Really Not Seeing This In Today's Church

No fear, no respect. Often, the god worshipped is the one created in the person's own image. Both the individual and the god worshipped excuse pleasurable sins.
Psalm 19

:9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;

"Jesus is my Superhero" thank you for this

"the god worshipped is the one created in the person's own image"

I want to be sure I never become like this

God Bless you!

Minister Monardo said:

[David]
Psalm 119:120 My flesh trembles for fear of You,
And I am afraid of Your judgments.

Is is not time to take this admonition more seriously?
[Paul]
Philippians 2:
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do
for His good pleasure.

Will you allow God to work into you what He Wills,
and do what is well pleasing in His sight?
Our doctrine cannot be our own.

John 7:17 If anyone wills to do His will,
he shall know concerning the doctrine,
whether it is from God or I speak on My own.

Isaiah 1:
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed,
judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord:
though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow;
though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured
with the sword:for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

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Minister Monardo, I got goosebumps when I read this "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure".


and I looooooooooooove that scripture from Isaiah!

I wrote this years back on this topic...

Restoring Reverence for God.

There is another issue that has contributed to a weak church today.
Our Father wants to express Himself to the world today through the family of God - in His fullness.
Social pressure has led to us presenting a palatable Gospel without the aspects of God’s nature that might offend.
We have failed to allow expression of many of His attributes and in doing so have made our God ‘PC’
To get a balanced picture of His character it is necessary to consider the whole of scripture and not just the New Testament.
Many believers have struggled to reconcile the Christ from the New with the God of Israel from the Old.
The aspects of God that have been conveniently ignored are in fact crucial to a strong Church. These could be called the ‘negative’ attributes of God, are not ‘nice’ and include the following…
Our God judges, is jealous, hates sin, is terrible, destroys, gets angry, consumes like a fire, takes vengeance and is intolerant.
Presenting a soft view of God has lead to having a generation of believers that have little comprehension or experience of the “fear” of God. There is a corresponding lack of wisdom among us, compounded by the modern trend towards young leadership in some Churches. By fear, I mean to honour and respect for a God who is awesome and holy. This is not to be confused with an unholy fear associated with sects and cults to control adherents.
This failure to represent of the fear of God to the Church has also meant that the Church’s voice in the world is muted.
How do we correct this lack of knowledge of such an important part of God’s character?
Three things come to mind.
Firstly, these aspects of God’s character are more often than not expressed through God’s prophets. You may ask - where are they? In many cases the structure and dynamic of our churches fails to make room for such a ministry. The one who is brave enough to say that we need to repent is often seen immediately as imbalanced ‘flakey’ or plainly deceived. In the early church there was a fellowship of prophets serving the family of God to bring His word. This is virtually unheard of today and would likely be viewed as a dangerous clique. This grouping of prophets in a district should be welcomed and serve to bring God’s Word to the Shepard’s in the area.
Secondly there has been a trend away from preaching and towards teaching. It is not surprising that preaching the Gospel has less appeal in the modern church as we are exhorted to go out and preach whereas most preachers stay in and preach. In staying in, they are all too often addressing a convinced audience. As in the early church, preaching should be done in public where the unsaved are. This is where the word of judgment has a significant place. Preaching with signs following in the market place results in radical conversions, which in turn challenge the church and stimulate renewal.
Thirdly our current generation seems to lack the personal close encounters with the Almighty that many of us remember, permanently changing our lives. I still recall a prayer time with students at Otago University in the 70’s when ‘God passed by…’ I was speechless for several hours. An encounter of that nature leaves one with a permanent deep respect and healthy fear of our Lord for a lifetime.
We sing about His awe, but if there was revelation knowledge of His holiness our gatherings would be more likely to command His respect and fear.

There definitely is a lack of fear of the Lord around the church now a days. But that’s due to a gigantic misunderstanding of grace. People have flipped Romans 6:1 on it’s head and misinterpret Ephesians 2:8-9. God’s grace doesn’t give us license to sin, nor does it mean that we have no part to play in our salvation.

I just completed a read through (and partial) study of Revelation and it is incredible how many times Jesus tells the churches to repent or else! He even mentions the Nicolaitans, who were a group that taught God’s grace gave them license to live however they wanted to live basically. Jesus specifically said that He hates… HATES those who do those works. Think about that. Jesus hates people who use His love and grace to give themselves license for unholiness and unrighteousness.

