More people in the Netherlands giving up on faith: 58% are not religious

That trend seems to be happening in a lot of places.


Even here in the US (which has strong evangelical pockets of the country), the number of people answering "no religion" has nearly doubled between 2007 and now going from 16% to 30%. Similar pattern in Canada. In roughly the same time window, they've gone from 23% to 35%.

I would suspect much of it has to do with the "cycling" of generations. The generations that were more religious are dying off, and getting replaced by less religious younger generations.

The trend seems to be moving faster in certain parts of the world than others. And there's a few factors at play.

1) Certain religions (and certain denominations of religions) carry with them a higher social cost for parting ways with them. That ranges from "uncomfortable conversations at holiday dinners" at the mild end, all the way up to "they'll kill you if you leave the faith or say anything bad about it" at the extreme end.

2) For Christianity in particular, not all denominations of Christianity require the same levels of personal sacrifice and "social inconvenience", if you're a 20 or 30-something, and want to have any social life at all (that's not entirely centered around the church group and church-related social activities), Southern Baptist and Pentecostal churches probably have a harder to hanging on to their millennials than a Lutheran church.

If you live in a society like the Scandinavian society, deciding to be non-religious probably isn't going to get you disinvited from family dinners, they're not going to shun you for it, and the religious denominations of Christianity practiced there are the more laid back ones, so there's not much of a social cost for leaving the faith there.

For people in the US, at lot of people have to weigh and balance the two items I listed above and decide if they want to "go public" with their stance of non-belief, or keep that to themselves and just go through the motions in order to "fit in". And as noted above on bullet point #2, "going through the motions" doesn't require the same level of sacrifice (with regards to what you do outside of church) if you're in a Lutheran or Anglican church as it would if you were in a Southern Baptist church.

I think two trends are converging. Young people loathe patriarchy and authoritarianism.

They are also not joiners, so even the more progressive religious communities are suffering.

If i had to predict, i would say that as they get older they may find the need for real community more important--but patriarchy and authoritarianism won't satisfy theuir spiritual longing.

Those that do not believe in the one that gave His life for them are of the world and cannot see and His word is seems foolish to them.

Well I only looked back to 2002 I think and its never been high over there. 43% do I think. In searching I read how Muslims are finding Jesus like never before. Well He found them. Then reading I only read one place saying "giving up". The rest said not religious.. it makes a difference. If I was asked I would not no I am not religious and I would be counted among the 50%.

As God said in Samuel man only looks at the flesh but God sees the heart. Remember no one else came died for man.

I find it ironic how there are those who thing "religious' means something good.

It was the religious that dragged Jesus to the Cross.

Its smart for young people not to be "religious.' It gives me hope for a true revival.
For.. What God seeks are the 'spiritual.'



Religious people wish to fulfill a requirement that they sense from their culture. But, only will try to fulfill on their own terms to suit their 'religious' flesh. Seeking a religion that their will and flesh can sense having traction with. Not on God's terms which require a changed nature which makes one spiritually alive and aware.

For that reason, breaking away from religion might actually be a healthy sign.

grace and peace ........

GenemZ said:

I find it ironic how there are those who thing "religious' means something good.

It was the religious that dragged Jesus to the Cross.

Its smart for young people not to be "religious.' It gives me hope for a true revival.
For.. What God seeks are the 'spiritual.'

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship ​

the Father in Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the ​

Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in Spirit and in truth.” ​

​

​

John 4:23-24​

Religious people wish to fulfill a requirement that they sense from their culture. But, only will try to fulfill on their own terms to suit their 'religious' flesh. Seeking a religion that their will and flesh can sense having traction with. Not on God's terms which require a changed nature which makes one spiritually alive and aware.

​

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in Spirit and in truth.” ​

For that reason, breaking away from religion might actually be a healthy sign.

grace and peace ........

Click to expand...

James seemed to think religion could at least be good: James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Fantine said:

I think two trends are converging. Young people loathe patriarchy and authoritarianism.

They are also not joiners, so even the more progressive religious communities are suffering.

If i had to predict, i would say that as they get older they may find the need for real community more important--but patriarchy and authoritarianism won't satisfy theuir spiritual longing.

Click to expand...

From what I have seen, there are many young people that are not only quite willing to accept authoritarianism but eager for it as long as the authoritarians are their authoritarians. Forcing others to do and say what one wants is always going to be popular for a percentage of the population. In any event it is not really important how many people are followers of Christ. It is more important that the followers are committed followers and not just giving lip service to something that is expected by the culture. Christianity has always been counter cultural. Even in places where the vast majority of people claimed to be Christians.

