Meat eaters and the worldwide flood myth
- Thread starter Frumious Bandersnatch
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animals eating animals started or at least began to show signs after the creation was cursed by God because of mans disobidiance.To show man the nature of sin.
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Leave the supernatural power of God in the picture and it isn't science. "God ignored the laws of nature and performed miracles by unspecified methods" is not testable by the scientific method, so it isn't science. The age of the person telling you that is irrelevant (and I'm a lot older than you are, before you start wanting to know if I'm a high school kid).
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Follower of Christ
Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a
Well then, if God does indeed exist, then by your own words He ignored His own laws. Okay, I agree that He did quite frequently (Red Sea parting and such)
Obviously then, ''testable by scientific method'' would not be applicable to those instances where God intervened supernaturally.
Yes, I agree with your hypothesis
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Today at 04:32 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #14
You are a funny kid.
I really need to keep the ages of folks in here in mind as I post.
When you start shaving and are driving, maybe I will look to your novel ideas then.
Try answering his points instead of taking cheap shots next time. The fact that your irrelevant insult is about the age of people involved is highly ironic. Try acting your age, rather than mine.
(I insulted my age group as well so it balances out. No hypocricy here)
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Follower of Christ
Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a
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I agree, Its amazing how a 15 year old can seem to act more mature than some older people here.
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Only when people dont use tact.
I have never been offended by our local BadFish, even though he is a fundie, he knows when to use tact. He also posts some very interesting things instead of trolling through posts and harassing people.
Might I suggest taking a step back, talking in a nice way with people first, then maybe people wont be offended by some of the things you say.
I have never been offended by our local BadFish, even though he is a fundie, he knows when to use tact. He also posts some very interesting things instead of trolling through posts and harassing people.
Might I suggest taking a step back, talking in a nice way with people first, then maybe people wont be offended by some of the things you say.
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First of all, Follower. Saying that because someone is young, their arguments are invalid or not adequately thought out is by definition an ad hominem attack. In debate, one is called upon to address the ARGUMENTS presented by an opponent, NOT that opponent themselves. If called to debate with Hitler, one does not hold the fact that he is Hitler against him.
So, either address Arikay's points, or don't reply to his posts. Ad homs are useless and frustratiing to anyone trying to have a reasonable discussion. (Not that 'reason' and 'discussion' ever go hand in hand around here...)
Second, also to Follower. If you want to believe in YECism, and invoke goddidit at every turn, that's fine. No one here is going to object - It's your belief, do with it as you please. However, such a belief cannot be masqueraded as science. Goddidit is untestable, and unfalsifiable. It is, again BY DEFINITION, not scientific. Touting a belief that goddidit is not scientific. (This is not an inherently bad thing. Not being scientific is fine. Some of my beliefs are firmly unscientific. However, I recognize and acknowledge that, and I do not call those beliefs scientific.)
(The usual trick for "Why doesn't ~insert creationist trick here!~ work?" Think about it from another direction. I'll claim that rather than a global flood, there was a global drought. This was caused by the notorious Invisible Pink Unicorn. The evidence we find in the world doesn't really support that. However, the IPUdidit. Have I solved the issue? Is my theory of a global drought now scientific? Of course not! The 'goddidit' solution for the flood myth problem faces exactly the same scenario. Yes, you can make it work by invoking an omnipotent deity - But you've left the realm of science, and by so doing, you've lost the right to call your claim scientific. Comprende?)
(As an aside, Follower, I have a challenge for you. Guess my age. PM me.)
So, either address Arikay's points, or don't reply to his posts. Ad homs are useless and frustratiing to anyone trying to have a reasonable discussion. (Not that 'reason' and 'discussion' ever go hand in hand around here...)
Second, also to Follower. If you want to believe in YECism, and invoke goddidit at every turn, that's fine. No one here is going to object - It's your belief, do with it as you please. However, such a belief cannot be masqueraded as science. Goddidit is untestable, and unfalsifiable. It is, again BY DEFINITION, not scientific. Touting a belief that goddidit is not scientific. (This is not an inherently bad thing. Not being scientific is fine. Some of my beliefs are firmly unscientific. However, I recognize and acknowledge that, and I do not call those beliefs scientific.)
(The usual trick for "Why doesn't ~insert creationist trick here!~ work?" Think about it from another direction. I'll claim that rather than a global flood, there was a global drought. This was caused by the notorious Invisible Pink Unicorn. The evidence we find in the world doesn't really support that. However, the IPUdidit. Have I solved the issue? Is my theory of a global drought now scientific? Of course not! The 'goddidit' solution for the flood myth problem faces exactly the same scenario. Yes, you can make it work by invoking an omnipotent deity - But you've left the realm of science, and by so doing, you've lost the right to call your claim scientific. Comprende?)
(As an aside, Follower, I have a challenge for you. Guess my age. PM me.)
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WinAce
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To top it all off, you can only make it partially work by invoking an omnipotent deity that's out to deceive scientists. There isn't just a lack of evidence for the flood, but evidence that if real makes it impossible.
