The Abolishment of the Old Covenant the Law and Religion

SabbathBlessings · Sep 23, 2022

Robert Pate said:
I agree. Trying to be justified by the law is a first-class ticket to hell.

No one is justified by the law or saved by the law. We are saved by grace though faith. Keeping God’s law is an outward expression that we have been transformed inwardly by His Spirit, so one does not keep the law to be saved, the law is kept though love and faith, it is a fruit of one's faith. 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6, Romans 3:31, Revelation 14:12

Those who don’t keep the commandments, scriptures has some pretty strong words.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

Perhaps something to consider in prayer. God bless.

RobertPate · Sep 23, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
No one is justified by the law or saved by the law. We are saved by grace though faith. Keeping God’s law is an inward expression that we have been transformed by His Spirit so one does not keep the law to be saved, the law is kept though love and faith. 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6, Romans 3:31, Revelation 14:12

Those who don’t keep the commandments, scriptures has some pretty strong words.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

Perhaps something to consider in prayer. God bless.

Your emphasis on keeping the law and the commandments is a concern, simply because we don't keep the law or the commandments. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. I am sure that you would like to keep the law and the commandments, but because you were born after Adam that is not possible.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 23, 2022

Robert Pate said:
Your emphasis on keeping the law and the commandments is a concern, simply because we don't keep the law or the commandments. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. I am sure that you would like to keep the law and the commandments, but because you were born after Adam that is not possible.

Weird, my bible shows God, Jesus and the apostles repeatedly telling us to keep the commandments of God. I am going to stick with their teachings.

Paul says this on the matter:

Romans 5:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

guevaraj · Sep 23, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
No one is... saved by the law.

Sister, laws are a tool that God uses to rescue us from sin. God separates sin from our character through His law! What Judaism has not understood is that not just any law will remove sin from our character, but only laws given by someone who knows how to remove sin from our character. Therefore, human laws will not separate sin from our character because we are "blind" guides and only God's laws can separate sin from our character, because He is not a "blind" guide to remove sin from our character.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

SabbathBlessings · Sep 23, 2022

guevaraj said:
Sister, laws are a tool that God uses to rescue us from sin. God separates sin from our character through His law! What Judaism has not understood is that not just any law will remove sin from our character, but only laws given by someone who knows how to remove sin from our character. Therefore, human laws will not separate sin from our character because we are "blind" guides and only God's laws can separate sin from our character, because He is not a "blind" guide to remove sin from our character.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I am not promoting lawlessness and would appreciate it if you not micro-quote me.

BobRyan · Sep 23, 2022

BobRyan said:
"Do we then abolish the Law by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the Law" Rom 3:31
"This IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3-4
Under the New Covenant - the "Law is written on heart and mind" Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12
Under the New Covenant "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Under the New Covenant "the saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Under the New Covenant we are reminded to "Honor your father and mother' - which is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in that still valid unit of TEN applicable to all mankind.

You are pouring too much inference into your rendering of "goal" of the law in Rom 10:4

The scripture makes it clear that Jesus called Paul, gave him the message of the one and only Gospel given to Abraham "The Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

The law that is written on the heart of the believer Jer 31:31-34 is the same as the Word of God spoken at Sinai if we allow exegesis to be our guide for Heb 8 and for Jer 31 rather than eisegesis

Under the Mosiac law the penalty for sin is death. Under God's Law in both OT and NT it is death "The wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23.

Under the law that is written on the Christians heart - the law is unchanged and the penalty has been paid by Christ (see Romans 7).

So there is no condemnation, Romans 8:1 for the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Robert Pate said:
Your emphasis on keeping the law and the commandments is a concern, .

You are objecting to the texts ..

Rom 8:4-11 says that the lost person "does not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"--

can we at least agree to the text???

Robert Pate said:
I agree. Trying to be justified by the law is a first-class ticket to hell.

Indeed - but the texts at the quote at the top of this post can't be re-worked into being a "first class ticket to hell" by any stretch of the imagination.

RobertPate · Sep 25, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Weird, my bible shows God, Jesus and the apostles repeatedly telling us to keep the commandments of God. I am going to stick with their teachings.