Tinker Grey said:

James seemed to think religion could at least be good: James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Click to expand...

That's about the size of it.... Do not wander beyond those fences and your "religion" will be found acceptable.

Religion is all about works. Most of it is disgusting to God.

Spirituality (as Jesus described it) is all about growing closer to God through growing deeper in our understanding of the Father through truth (faith).

essentialsaltes said:

Residents of the Netherlands are continuing to abandon religion, according to research from Statistics Netherlands (CBS) that looked at the beliefs of people aged 15 and up. Non-religious people first emerged as the majority of the population in 2017, and since then they have continued to make up a larger proportion of society. Fewer than 13 percent of people said they regularly attend religious services.

The largest proportion of atheists and non-religious people was found in the 18-25 year age range, with 72.4 percent identifying as such.

The sharpest fall [in religious people] was observed among Roman Catholics. Some 27 percent identified as part of that religion in 2010, falling to 19.8 percent in 2020, and 18.3 percent in 2021. Although the proportion of Catholics has dropped significantly, it still represented the largest single religious group in the Netherlands.

The percentage of people calling themself Protestant fell from 18.0 percent down to 13.6 percent in 2021. During that time, the popularity of Islam also fell from 5.0 percent to 4.6 percent.

The drop in Islam is interesting, since many seem to clutch their pearls about being overrun, but I imagine that difference is around the same size as the limits of the accuracy of the poll.

Click to expand...

As you point out, the .4 percent drop in people of the Netherlands who identify as Islamic is statically insignificant and well within the margin of error. Additionally, how many of those under 15 live in a household that identifies as affiliated with Islam. Before one hand waves away the possibility of a religion becoming the majority religion in any community in the future, one needs to look at birth rates, immigration rates and the commitment to their religion of those now raising children within that community.

Being Christian has become countercultural again in many places. Most of my family was pretty unhappy about it when I became a Christian. None of my friends who are in my age range (millennial) are Christian either.

I have the distinct feeling that most religions are losing followers because young people, generally, want to feel included and want to include others.
There are too many loud Christians that show far too much hate, derision, and sadly, message things that may NOT be those things, in very unflattering ways. If the focus was more on God's love of everyone than on his condemnation "of a certain kind of person", I'd think Christianity would not be haemorraging members.

GenemZ said:

I find it ironic how there are those who thing "religious' means something good.

It was the religious that dragged Jesus to the Cross.

Its smart for young people not to be "religious.' It gives me hope for a true revival.
For.. What God seeks are the 'spiritual.'

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship ​

the Father in Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the ​

Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in Spirit and in truth.” ​

​

​

John 4:23-24​

Religious people wish to fulfill a requirement that they sense from their culture. But, only will try to fulfill on their own terms to suit their 'religious' flesh. Seeking a religion that their will and flesh can sense having traction with. Not on God's terms which require a changed nature which makes one spiritually alive and aware.

​

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in Spirit and in truth.” ​

For that reason, breaking away from religion might actually be a healthy sign.

grace and peace ........

Click to expand...

This would be the case if the majority of the people in the Netherlands were using the definition of religion specific to US evangelicals. I find that idea dubious.

rambot said:

I have the distinct feeling that most religions are losing followers because young people, generally, want to feel included and want to include others.
There are too many loud Christians that show far too much hate, derision, and sadly, message things that may NOT be those things, in very unflattering ways. If the focus was more on God's love of everyone than on his condemnation "of a certain kind of person", I'd think Christianity would not be haemorraging members.

Click to expand...

I don't know that certain denominations' vitriolic rhetoric towards gay people explains all of the "exodus" so to speak. (if that's the certain kind of person you were alluding to)

It would obviously explain why a gay person who grew up in a Southern Baptist household would want to leave the religion, but looking at the overall results, there seems to be other catalysts at play.

For instance, the Lutheran Church, Episcopal Church, and Presbyterian Church all sanction gay marriage and have taken a more accepting stance on the matter. The Presbyterian church started allowing it in 2014 (and approved the ordination of gay people in 2011). Yet, that seemed to have little impact on the trajectory of people leaving their church.




I referenced in my prior post the "social cost" for leaving certain religions (and denominations) and how that plays a role. I think that's a much larger factor.