God’s grace is meant to lead us to repentance. Repentance being a complete turn from all sin, not just the ones we want to give up. It’s a death to our flesh so that we may live for God in the Spirit. We don’t hear that word often in churches anymore.

In fact, repentance is the message preached all throughout the scriptures, even the book of Acts. It’s the message of salvation. But instead now, you see whole denominations and groups that have substituted true biblical salvation with a message of convenience and leisure.

God wouldn’t want you to be uncomfortable so just stay where you are. I will pray and if you agree with this prayer then you are saved. It’s absolutely mind boggling that no one (I don’t mean that number literally, but most) is told they must….. MUST repent!

Give up themselves so that God can send His Holy Spirit to give new life. That is why people struggle with sin, they won’t give up control of it to God. The church doesn’t teach about judgement anymore. Actually I just read about that this morning, such a convenient message.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

This isn’t only talking about what we would consider to be “unbelievers”. An unbeliever is anyone who does not know God AND does not obey Him. How much of the church is full of unbelief? That should break our hearts. Go inside a church and preach true truth.

That Jesus will judge us according to our works and those who are found lacking will suffer for it. You will be cast aside and shooed off, because people have itching ears just as the Apostle prophecied.

Lord may you wake us up!

ByTheSpirit said:

There definitely is a lack of fear of the Lord around the church now a days. But that’s due to a gigantic misunderstanding of grace. People have flipped Romans 6:1 on it’s head and misinterpret Ephesians 2:8-9. God’s grace doesn’t give us license to sin, nor does it mean that we have no part to play in our salvation.

I just completed a read through (and partial) study of Revelation and it is incredible how many times Jesus tells the churches to repent or else! He even mentions the Nicolaitans, who were a group that taught God’s grace gave them license to live however they wanted to live basically. Jesus specifically said that He hates… HATES those who do those works. Think about that. Jesus hates people who use His love and grace to give themselves license for unholiness and unrighteousness.

God’s grace is meant to lead us to repentance. Repentance being a complete turn from all sin, not just the ones we want to give up. It’s a death to our flesh so that we may live for God in the Spirit. We don’t hear that word often in churches anymore.

In fact, repentance is the message preached all throughout the scriptures, even the book of Acts. It’s the message of salvation. But instead now, you see whole denominations and groups that have substituted true biblical salvation with a message of convenience and leisure.

God wouldn’t want you to be uncomfortable so just stay where you are. I will pray and if you agree with this prayer then you are saved. It’s absolutely mind boggling that no one (I don’t mean that number literally, but most) is told they must….. MUST repent!

Give up themselves so that God can send His Holy Spirit to give new life. That is why people struggle with sin, they won’t give up control of it to God. The church doesn’t teach about judgement anymore. Actually I just read about that this morning, such a convenient message.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

This isn’t only talking about what we would consider to be “unbelievers”. An unbeliever is anyone who does not know God AND does not obey Him. How much of the church is full of unbelief? That should break our hearts. Go inside a church and preach true truth.

That Jesus will judge us according to our works and those who are found lacking will suffer for it. You will be cast aside and shooed off, because people have itching ears just as the Apostle prophecied.

Lord may you wake us up!

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There are some of my generation who testified they are going to heaven because Jesus paid the price on the cross. They claimed they are forgiven of all their sins. I did not hear these same preach repentance for the remission of sins.

How can one become born again and not sin?

I recall a verse from the Bible, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)

Paul preached as if the law alone is not good enough. One needs to believe and have faith, not give false testimony. I was reading a letter by John last night. He referred to the story about Cain and Abel. John warned you should love your brother, not kill your brother like Cain did.

"Jesus is my homie".

Sorry folks I don't have one of these.

I think it would be helpful to better articulate the subject matter. The fear of God is not the same sentiment as respect or honor. The spirit of Satan can just say that goodness only exists in mankind when they fear what God will do to them if they don't be good (see Job).

We need to reconcile the semantical differences between the fear of God described as the beginning of wisdom, with the perfect Love that casts out all fear. And how it is that God has not again given us the spirit of fear, but rather the spirit of adoption wherein we call Him our Father.

