
What about the satanic system of capitalism?

-CryptoLutheran

Capitalism in the free market form isn't bad, although the version that exists in most countries (including ours) is unfortunately state capitalism. It wasn't always like this in the US, but it's become that way since the early 1900s.

So, state capitalism is surely satanic.

Eschatologist · May 8, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
This simply reads as socialism is bad because Chinese authoritarianism claims to be communist. What's missing here are pertinent questions: Was Maoism actually communist or socialist in the first place? Is modern China communist in substance or name only?

And it ultimately boils down to simple genetic fallacy.

And then there's this: If one system can be demonized for what it can look like in its worst expressions and in its abuses, but another system cannot, that is nothing other than a double standard.

If socialism can be demonized purely for the worst things done in the name of socialism, then the same standard can be applied to capitalism. Yet that standard is not applied, instead, appeal is made to an idealized capitalism that could exist and thus, capitalism must be good (ignoring real world abuses and evils); meanwhile the same cannot be done to socialism.

Now I want to be clear: I'm not a Marxist. I believe there are fundamental pitfalls to Marx's ideas; socialist or communist utopianism is an unattainable reality if for no other reason than because human beings are sinful. In the idealized society for Marx the state is completely abolished and all things are common property--the problem with that is power abhors a vacuum. The creation of a state-less society is impossible insofar as there are human beings in the world who desire more--more wealth, more things, more power; and especially when those same human beings lack scruples and are willing to acquire these things through acts of violence and exploitation.

That's how you get Stalin, Mao, etc.

On the other hand, I believe capitalism is impossible to separate from human greed. For capitalism to function it needs to be tightly regulated, because unregulated capitalism simply abounds within the flesh, it is hedonistic and is unfettered in its delight of the base and fallen passions of the flesh. Where more is itself called virtue.

Where pure socialism fails because it underestimates the human capacity for evil; capitalism fails because it thrives in the human capacity for evil. Capitalism depends on human beings being depraved, and thrives within that.

So I find it a very strange thing for a Christian to demonize socialism for its evils (real or potential) but then praise capitalism when it is equally evil, and is so seemingly by design.

-CryptoLutheran

Socialism or Communism always turns into an authoritarian dystopia. There isn't a single example of a modern country that has gone down this path without becoming like that. At best, you can point to certain communities that manage to sort of implement a functional socialism (like Rojava), but that's about it.

Capitalism at least avoids becoming like that in some cases. Admittedly, a lot of capitalist systems are becoming fascist (as in the collusion of government and industry), but there are still capitalist countries out there that aren't authoritarian at least compared to the socialist/communist ones.

Does capitalism deserve criticism? Sure. The state capitalism that many countries are engaging in is very corrupt. The point, however, is that socialism and Communism offer nothing better than capitalism.

Some regulation can be beneficial to the masses, but the majority of regulation is beneficial to corporate interests and special interests that lobby the government. Plenty of regulations might look like they benefit the working class on the surface, but when lobbyists for the elite are the ones that design regulation, you can't exactly expect the rules to hold them accountable.

Capitalism succeeds because it rewards ambition and innovation. State capitalism is where the problems start, and regulation is often where that first applies. As soon as you give the state power over the market, industrial interests start taking more of an interest in buying politicians. That's where the actual evil is.

Materialism has plenty of ills of its own, but so does statism. The reason why capitalism isn't "equally evil" is because it at least has positive aspects when government doesn't interfere.

Socialism and Communism are largely driven by wealth envy. Granted, you could also call corporate welfare socialism. That's one of the biggest problems with our government. We throw money at the rich in addition to the poor, while the middle class feels most of the economic pain in the form of taxes.

Saint Jared Bell · May 12, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
What about the satanic system of capitalism?

-CryptoLutheran

Remember what the country was like before it really went down hill. In it's early founding years.

RDKirk · May 12, 2023

Saint Jared Bell said:
Remember what the country was like before it really went down hill. In it's early founding years.

Slavery? Genocide? Corporatism from the very start? Every colony was a for-profit venture.

Benjamin Müller · May 12, 2023

Did you know that the name America actually derives from the Hebrew name Ha-Machir and Machir means, a salesman, a.k.a a capitalist.

Ha-Machir -> Americus -> Ameriggo -> America

To be a capitalist is literally in our name.

Oh and the real Machir was a man of war. . . .

So Americans by nation identity are salesmen of war or salesmen who make war. Take your pick, both are correct.

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