The Left is Rallying to Take Your Guns Again

HARK! said:

Those who would disarm the People to be subjected to the will of the lawless.

That is what our founders fought against.

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Wild animals I can understand, criminals as well, but your idea of tyrants seems vague and insubstantial. Who are the "lawless"? That sounds like a fancy word for "criminal" but clearly you mean something different. You arm yourself against individuals who would disarm you? That's nothing but a tautology. You are going to have to do better than that--you are acquiring actual deadly weapons. No one does that except when preparing to defend oneself against an actual deadly foe. Yet you seem not to know who that is.

ottawak said:

No, it's not true. Apparently Clarke County, Nevada had such a requirement for a while when MMXX lived there.

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I wasn’t sure if the law had changed. I’ve only bought 2 guns in my life. My first gun was a 30/30 hunting rifle about 25 years ago and at that time I know it wasn’t mandatory to register it because they asked me if I wanted to and told me that I didn’t have to which I thought was strange. I registered it regardless but I bought a 22 pistol about 4 years ago and I couldn’t remember if I was required to register it or not I just did it anyway. I do think that all firearms should be required to be registered by law.

ottawak said:

Wild animals I can understand, criminals as well, but your idea of tyrants seems vague and insubstantial. Who are the "lawless"? That sounds like a fancy word for "criminal" but clearly you mean something different. You arm yourself against individuals who would disarm you? That's nothing but a tautology. You are going to have to do better than that--you are acquiring actual deadly weapons. No one does that except when preparing to defend oneself against an actual deadly foe. Yet you seem not to know who that is.

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I think knowing who might come to harm you is irrelevant to taking measures to protect yourself from the possibility of it happening.

BNR32FAN said:

I think knowing who might come to harm you is irrelevant to taking measures to protect yourself from the possibility of it happening.

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It enters into the calculation of the likelyhood of it happening and assumes that the tyrant will appear without warning and seize tyrannical power instantly. I can't think of very many tyrants who fit that description. The recent unpleasantness in Ukraine comes close to an attempt at that, but as has been noted by a poster, the Ukrainian government handed out weapons to their citizenry who have been fighting the tyrant with some success.

BTW, the handing out of weapons in such an emergency does not prove that Ukraine has weaker gun laws than we do.

BNR32FAN said:

I think knowing who might come to harm you is irrelevant to taking measures to protect yourself from the possibility of it happening.

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Yeah, that works. Think of the Maginot Line. Sun Tzu, who was in a position to know about such things said to "know your enemy." You don't even know who he is.

ottawak said:

It enters into the calculation of the likelyhood of it happening and assumes that the tyrant will appear without warning and seize tyrannical power instantly.

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Yes it does which is the most logical assumption to make in a situation like that. In order to be prepared for the worst case scenario you have to assume the worst case scenario.

Re: Comments that Texas violence comes from illegal immigration:
I haven't seen any proof that 'illegals mobbing the border' (i.e. undocumented people trying to escape violence in their home countries) are responsible for Texas' murders.
In my experience with undocumented people, they are more law abiding than the general population, and I don't know any with guns. Why? They are targeted for traffic stops. The tiniest infractions can result in deportation. All they want to do is stay under the radar, and murderers and criminals don't stay under the radar. They are hardworking.
They are so anxious to stay under the radar that if one person sees police out to give tickets they immediately send a text to their text list with the location.
Almost every mass shooter is Caucasian. I am not afraid of immigrants.

BNR32FAN said:

Yes it does which is the most logical assumption to make in a situation like that. In order to be prepared for the worst case scenario you have to assume the worst case scenario.

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Yet you have no idea where this tyrant might come from or who he might be, nor whether your preparations will be any use.

HARK! said:

I've taken a course in statistics. I know how data can be skewed to make it say whatever you want it to say.

I've read John Lott's study. Have you read any of these studies? Present the best one that you have; so that I can see how the data was presented, and pick it apart. Then we'll talk about anecdotal evidence.

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How do they know which states have the most guns?

HARK! said:

Moral of the story. In the end the Tyranny was cast off and the People were free. We see this story repeated throughout history. Times change; and the story remains the same.

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True -- the American Revolution was a political victory, won with intelligence and planning at least as much as the Almighty Gun.

...and the story does indeed remain the same -- tyrants are not so much overthrown by armed mobs worshiping the Almighty Gun as they are merely replaced by them. Tree of liberty, blood of patriots and all that...

In any event, regarding our would-be revolutionaries who bravely stormed state Capitol buildings (and one national Capitol building) to "end tyranny" -- on the off chance they would have succeeded in absolutely any of their endeavors, would they have been less tyrannical than their predecessors, or merely better armed?

"Those, who have the command of the arms in a country are masters of the state, and have it in their power to make what revolutions they please. [Thus,] there is no end to observations on the difference between the measures likely to be pursued by a minister backed by a standing army, and those of a court awed by the fear of an armed people." (Aristotle, as quoted by John Trenchard and Water Moyle, An Argument Shewing, That a Standing Army Is Inconsistent with a Free Government, and Absolutely Destructive to the Constitution of the English Monarchy [London, 1697])

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An interesting quote in light of the existence of our own standing army, which both Aristotle and our founding fathers argued passionately against, and whose brave sacrifices -- due to the Almighty Gun -- we just finished commemorating last Monday...