Moreover, any reverence needs to be sincere to be true reverence and same goes with true repentance. God does not want lip service. So, we can't just say repent of irreverence and unrighteousness speaking as though anyone can just turn such things on and off according to their own discretion. The power of salvation is in the Gospel, which is why what is impossible with mankind, is possible with God.

This is a simple articulation: Scripture is clearly saying we need to love God and so love others, and to me this means true reverence and true repentance is acknowledging that God is that brotherly Love that does good/God.

Minister Monardo said:

Why? The scriptures elucidate quite clearly.
2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved,
let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

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But scripture also says this: 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Minister Monardo said:

And yet we cannot confuse the fear of God with the fear
of death, from which we have been delivered. Hebrews 2:15

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There exist semantics in all languages. For example, there is a first and second death.

It is a blatant contradiction to say God has not given us a spirit
of fear, and apply it to the fear of God, right?
Is that what you are saying?

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Not exactly. I'd articulate the sentiment this way: The fear of God is good because it means there will be justice and justice is good. Fear and trembling is not God's Spirit in me.

I confess 2 Timothy 1:7 every time I feel the spirit of the world
trying to burden me with anxieties, confusion or doubts by the
evil reports we are offered from the world.
Again, the spirit of fear that comes from the world is not the fear
of God, and this verse is never to be applied to the fear of God.

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I'm simply saying that the Love of God (brotherly Love) is not based on fear of judgment because it's God's Spirit. It makes no sense to say that I fear brotherly Love.

I am not being semantical, I am rightly dividing the truth.
My apologies if I am being too simple, but your attempt
to articulate the matter more clearly has seemed to jumble
aspects of fear that have nothing to do with the fear of God.
Nonetheless, I truly appreciate your willingness to share and
find many statements useful for consideration on the topic.

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No apology necessary. It's a simple misunderstanding. Rightly dividing the truth is precisely what I mean by parsing the semantics in scripture. For example, I believe the two differing fears you are speaking of are qualified here:

Matthew 10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

phobeó: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten
Original Word: φοβέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phobeó
Phonetic Spelling: (fob-eh'-o)
Definition: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten
Usage: I fear, dread, reverence, am afraid, terrified.


STRONGS NT 5399: φοβέω

φοβέω, φόβῳ: passive, present φοβοῦμαι; imperfect ἐφοβούμην; 1 aorist ἐφοβήθην; future φοβηθήσομαι; (φόβος); from Homer down; to terrify, frighten,Wis. 17:9; to put to flight by terrifying(to scare away). Passive:

1. to be put to flight, to flee (Homer).

2. to fear, be afraid; the Sept. very often for יָרֵא; absolutely to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm: of those who fear harm or injury, Matthew 10:31; Matthew 14:30; Matthew 25:25; Mark 5:33, 36; Mark 10:32; Mark 16:8; Luke 8:50; Luke 12:7, 32; John 12:15; John 19:8; Acts 16:38; Acts 22:29; (Romans 13:4); Hebrews 13:6; 1 John 4:18; opposed to ὑψηλοφρονεῖν, Romans 11:20; of those startled by strange sights or occurrences, Matthew 14:27; Matthew 17:7; Matthew 28:5, 10; Mark 6:50; Luke 1:13, 30; Luke 2:10; Luke 9:34; ( L in brackets); John 6:19, 20; Acts 18:9; Acts 27:24 (but in the last two passages perhaps the exhortation has a wider reference); Revelation 1:17; with σφόδραadded, Matthew 17:6; Matthew 27:54; of those struck with amazement, (Matthew 9:8 L T Tr WH); Mark 5:15; Luke 5:10; Luke 8:25, 35. with an accusative of the contents (cognate accusative) (see ἀγαπάω, under the end): φόβον μέγαν, literally, to 'fear a great fear,' fear exceedingly, Mark 4:41; Luke 2:9 (1 Macc. 10:8); φόβον αὐτῶν, the fear which they inspire (see φόβος, 1), 1 Peter 3:14(Isaiah 8:12; τοῦ Τανταλου, to be filled with the same fear as Tantalus, Schol. ad Euripides, Or. 6); with the synonymous πτόησιν (which see), 1 Peter 3:6. τινα, to fear one, be afraid of one, lest he do harm, be displeased, etc.: Matthew 10:26; Matthew 14:5; Matthew 21:26, 46; Mark 11:18, 32 (cf. Buttmann, § 151, 11); ; Luke 19:21; Luke 20:19; Luke 22:2; John 9:22; Acts 5:26 (cf. Buttmann, § 139, 48; Winer's Grammar, 505 (471)); ; Romans 13:3; Galatians 2:12; τόν Θεόν, God, the judge and avenger, Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:5; Luke 23:40 (Exodus 1:17, 21; 1 Samuel 12:18); τί, to fear danger from something, Hebrews 11:23, 27; to fear (dread to undergo) some suffering, Revelation 2:10. in imitation of the Hebrew (מִן יָרֵא), followed by ἀπό τίνος(cf. Buttmann, § 147, 3): Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:4 (Jeremiah 1:8, 17; Jeremiah 10:2; Leviticus 26:2; 1 Macc. 2:62 1 Macc. 8:12; Judges 5:23), as in the Greek writings, φοβοῦμαι μή, to fear lest, with the subjunctive aorist: Acts ( L T Tr WH); ; μήπως, lest perchance, Acts 27:29 (here L μήπω (which see 2), others μήπου(which see)); 2 Corinthians 11:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; φοβηθῶμεν (equivalent to let us take anxious care) μήποτε τίςδοκῇ, lest anyone may seem (see δοκέω, 2 at the end), Hebrews 4:1; φοβοῦμαιὑμᾶς, μήπως κεκοπίακα, Galatians 4:11(see μήπως, 1 b.); φοβοῦμαι with an infinitive to fear (i. e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm), Matthew 1:20; Matthew 2:22; Mark 9:32; Luke 9:45(for numerous examples in the Greek writings from Aeschylus down see Passow, under the word, 2, vol. ii., p. 2315{a}; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, Buttmann, II. 4)).