Paul says this on the matter:

Romans 5:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

You apparently want to follow Old Covenant law and religion that leads to death. Under the New Covenant Christians are not led by laws, rules and religion, they are led by the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth. You need to trust in Christ for your salvation. Ephesians 1:13.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 25, 2022

Robert Pate said:
You apparently want to follow Old Covenant law and religion that leads to death. Under the New Covenant Christians are not led by laws, rules and religion, they are led by the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth. You need to trust in Christ for your salvation. Ephesians 1:13.

Not according to the scriptures:

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. I don't know about you, but I want to be one of God's people and guard His laws in my heart and mind.

God did not do away with His laws in the New Covenant, instead they are written on the heart and mind. I don't recommend changing your mind to what God has written.

The commandments of God are written in our hearts and we obey because we love God in the New Covenant. 1 John 5:3, John 14:15 they are written in our minds so we are doers/keepers of His Word and not just hearers, deceiving ourselves. James 1:22 John 14:15, Revelation 22:14

The Spirit role is to convict of sin (breaking the law 1 John 3:4) John 16:8, if one has not hardened their hearts and grieved away the Spirit where they no longer understand right from wrong according to God's standard Psalms 119:172. The dwelling of the Spirit is given to those who keep the commandments John 14:15-18 and those who obey God. Acts 5:32. It is impossible to be in the Spirit and be sinning (breaking the law) 1 John 3:4. We either serve God in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 or we are serving the other spirit who wants us not to keep God's law. 1 John 3:8, Revelation 12:17

Nice quote on Ephesians 1:13 goes well with this prophecy of God's people

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony,
Seal the law among my disciples.

God's people according to God's own words are law keeping in both heart and mind= man's all.

This teaching we do not need to obey God's laws is not coming from God and it should really make us pause to see which side are we on in this spiritual war.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

RobertPate · Sep 26, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Not according to the scriptures:

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. I don't know about you, but I want to be one of God's people and guard His laws in my heart and mind.

God did not do away with His laws in the New Covenant, instead they are written on the heart and mind. I don't recommend changing your mind to what God has written.

The commandments of God are written in our hearts and we obey because we love God in the New Covenant. 1 John 5:3, John 14:15 they are written in our minds so we are doers/keepers of His Word and not just hearers, deceiving ourselves. James 1:22 John 14:15, Revelation 22:14

The Spirit role is to convict of sin (breaking the law 1 John 3:4) John 16:8, if one has not hardened their hearts and grieved away the Spirit where they no longer understand right from wrong according to God's standard Psalms 119:172. The dwelling of the Spirit is given to those who keep the commandments John 14:15-18 and those who obey God. Acts 5:32. It is impossible to be in the Spirit and be sinning (breaking the law) 1 John 3:4. We either serve God in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 or we are serving the other spirit who wants us not to keep God's law. 1 John 3:8, Revelation 12:17

Nice quote on Ephesians 1:13 goes well with this prophecy of God's people

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony,
Seal the law among my disciples.

God's people according to God's own words are law keeping in both heart and mind= man's all.

This teaching we do not need to obey God's laws is not coming from God and it should really make us pause to see which side are we on in this spiritual war.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The law that is written on the Christians heart is not the same as the written law. The written law demands perfect obedience or death. "The soul that sins must die". Under the law that is written on the Christians heart there is no condemnation if it is violated, Romans 8:1. It is a prompting or an urging to do what is right.

Christians are not motivated by laws, rules or religion. They are motivated by love for God and people. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit, who is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. Pharisees are led and motivated by law. Paul said, The law was not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient" 1 Timothy 1:9.

A good son does not need laws, rules or instructions. He knows what is required of him and lives accordingly. He would never do anything to disgrace his father or make him ashamed.

Do you really need to be told not to sin? If so, then maybe you are a lawless, disobedient person.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 26, 2022

Robert Pate said:
The law that is written on the Christians heart is not the same as the written law. The written law demands perfect obedience or death. "The soul that sins must die". Under the law that is written on the Christians heart there is no condemnation if it is violated, Romans 8:1. It is a prompting or an urging to do what is right.

Christians are not motivated by laws, rules or religion. They are motivated by love for God and people. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit, who is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. Pharisees are led and motivated by law. Paul said, The law was not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient" 1 Timothy 1:9.

A good son does not need laws, rules or instructions. He knows what is required of him and lives accordingly. He would never do anything to disgrace his father or make him ashamed.

Do you really need to be told not to sin? If so, then maybe you are a lawless, disobedient person.

