Are we there yet?

RoBo1988 said:

Are we at point (1.) (2.) (3.) or (4.) of Mr. Franklin's following quote?:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. (1.)It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.(2) From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury (3.)with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy(4.), always followed by a dictatorship." -Ben Franklin

I personally think as far as point #1, that ship sailed long ago. We are solidly at point#2 , unaware of #3, and not too far from #4: a dictatorship, because:
“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.” (also Franklin)

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We are squarely in the middle of point 3 and the groundwork for point 4 is being laid as we speak.

Francis Schaeffer in How Should We Then Live predicted a right or left dictatorship would arise in America. I think we are heading for that right now.

Good quote but I believe it should be contributed to Alexander Fraser. HERE
Here is the rest of the quote, which is good too:
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

RoBo1988 said:

Are we at point (1.) (2.) (3.) or (4.) of Mr. Franklin's following quote?:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. (1.)It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.(2) From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury (3.)with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy(4.), always followed by a dictatorship." -Ben Franklin

I personally think as far as point #1, that ship sailed long ago. We are solidly at point#2 , unaware of #3, and not too far from #4: a dictatorship, because:
“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.” (also Franklin)

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Mr. Franklin was mistaken. Financial benefits don't explain who gets elected. Economic theory is far too simplistic and a minor factor in human decision making. We choose leaders based on emotional appeal rather than their fiscal policies.

Daniel Kahneman Explains The Machinery of Thought

RoBo1988 said:

Television, is the #1 culprit for this phenom. Not merely the campaign ads, but the media in general; "let me write the songs of the world, and I'll care not, who writes it's laws" Art dictates (worldly) lives.

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Not at all. Economic theory has proven to be wrong.
The value of goods is not "cash value" in decision making.
For example: people value $1 worth of milk
different from $1 worth of gasoline
different from $1 worth of ones own time
different from $1 worth of somebody elses time
different from $1 worth of cash
different from $1 feathers
different from $1 diamonds
different from $1 in retirement savings.

These are emotional decisions first, not economic ones.
If candidates promise $10 worth of feathers, they will get less votes, if any, compared to the candidate promising $1 in diamonds.

Of 2 Minds: How Fast and Slow Thinking Shape Perception

As a society, I believe we're at level 3. Level 4 won't come in my lifetime
but as young people are expressing themselves in embracing socialism as
the better alternative, they also show how ignorant they are about the history
of socialism. They've started voting for the government to provide them with
happiness and it will only get worse as my age group dies off, which will be in about 25 years.

RoBo1988 said:

Even worse situation, is a candidate that promises to cut spending, and to "mind his own business" (Calvin Coolidge); versus a candidate that promises "free" college (which won't be as good as paid-for school), checks, and goodies galore. "Silent Cal" wouldn't stand a chance in the 2020's

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I forgot all about Cal Cool.

Franklin never said that, and the person who did was critical of democracy in the first place.

Arcangl86 said:

Franklin never said that, and the person who did was critical of democracy in the first place.

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Alexander Fraser Tytler Quote by Alexander Fraser Tytler : “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of...” (goodreads.com)

RoBo1988 said:

Are we at point (1.) (2.) (3.) or (4.) of Mr. Franklin's following quote?:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. (1.)It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.(2) From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury (3.)with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy(4.), always followed by a dictatorship." -Ben Franklin

I personally think as far as point #1, that ship sailed long ago. We are solidly at point#2 , unaware of #3, and not too far from #4: a dictatorship, because:
“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.” (also Franklin)

Click to expand...

Sad... but true.

IMO, we are going to have one of two events take place.

1/ The left keep the house and the senate, they keep driving up inflation, keep crime up, kill the supply chain, overrun the nation with immigrants, finally kill the 1st and 2nd amendments, cause food shortages, and the people will beg for guaranteed income, free school, free medical treatment.
The democrats will gain all the power and you never see another republican in power again..
Eventually nobody has personal property. Then Revelations... the scrolls are opened.

2/ Events take place this summer to expose, fully, the Clintons, the Bidens, the corruption of the DOJ, FBI and attorney general of various states. The republicans take the house and the senate. They, then, use this power to reverse all the executive orders that Biden signed. Increase funding for police and lower crime... Overall, this will be done in such a miraculous time that people will be well aware that it is only due to God's hand in the working. There will be a revival of the church...

In 10 - 20 years or so... the enemy will have had time to correct the mistakes he made this time round and he will succeed.... the free world will fall to a one world government... Then Revelations.. the scrolls are opened.

Just my opinion... This summer... is a tipping point.

RoBo1988 said:

Correct. 'jacks' corrected me earlier, but I failed to acknowledge it. I apologize. As Abe Lincoln said: "Don't believe everything you see on the internet"

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You're right regardless of who said it "Whoever promises the most for the least wins the election". (I believe it was Abe Lincoln and Ben Franklin who jointly came up with this while flying kites to free the slaves.) While this sounds good and has some truth, it doesn't always pan out. If it did Bernie Sanders would be our president. This was countered by some guy named Bernard with the quote "“Vote for the man who promises least; he'll be the least disappointing.” Which while sounding a bit sexists is probably true. So while freebies go a long way towards getting votes, it doesn't always guarantee success. Fortunately, I think competing interests on who gets what, tends to temper the fall into #3 and #4.

jacks said:

You're right regardless of who said it "Whoever promises the most for the least wins the election". (I believe it was Abe Lincoln and Ben Franklin who jointly came up with this while flying kites to free the slaves.) While this sounds good and has some truth, it doesn't always pan out. If it did Bernie Sanders would be our president. This was countered by some guy named Bernard with the quote "“Vote for the man who promises least; he'll be the least disappointing.” Which while sounding a bit sexists is probably true. So while freebies go a long way towards getting votes, it doesn't always guarantee success. Fortunately, I think competing interests on who gets what, tends to temper the fall into #3 and #4.

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Abe Lincoln and Benjamin Franklin didn't live at the same time and wouldn't have ever met each other.

Perhaps you wrote that incorrectly ?

JimR-OCDS said:

Abe Lincoln and Benjamin Franklin didn't live at the same time and wouldn't have ever met each other.

Perhaps you wrote that incorrectly ?

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You're right, it was supposed to be a joke (obviously a bad one) referencing the OP's misquotes. The internet is good for a lot of things, but jokes and sarcasm are not a couple of its strong points.

jacks said:

You're right regardless of who said it "Whoever promises the most for the least wins the election". (I believe it was Abe Lincoln and Ben Franklin who jointly came up with this while flying kites to free the slaves.) While this sounds good and has some truth, it doesn't always pan out. If it did Bernie Sanders would be our president. This was countered by some guy named Bernard with the quote "“Vote for the man who promises least; he'll be the least disappointing.” Which while sounding a bit sexists is probably true. So while freebies go a long way towards getting votes, it doesn't always guarantee success. Fortunately, I think competing interests on who gets what, tends to temper the fall into #3 and #4.

Click to expand...

A politicians job is to promise the world to the people who elect them and then obey the powerful people who pay them.
Then, when elected, deflect and make excuses as to why they are breaking their promises..
At the next election, the depend on the pathetically short memories of those that elect them and the precious funds of those that pay them....