3. to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience: τινα, Mark 6:20; Ephesians 5:33; τόνΘεόν, used of his devout worshippers, Luke 1:50; Luke 18:2, 4; Acts 10:2, 22, 35; (Colossians 3:22 Rec.); 1 Peter 2:17; Revelation 14:7; Revelation 19:5; also τόνκύριον, Colossians 3:22 (G L T Tr WH); Revelation 15:4; τό ὄνομα τοῦ Θεοῦ, Revelation 11:18 (Deuteronomy 4:10; Deuteronomy 5:29; Deuteronomy 6:2, 13, 14; Deuteronomy 13:4; Deuteronomy 14:22(23); Proverbs 3:7; Psalm 33:10 (), and many other passages; very often in Sir., cf. Wahl, Clavis Apocr. V. T., under the word, at the end); οἱ φοβούμενοι τόνΘεόν specifically, of proselytes: Acts 13:16, 26 (see σέβω). Compare: ἐκφοβέω. [SYNONYMS: ἐκπλήσσεσθαι to be astonished, properly, to be struck with terror, of a sudden and startling alarm; but, like our astonish in popular use, often employed on comparatively slight occasions, and even then with strengthening particles (as σφόδραMatthew 19:25, ὑπερπερισσῶς Mark 7:37); πτόειν to terrify, to agitate with fear; τρέμειν, to tremble, predominantly physical; φόβειν to fear, the general term; often used of a protracted state. Cf. Schmidt, chapter 139.]

On some of this I agree but "Really Not Seeing This In Today's Church". With our God words matter. In this world there are over 30 million Churches. So how many Churches have we been to ...to witness this? Then we would have to be there Sunday/Saturday month after month to hear every service.

Context matters. Maybe looking into what those words really mean. No offense but not worth getting into when you take verses out of context. for one David said my flesh, I fear and on and on. Then those other verses share just who they were talking to. In 61 years He's made sure I never fear Him.. hard to do since He, Christ, sweet sweet holy Spirit are in me and we are one. Try to grasp that. Now respect, reverence on and on and on for Him I have but fear which is not of God.. He has not given us the spirit of fear but of power love and a sound mind.

So in truth its not what others should be doing So if we are in the ministry of the gospel of Jesus Christ then we tell those He put under us not walk on (work) what others are doing for the lord.

childeye 2 said:

We need to reconcile the semantical differences between the fear of God described as the beginning of wisdom, with the perfect Love that casts out all fear.

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The two co-exist without contradiction.

It seems the fear that Satan was referring to in Job was not the Holy Fear of God.