Please show me where the law of God written in the heart in Hebrews 8:10 is not the same Law of God that God wrote with His own finger and is revealed in heaven Revelation 11:19 and we are free to break the commandments of God. All of God's law is written in the heart and mind and the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant for everyday Christian living, Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments often, so your assessment does not appear to be in line with the teachings of Jesus.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ [direct quote from the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20]; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

These are some pretty strong words from Jesus for those who keep the commandment of man over the commandments of God. Weird Jesus would be teaching the commandments of God if they were not written in our hearts in the New Covenant, which Jesus is the Mediator of and came to magnify His Fathers law Isaiah 42:21 (which means make greater) and came to do the will of His Father John 6:38 and who kept His Fathers commandments as our example to follow John 15:10. I choose to place my faith in teachings of Jesus and I think you might have some dangerous misunderstanding on the role of God's law. Faith is believing in what that person stands for. Faith is believing their teachings. Faith upholds the law Romans 3:31 and when we place our faith in God we believe and do what He asks. When we do what we want instead, our faith is in ourselves which is not sanctifying or saving.

RobertPate · Sep 26, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Please show me where the law of God written in the heart in Hebrews 8:10 is not the same Law of God that God wrote with His own finger and is revealed in heaven Revelation 11:19 and we are free to break the commandments of God. All of God's law is written in the heart and mind and the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant for everyday Christian living, Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments often, so your assessment does not appear to be in line with the teachings of Jesus.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ [direct quote from the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20]; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

These are some pretty strong words from Jesus for those who keep the commandment of man over the commandments of God. Weird Jesus would be teaching the commandments of God if they were not written in our hearts in the New Covenant, which Jesus is the Mediator of and came to magnify His Fathers law Isaiah 42:21 (which means make greater) and came to do the will of His Father John 6:38 and who kept His Fathers commandments as our example to follow John 15:10. I choose to place my faith in teachings of Jesus and I think you might have some dangerous misunderstanding on the role of God's law. Faith is believing in what that person stands for. Faith is believing their teachings. Faith upholds the law Romans 3:31 and when we place our faith in God we believe and do what He asks. When we do what we want instead, our faith is in ourselves which is not sanctifying or saving.

You are in complete and total denial of the New Covenant.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the vail that covered the Holy of Holies from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. This signified the end of the Old Covenant of law and religion and the beginning of the New Covenant.

Under the New Covenant God's people no longer live by laws, rules or religion, instead they live by faith in Christ and his Gospel, Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by laws, rules and religion is not living by faith.

Under the New Covenant God's people are ALREADY complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Under the New Covenant Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. No laws, rules or religion needed. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 26, 2022

Robert Pate said:
You are in complete and total denial of the New Covenant.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the vail that covered the Holy of Holies from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. This signified the end of the Old Covenant of law and religion and the beginning of the New Covenant.

Under the New Covenant God's people no longer live by laws, rules or religion, instead they live by faith in Christ and his Gospel, Paul said, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Living by laws, rules and religion is not living by faith.

Under the New Covenant God's people are ALREADY complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Under the New Covenant Jesus has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. No laws, rules or religion needed. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

Do you suggest we just ignore the teachings of Jesus to keep the commandments of God? Jesus has some warnings for those who teach against them I would take seriously. Matthew 5:19.

You keep talking about the just shall live by faith, but how do you have faith in someone but not believe their teachings? We are told to test ourselves are we in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. Does faith uphold the law or discount it? Romans 3:31 says faith establishes the law. In Revelation 14:12 we show the fruit of a saved person and they keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus. I don't see scripture that says faith voids out the law.

If one is in Christ are we going to vain His holy name and break this commandment?
If one is in Christ would one worship other gods and break this commandment?
If one is in Christ would one bow down to idols? Or break His holy Sabbath day? Steal, commit adultery or break any of His commandments? This is God's law that He personally wrote and is part of His heavenly kingdom Revelation 11:19 so you will have to answer to Him why you feel you are excempt from keeping His commandments.

Scripture right before the second coming of Jesus has this warning:

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 and all of them 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and James says you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12

The commandments of God just point out sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes directly from the Ten Commandments as to what sin is in the New Covenant Romans 7:7

You are denying the teachings of Jesus which gives some concern you might not understand the New Covenant that God writes His laws in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10 instead of deleting them.

