In Rev 2&3 Christ through John gives 7 messages to 7 churches. Each message was given to the seven churches as originally addressed. And these churches were in existence in Asia at the time of the revelation. Many other churches existed in Asia at the same time, but the churches selected were representative of the spiritual conditions which existed at that time. These messages can be applied to current churches of today. These special messages were written to the specific churches in Asia, but the same strengths and weaknesses can be found in today’s Body of Christ (Today’s Church). What Christ says to these churches is relevant in all times.
I agree with this, but none of this has anything to do with a pre-trib rapture.
This is not some made up view by me, but many Bible scholars share this view also. I am not forcing my view on anyone, believe what you want.
It's your pre-trib rapture view that I have a problem with, not your view that what Jesus said there can apply to churches throughout the New Testament time period up until today. While He did reference specific things that happened in those first century churches, He did teach principles there that can be applied ever since then.
Ok, I should have been more specific. Those believers in chapter 4 to 19 are the left behind Christians (they missed the rapture), who never truly believed, not born again of the Holy Spirit, thus not loving Christ first and He leaves them behind to go through the Tribulation.
What? If these people never truly believed and are not born again then they are not Christians. So, why are you calling them Christians?
They by God's grace are saved through this Tribulation but are persecuted and killed by the antichrist.
What does this mean? Aren't we all saved by God's grace? Don't we all go through tribulation and persecution?
2 Timothy 3:12 In fact,
everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that
we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
This happens during the first 3.5 years of the Tribulation, where I believe he will kill all the remaining Christians, then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God. Then Israel realising he is the false Messiah, kick him out, he gets angry and starts killing all the Jews. By God's grace, He will save a remnant, 1/3 of Israel as it is described in Zechariah 13:8 - these are the ones who according Zechariah 12:10 repent who they pierced on the cross.
Jesus applied Zechariah 12:10 to the time when He was crucified. Why are you applying it to the future?
John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36
These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37
and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”
This is all happening in the 2nd half of the Tribulation, also known as Great Tribulation where God will pour His wrath on the inhabitants on the Earth, and the remnant of Jews will be saved through it, and as Zechariah 13:9 says 'And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’” The Great Tribulation will be much worse than Holocaust. This is why I said the Church, the born again Christians cannot be here during this period, because Jesus drank the cut of the wrath of God for us.
Why do you apply Zechariah 13:9 to the future? Do you apply Zechariah 13:7 to the future as well?
Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. 8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
Zechariah 13:7 is quoted here:
Matthew 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
So, Jesus related it to His disciples running away after they came to take Him to be crucified. Also, notice how that passages talks about people being refined through the fire. That is not literal, but is talking about being spiritually refined through trials and tribulations.
Revelation 3:10 presents a promise that Christ will rapture genuine believers out of the world before the Tribulation period begins.
No, it absolutely does not. Read John 17:15. Christ protects while we're in the world rather than taking us out of the world.
The “hour of temptation” is the period of worldwide testing (Greek peirasmos), which has not yet occurred (compare Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21, 29). Christ promises to keep them “from” (Greek ek, “out of”), the period of the Tribulation.
To be kept from tribulation does not require being taken out of the world. The same Greek phrase is used here:
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you
protect them
from the evil one.
This makes it very clear that being kept from tribulation does not require being taken out of the world. So, you should interpret Revelation 3:10 accordingly.
Yes, but this are not the persecution and tribulations which Christians face, but about the coming 70th week of Daniel,
The 70th week of Daniel is fulfilled. Jesus confirmed the new covenant with His blood long ago and that resulted in the old covenant animal sacrifices and offerings no longer being required or wanted by God.
7 years of Tribulation with big T during which God pours His wrath on the inhabitants of the Earth, and as I explained, the believers cannot be here during that period.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 'Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.' Why would we be caught up with Him in the clouds and then come back down here again. He promised He will take us to His Fathers room (John 14).
It says we will be where He is. He is coming to us. He will bring heaven to us. Why would we meet Him "in the air" if we're just going to be taken to heaven after that? Why wouldn't we just meet Him in heaven instead?
Maybe you should think about why all the people of the Earth will mourn when they see Jesus coming.
I think you are the one who needs to think about what that means. They're not going to mourn His death, they (unbelievers) are going to wail in fear. Like it talks about here:
Revelation 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
If believers where still here when Jesus comes, surely they are not going to mourn.
Of course not. All believers will be caught up to meet Christ in the air when He comes and all unbelievers will be destroyed, as it teaches in passages like 1 Thess 4:13-5:11 and 2 Thess 1:7-10.
And, don't you think some become believers during a tribulation period before that? Why are you acting like there wouldn't be any believers on earth when He comes? Of course there will be. But, they won't mourn/wail because they are looking forward to His return. It is only the unbelievers who will be wailing in fear because of His return.
Again, I am not forcing my views on anyone.
Who said you were? But, if you're going to share your views on a forum like this then you should expect your views to be challenged.