Fossilized raindrops throughout layers deposited by a flood are but one thing. (For anyone who doesn't get it, try to imagine a scenario under which raindrops can leave impressions beneath 20 ft or more of surface water.)
Fossilized raindrops throughout layers deposited by a flood are but one thing. (For anyone who doesn't get it, try to imagine a scenario under which raindrops can leave impressions beneath 20 ft or more of surface water.)
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I dont know, havent figured that one out yet.
Either, the animals were turned into oil and coal. Or they were all fossilized weird, or they were food for animals off the ark.
Either, the animals were turned into oil and coal. Or they were all fossilized weird, or they were food for animals off the ark.
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look
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Today at 03:37 PM Arikay said this in Post #33 I dont know, havent figured that one out yet.
Either, the animals were turned into oil and coal. Or they were all fossilized weird, or they were food for animals off the ark.
First of all, Coal was formed from the tree bark that was laid down in sedimentary layers. Pressure and heat are all that is neccesary to make coal. Besides, in the coal mines, you can sometimes make out carbonized trees in the coal seams. I can make coal in a matter of days.
As for the oil, at the moment, I don't have the material at hand, but I can tell you that oil does not come from dead animals that were deposited in the sedimentary layers. Also, contrary to popular opinion, the oil keeps refilling some of the massive oil fields found in the Middle East. Where is it coming from? Besides, ALL lifeforms when they die, decompose into dirt.
So, where is the oil coming from?
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5th April 2003 at 10:28 PM Frumious Bandersnatch said this in Post #1
Look posted this on the insect thread.
So do other YECs here accept this? I have debated YECs who do. I think there are some major problems with this. I have trouble imagining T-Rex or velociraptors living on fruits and nuts, Smilodon Fatalis (Sabre tooth) living on grass, crocodiles living on water lillies or great white sharks and killer whales feeding on kelp. Evolutionary scientists say that a lot of animals are well adapted to a carnivorous life style. For example, all snakes are carnivores and all members of the cat family are obligate carnivores. They can't survive as vegetarians. There are many other animals that eat nothing but meat.
Aside from the scientific absurdity of carnivorous behavior not starting until after the flood, I think there are some apologetic problems. I guess creationists must believe that God created these animals with such good capabilites for meat eating. Does this mean that God knew that man would turn wicked and he was going to flood the earth and kill off everything and then give permission for meat eating? I suppose he must have. He is supposed to know everything. Why did He create a world He knew he would have to destroy? Why would He create animals so well designed for eating meat and then not let them start eating meat until after He had killed off most of the world? Why not keep them vegetarians for a while longer after the flood to avoid the obvious predator/prey species ratio problems that taking everything down to 2 of most "kinds" of animals obviously creates? Just after nearly all animals have been reduced to two of each "kind" does not seem to be ideal time to let them start eating each other. Does the idea that animals didn't eat meat until after the alleged worldwide flood make sense to anyone else besides Look? If so, how?
The Frumious Bandersnatch
OK, let's get back the original subject which I quote above from my first post on the thread. It seems that Freedom777 thinks carnivoruos behavior began at the fall. I have heard that one from YECs and also the position, put forth here by Look, that there were no carnivores of any kind until after the flood. You YECs are absolutely sure that you know exactly what the Bible is telling you but it seems to be telling you different things. FoC seems unwilling to tell use exactly what the Bible tells him on this subject.
So Look, start by explaining why God gave carnivores all those teeth and claws if he wasn't going to let them eat meat until after the flood and then try to answer the other questions above if you can.
Doesn't the image of great white sharks and killer whales living on seaweed before the flood seem at least a little strange to you? I think it's absurd in the extreme.
The Frumious Bandersnatch
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You do realize you are arguing against creationism?
I believe its believed that most of the oil comes from old plankton and other very small life. It also takes more than just pressure to make oil.
I believe its believed that most of the oil comes from old plankton and other very small life. It also takes more than just pressure to make oil.
Today at 02:01 PM look said this in Post #34
First of all, Coal was formed from the tree bark that was laid down in sedimentary layers. Pressure and heat are all that is neccesary to make coal. Besides, in the coal mines, you can sometimes make out carbonized trees in the coal seams. I can make coal in a matter of days.
As for the oil, at the moment, I don't have the material at hand, but I can tell you that oil does not come from dead animals that were deposited in the sedimentary layers. Also, contrary to popular opinion, the oil keeps refilling some of the massive oil fields found in the Middle East. Where is it coming from? Besides, ALL lifeforms when they die, decompose into dirt.
So, where is the oil coming from?
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Frum;
are you familiar with the lion in the 1970's who was a vegetarian its whole life? It refused to eat meat, or any food that had blood in it, no matter how hard people tried to coax it.
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
While it is not clear how these animals (there is more than one report of a vegetarian lion) survived on their meatless diet, it is quite clear that they could not have supported themself without human help.
So check it up under "exceptions prove the rule".
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Yes, Are you aware that the Lion was raised that way and that they had to hand feed it special vitamins and nutrients because it could not get them from plants and it would die without them?
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