Romans 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Not sure if you read Hebrews 4:10 but we are required to do something to receive His rest. Hebrews 4 is a warning for those who break His Sabbath because they do not enter into His Spiritual rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

When does God cease from His work? Genesis 2:1-3 which Hebrews 4:4 reminds us of. When does God tell us to cease from our works The Sabbath-Exodus 20:8-11. The same day God ceases from His works. When we keep the Sabbath, we enter into His Spiritual rest. Those who it was fist preached did not enter into His rest Hebrews 4:6 because they disobeyed. What they disobeyed what the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13, Ezekiel 20:21, we should not make the same mistake which is why Hebrews 4:9 tells us there remains the Sabbath rest (keeping) for God's people.

RobertPate · Sep 26, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Do you suggest we just ignore the teachings of Jesus to keep the commandments of God? Jesus has some warnings for those who teach against them I would take seriously. Matthew 5:19.

You keep talking about the just shall live by faith, but how do you have faith in someone but not believe their teachings? We are told to test ourselves are we in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. Does faith uphold the law or discount it? Romans 3:31 says faith establishes the law. In Revelation 14:12 we show the fruit of a saved person and they keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus. I don't see scripture that says faith voids out the law.

If one is in Christ are we going to vain His holy name and break this commandment?
If one is in Christ would one worship other gods and break this commandment?
If one is in Christ would one bow down to idols? Or break His holy Sabbath day? Steal, commit adultery or break any of His commandments? This is God's law that He personally wrote and is part of His heavenly kingdom Revelation 11:19 so you will have to answer to Him why you feel you are excempt from keeping His commandments.

Scripture right before the second coming of Jesus has this warning:

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 and all of them 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and James says you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12

The commandments of God just point out sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes directly from the Ten Commandments as to what sin is in the New Covenant Romans 7:7

You are denying the teachings of Jesus which gives some concern you might not understand the New Covenant that God writes His laws in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10 instead of deleting them.

Romans 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Not sure if you read Hebrews 4:10 but we are required to do something to receive His rest. Hebrews 4 is a warning for those who break His Sabbath because they do not enter into His Spiritual rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

When does God cease from His work? Genesis 2:1-3 which Hebrews 4:4 reminds us of. When does God tell us to cease from our works The Sabbath-Exodus 20:8-11. The same day God ceases from His works. When we keep the Sabbath, we enter into His Spiritual rest. Those who it was fist preached did not enter into His rest Hebrews 4:6 because they disobeyed. What they disobeyed what the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13, Ezekiel 20:21, we should not make the same mistake which is why Hebrews 4:9 tells us there remains the Sabbath rest (keeping) for God's people.

Where there are laws, rules and commandments there is sin, "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner concupiscence (lust) for without the law sin was dead" Romans 7:8.

The more that you try to be holy, the more that you will sin.

This is why Christians live by faith, Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not according to laws, rules and religion.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 26, 2022

Robert Pate said:
Where there are laws, rules and commandments there is sin, "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner concupiscence (lust) for without the law sin was dead" Romans 7:8.

The more that you try to be holy, the more that you will sin.

This is why Christians live by faith, Romans 1:17. They live by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not according to laws, rules and religion.

So I take it is a yes, we can ignore the teachings of Jesus who said plainly- If you love Me, keep My commandments. How do you have faith in someone but not faith in their teachings? Sounds like an oxymoron.

There is no scripture that says the more one tries to be holy the more they sin, instead we have these scriptures to learn from.

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Which was repeated from Leviticus 19:2 and the scripture tells us how to be holy. Leviticus 19:37 Keep all My Laws and do all that I tell you. I am the Lord.’”

I am placing my faith in the Lord to do what He asks, but we all have free will.

RobertPate · Sep 28, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
So I take it is a yes, we can ignore the teachings of Jesus who said plainly- If you love Me, keep My commandments. How do you have faith in someone but not faith in their teachings? Sounds like an oxymoron.

There is no scripture that says the more one tries to be holy the more they sin, instead we have these scriptures to learn from.

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Which was repeated from Leviticus 19:2 and the scripture tells us how to be holy. Leviticus 19:37 Keep all My Laws and do all that I tell you. I am the Lord.’”

I am placing my faith in the Lord to do what He asks, but we all have free will.

So, you think that Paul is a heretic?