HARK! said:

Meaningful? Let's talk about meaningful. How would anything in the Democrats' proposed bill, have prevented these last two mass murders?

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I'm sure we can include a Thoughts and Prayers clause; those always seem to do the trick...

ottawak said:

Yeah, that works. Think of the Maginot Line. Sun Tzu, who was in a position to know about such things said to "know your enemy." You don't even know who he is.

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“Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril. When you are ignorant of the enemy, but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain in every battle to be in peril.”

Obviously he was speaking about gathering as much information about your enemy as you possibly can and knowing your limitations as well. He also said “He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.”

BNR32FAN said:

“Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril. When you are ignorant of the enemy, but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain in every battle to be in peril.”

Obviously he was speaking about gathering as much information about your enemy as you possibly can and knowing your limitations as well. He also said “He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.”

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OK, so it sounds like nothing but a WAG that AR-15s and the limited infantry maneuvers which relatively untrained and unorganized civilians can be expected to be able to carry out with them will be of any use. But certainly you must have given at least a little thought to the possible sources of tyranny in reaching that conclusion.

ottawak said:

Yet you have no idea where this tyrant might come from or who he might be, nor whether your preparations will be any use.

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Ahh ok so I have no idea which car on the freeway might hit me or from what angle or if one will even hit me at all so no need to put on my seatbelt. I don’t see any fires in my house at the moment and there might not be one so I guess I don’t need a fire extinguisher. I don’t see any falling objects on this construction site and there probably won’t be any so no need to wear my hard hat. That seatbelt might not save you. That fire extinguisher might not be sufficient to put out the fire. That hard hat might not stop a falling object from killing you but then again all of these things just might save your life.

ottawak said:

OK, so it sounds like nothing but a WAG that AR-15s and the limited infantry maneuvers which relatively untrained and unorganized civilians can be expected to be able to carry out with them will be of any use. But certainly you must have given at least a little thought to the possible sources of tyranny in reaching that conclusion.

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Sounds very similar to what the British thought about the American Revolution. The British lost BTW.

BNR32FAN said:

Ahh ok so I have no idea which car on the freeway might hit me or from what angle or if one will even hit me at all so no need to put on my seatbelt. I don’t see any fires in my house at the moment and there might not be one so I guess I don’t need a fire extinguisher. I don’t see any falling objects on this construction site and there probably won’t be any so no need to wear my hard hat. That seatbelt might not save you. That fire extinguisher might not be sufficient to put out the fire. That hard hat might not stop a falling object from killing you but then again all of these things just might save your life.

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Or you might be killed in some other way altogether. But at least you realize that tyranny can come in different ways from different sources. What else have you done to prepare besides arming yourselves with AR-15s?

BNR32FAN said:

Sounds very similar to what the British thought about the American Revolution. The British lost BTW.

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Not very similar. But we can't really say because we have no clue who you will be fighting or why.

Fantine said:

Re: Comments that Texas violence comes from illegal immigration:
I haven't seen any proof that 'illegals mobbing the border' (i.e. undocumented people trying to escape violence in their home countries) are responsible for Texas' murders.
In my experience with undocumented people, they are more law abiding than the general population, and I don't know any with guns. Why? They are targeted for traffic stops. The tiniest infractions can result in deportation. All they want to do is stay under the radar, and murderers and criminals don't stay under the radar. They are hardworking.
They are so anxious to stay under the radar that if one person sees police out to give tickets they immediately send a text to their text list with the location.
Almost every mass shooter is Caucasian. I am not afraid of immigrants.

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Ive worked with illegal immigrants for decades and your absolutely right. The vast majority of them come here to make a better living for themselves and their families and they tend to avoid illegal activities to avoid getting deported because to them they’re making a fortune here compared to what they can earn in their homeland.

BNR32FAN said:

Is that true? I know before you weren’t required to. I always did just because I wanted to be as compliant and open as possible to the authorities about my firearms.

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No. I was incorrect. I based what I said on personal experience, which turned out to be local rather than national.

ottawak said:

Or you might be killed in some other way altogether. But at least you realize that tyranny can come in different ways from different sources. What else have you done to prepare besides arming yourselves with AR-15s?

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I don’t own an AR15 I’ve only purchased a 30/30 lever action hunting rifle for hunting and a 22 cal pistol for home defense. If I were to purchase a semiautomatic rifle it would be an AK47 because they’re way better for hunting and all around a much better weapon in my opinion. In answer to your question I’ve also purchased a lot of survival gear for camping and I keep a small stockpile of nonperishable food. I also own a 4x4 vehicle in case I need to load up and get my family out of population to remote areas. My priority is to get my family to safety and if I have to fight to accomplish that then I can and I will.