With many religions, the more people defecting and becoming unaffiliated has something of an exponential effect. As it would seem like for every one or two people who do it, it makes another three for four people comfortable in "going public" with their status as a non-believer as well. It's almost always easier to be the 1,000th person to do something than the 1st or 2nd.



The larger a particular community grows, the more "approachable" it becomes.


There are a few different aspects to how great that social cost is to an individual, one of which being, a person's other group affiliations. The more groups (that are perceived as "good groups" in their community) a person is in the majority in, the seemingly more comfortable they are with being in the minority on other things. Which could be a logical explanation for why Black Americans are only 1/5th as likely to publicly identify as atheist as White Americans. If a person's already in a group that may not be "the most liked" among a large number of people in their area, they're unlikely to do something they perceive as "giving them an additional reason to not like me", or doing something that could ruin one the few links to the "social fabric" of their community they do have.

rambot said:

I have the distinct feeling that most religions are losing followers because young people, generally, want to feel included and want to include others.
There are too many loud Christians that show far too much hate, derision, and sadly, message things that may NOT be those things, in very unflattering ways. If the focus was more on God's love of everyone than on his condemnation "of a certain kind of person", I'd think Christianity would not be haemorraging members.

Click to expand...

I really don't think this is the reason. If this were so, we would expect denominations like the Episcopal church to have lots of young members or at least more than the more socially conservative ones. They don't.

ThatRobGuy said:

I referenced in my prior post the "social cost" for leaving certain religions (and denominations) and how that plays a role. I think that's a much larger factor.

With many religions, the more people defecting and becoming unaffiliated has something of an exponential effect. As it would seem like for every one or two people who do it, it makes another three for four people comfortable in "going public" with their status as a non-believer as well. It's almost always easier to be the 1,000th person to do something than the 1st or 2nd.

Click to expand...

I agree but would also argue that depending on your social circle and where you live, there can actually be a social cost now for being a practicing Christian.

Margaret3110 said:

I agree but would also argue that depending on your social circle and where you live, there can actually be a social cost now for being a practicing Christian.

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There are certainly pockets of the US where that could be a factor (for instance, certain college campuses come to mind, I don't imagine self-professing evangelicals get invited to too many dorm parties at Berkeley).

However, I would suggest that for the majority of people, the inverse is probably still carrying a higher social cost. Even in the very progressive blue region that is San Fran, their elected congresswoman is Nancy Pelosi, a professing Catholic. Can you imagine a person who's a professing Atheist trying to win a House seat race in certain parts of the south and midwest?

I think the fact that more people are doing is, is making it "less impactful" for others to declare the same and having the exponential effect I described. Which is why the numbers for religiously unaffiliated only slowly increased from 1970-2010, then started growing leaps and bounds over a period of 10 years.

I would also surmise that many of the people "coming out" as non-believers were probably non-believers for a while already, but didn't feel "safe" in revealing their ideology on that until there were already enough other people doing it.

Desk trauma said:

This would be the case if the majority of the people in the Netherlands were using the definition of religion specific to US evangelicals. I find that idea dubious.

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Does that mean the US evangelicals have a better grasp on the term, "religion"?

Commonly, the word 'religion' in describing themselves is used freely by those who only have the capacity to understand religion.

So? We end up with the same outcome just the same.

Jesus did not come to give us "religion." Jesus came to earth opposing religion.

And, religion nailed him to the Cross.

That says something.

Find that idea dubious as much as you wish.

.....

GenemZ said:

Does that mean the US evangelicals have a better grasp on the term, "religion"?

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No. It's a distinction without a difference made to try to escape the negative connotation that have become attached to the word without doing anything to change the things that brought those negative notions about.

Fantine said:

I think two trends are converging. Young people loathe patriarchy and authoritarianism.

They are also not joiners, so even the more progressive religious communities are suffering.

If i had to predict, i would say that as they get older they may find the need for real community more important--but patriarchy and authoritarianism won't satisfy theuir spiritual longing.

Click to expand...

Since 3 seems important to so many Christians I'd add a third, hypocrisy.

Desk trauma said:

No. It's a distinction without a difference made to try to escape the negative connotation that have become attached to the word without doing anything to change the things that brought those negative notions about.

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Kinda sounds like what people do when they simply love to have something to argue about....
Religion is a condition of soul that thinks God "might exist." Its based upon superstiion.

Being spiritually alive is a transformed soul that has been made confident about God, because God has caused that confidence.

Religion is dead to the truth about experiencing regeneration.. though religious people may academically comprehend it.