I have seen it over and over again, especially in the holiness religions like Pentecostalism and your SDA religion. Do you remember all of those holiness preachers in the 70's. Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert? They all became adulters and fornicators.

This is why Paul said, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient" 1 Timothy 1:9.

A righteous man does not need laws, rules and instructions because he is led by the Holy Spirit, who is his teacher and his guide. A righteous man loves the Lord and would never do anything to make his Lord ashamed of him.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 28, 2022

Robert Pate said:
So, you think that Paul is a heretic?

I have seen it over and over again, especially in the holiness religions like Pentecostalism and your SDA religion. Do you remember all of those holiness preachers in the 70's. Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert? They all became adulters and fornicators.

This is why Paul said, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient" 1 Timothy 1:9.

A righteous man does not need laws, rules and instructions because he is led by the Holy Spirit, who is his teacher and his guide. A righteous man loves the Lord and would never do anything to make his Lord ashamed of him.

James Baker, Jimmy Swaggert are not SDA’s and not sure what their sins has to do with disregarding the the law as if that gives anyone a good reason to sin. The standard that we should test ourselves are the scriptures, not other people. Scripture predicted there would be many false prophets and its not up to us to judge anyone as only God knows the heart. We will not be judged based on what other do or don’t do, we all have to stand before Jesus based on what we have done. 2 Corinthians 5:10. This is how we know we are following God.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I do not think Paul is a heretic, but you seem to disagree with a lot of of Pauls ‘s teachings.

What matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

More importantly you seem to be out of harmony with the teachings of Jesus.

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15. Jesus does not teach we can be lawless (without law).

RobertPate · Sep 29, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
James Baker, Jimmy Swaggert are not SDA’s and not sure what their sins has to do with disregarding the the law as if that gives anyone a good reason to sin. The standard that we should test ourselves are the scriptures, not other people. Scripture predicted there would be many false prophets and its not up to us to judge anyone as only God knows the heart. We will not be judged based on what other do or don’t do, we all have to stand before Jesus based on what we have done. 2 Corinthians 5:10. This is how we know we are following God.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I do not think Paul is a heretic, but you seem to disagree with a lot of of Pauls ‘s teachings.

What matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

More importantly you seem to be out of harmony with the teachings of Jesus.

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15. Jesus does not teach we can be lawless (without law).

You appear to be in denial of the New Covenant of Gospel and faith.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 29, 2022

Robert Pate said:
You appear to be in denial of the New Covenant of Gospel and faith.

Jesus said this in the New Covenant- If you love Me, keep My commandments because God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant instead of deleting them, so no denial on my part.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jesus tells us there we need to do the will of the Father and not to be lawless right up to His Second Coming. Not sure how anyone could misinterpret these Words for Jesus.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus does not teach lawlessness and because we have faith in Jesus we should have faith in His promises and teachings.

RobertPate · Sep 29, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Jesus said this in the New Covenant- If you love Me, keep My commandments because God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant instead of deleting them, so no denial on my part.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jesus tells us there we need to do the will of the Father and not to be lawless right up to His Second Coming. Not sure how anyone could misinterpret these Words for Jesus.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus does not teach lawlessness and because we have faith in Jesus we should have faith in His promises and teachings.

The will of the Father is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ.

The spiritual law that is written on the Christians heart is not the same as the written law. The spiritual law is an urging or a prompting to do what is right. There is no condemnation if it is violated, Romans 8:1.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 29, 2022

Robert Pate said:
The will of the Father is that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ.

The spiritual law that is written on the Christians heart is not the same as the written law. The spiritual law is an urging or a prompting to do what is right. There is no condemnation if it is violated, Romans 8:1.

If we believe in Jesus we should believe what He asks of us.

The spiritual law is greater than the letter. For example, Jesus came to magnify the law (which means greater) Isaiah 42:21 and showed an example of this right from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 5:19-30 If we have a changed heart and remove thoughts of anger and hate towards our neighbor to love and compassion, thou shalt not murder will automatically be kept. This is God's law on the heart and mind. The spirit of the law is greater than the letter, if one finds themself breaking the letter, they are not following the Spirit. The Spirit is given to help us keep the commandants John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32 the letter is so that we know what not to do and just points out our sin like a mirror. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7. Jesus, God, the disciples do not teach we can be without law (lawless) we keep His laws through a changed heart and by love and faith. Romans 3:31, 1 John 5:3 Revelation 14:12

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