Why God can Save the world

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wendykvw

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Through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28)

Through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Spoken to and of the born again.

Except unbelief (John 3:18, John 3:36).


All will be born of the spirit, and all will be justified through Christ. God shows no favoritism. No one is left without an advocate. Jesus Christ.

Satan's will to estrange and destroy all humanity was defeated by the death and resurrection of Christ. There is no set deadline, God is unwilling any perish, but all come to Him willingly of their own accord. Based not on human efforts, but on the efforts and faithfulness of God.

Romans 3:24 AMPC
[All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus.

"What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Certainly Not!" Romans 3:3-4

But in your great mercy, you did not destroy them completely or abandon them forever. What a gracious and merciful God you are!
~Nehemiah 9:31(NLT)

To Him who [earnestly] remembered us in our low estate and imprinted us [on His heart], for His mercy and loving-kindness endure forever.
~Psalms 136:23 (AMP)

God is omniscient and His ways far out way any human. His love will reign and no soul can be left in their poor estate. For they will be cured by the Great Physician. (Isaiah 55:8-9, Mark 2:17, Luke 5:31,Psalm 139:8-9)

The Pharisees made the same mistake that God could not possibly redeem the gentiles, tax collectors, and prostitutes. They were focused on the "law" and could not comprehend the generosity of God. Translated in modern times, the modern church of today, can not comprehend the generous gift of God, to bring all under the Lordship of Christ, within the fullness of time. The victory of the cross will defeat all wickedness and ignorance.

“And it will not be [necessary] for each one to teach his fellow citizen,
Or each one his brother, saying, ‘Know [by experience, have knowledge of] the Lord,’
For all will know [Me by experience and have knowledge of] Me,
From the least to the greatest of them." Hebrews 8:11
 
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ViaCrucis

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Why can God save the world?
If God who created the world in seven days, can raise the dead, heal the blind, and can die on the cross, and rise from the dead. What prevents Him from redeeming everyone?

Good question.

Many years ago I read a (fictional, or parable of a sort) story about a man who died. He was greeted by an angel who brought him to a great big banquet hall with countless numbers of people gathered around tables, tables covered with every kind of delicious food you can imagine. It was a feast beyond comprehension. And yet, upon a closer look, the man saw that these people were angry, upset, discontent. They were emaciated and starving. How could these people be starving when they are participating in such a tremendous feast? The angel directed the man to look even closer, and the man noticed that the people had been given spoons with extremely long handles, so long that they were impossible to use to feed oneself. So every time someone tried to feed themselves, the food fell and splattered on the table, themselves, and the floor. And so each as they tried to feed themselves was ever more frustrated, ever more bitter and angry, raging at their situation. Cursed to spend eternity unable to feed themselves. The man realized this was hell. The man turned to his angelic tour guide and asked the angel, "If this is hell, what is heaven?"

The angel then took the man to another banquet hall. Identical to the last. The tables contained no less nor more food than the other tables. But here the people gathered were happy, laughing, singing songs, loving and enjoying themselves. The man again looked closer, and he saw that they also had the same spoons with extremely long handles, but instead of feeding themselves, they instead fed their neighbor. And because each fed the other, all were satisfied, happy and sharing in the great feast together. All were full, all were satisfied.

Salvation isn't about our getting our t's crossed and i's dotted. It's not about our having picked the right religion, or our having done all the right things. Salvation is what happens when God invades and starts transforming, healing, and rescuing people and the world. In the end, it's not about good people going to heaven (or people who happen to have chosen the right religion to follow); nor is it about bad people going to hell (or people who happen to have not had the right religion).

As St. Isaac the Syrian speculated, it is probable that in the end heaven and hell are the same "place", what makes the difference is not location, but disposition. As Isaac describes hell as the "scourge of love", as love is impartial--and God loves all impartially. Is that love a source of joy, or is it a source of shame, resentment, bitterness, and remorse? When you have hurt a close friend, and they continue to love you unconditionally, can be a bitter punishment far deeper than anything inflicted.

Forgiveness not only means we are pardoned in Christ, it means that we are freed to a life of a clean conscience before God--for our transgressions are no longer held against us. What happens when someone doesn't want to be forgiven? What happens when someone chooses to dwell, inhabit, their resentment, their guilt? What happens when slowly, but ultimately, a person so thoroughly despises their human personhood, and closes them up in the prison of their own agony? Locked, not by a jailer keeping them in, but by themselves, to keep their Savior out?

It's not about whether God can, or if God is willing. We have the answer to both questions: Yes. God both can, and wills to save--to save all, without condition. Christ died for everyone. Everyone was there at Calvary, every sin, every transgression, every shame, every injury, every guilt--Christ bore it on Calvary. And the Gospel is for everyone.

So why, then, if God wills that all be saved, and Christ is efficient to save all, and it has nothing to do with our ability--our works--to be saved; but is entirely God's work, God's gift, and God's ability in Christ and given freely to all in the Gospel; why then are some, in the end, not saved? The only answer we are left with is that there are those who will, in the end, insist "No", they don't want to live, they don't want love, they don't want humanity, or goodness, or the good creation which God has made. They want something deeper and far more terrible than death, what St. John of Patmos can only describe as a lake of sulfur and fire, a second death. Not annihilation, but worse than that. Existing but never living.

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith; not because it's about winning a theological lottery by having gotten our religion right. But because faith, which is given freely in the Gospel, changes us; through faith God justifies us, through faith the full work and merit of Christ is appropriated to us. Without faith, we remain shut up from God, closed off, dead, and apart from the very Life Himself.

So without faith, says St. Paul, it is impossible to please God--for it is faith that loves the hungry neighbor, it is faith that clothes the naked neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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wendykvw

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Good question.

Many years ago I read a (fictional, or parable of a sort) story about a man who died. He was greeted by an angel who brought him to a great big banquet hall with countless numbers of people gathered around tables, tables covered with every kind of delicious food you can imagine. It was a feast beyond comprehension. And yet, upon a closer look, the man saw that these people were angry, upset, discontent. They were emaciated and starving. How could these people be starving when they are participating in such a tremendous feast? The angel directed the man to look even closer, and the man noticed that the people had been given spoons with extremely long handles, so long that they were impossible to use to feed oneself. So every time someone tried to feed themselves, the food fell and splattered on the table, themselves, and the floor. And so each as they tried to feed themselves was ever more frustrated, ever more bitter and angry, raging at their situation. Cursed to spend eternity unable to feed themselves. The man realized this was hell. The man turned to his angelic tour guide and asked the angel, "If this is hell, what is heaven?"

The angel then took the man to another banquet hall. Identical to the last. The tables contained no less nor more food than the other tables. But here the people gathered were happy, laughing, singing songs, loving and enjoying themselves. The man again looked closer, and he saw that they also had the same spoons with extremely long handles, but instead of feeding themselves, they instead fed their neighbor. And because each fed the other, all were satisfied, happy and sharing in the great feast together. All were full, all were satisfied.

Salvation isn't about our getting our t's crossed and i's dotted. It's not about our having picked the right religion, or our having done all the right things. Salvation is what happens when God invades and starts transforming, healing, and rescuing people and the world. In the end, it's not about good people going to heaven (or people who happen to have chosen the right religion to follow); nor is it about bad people going to hell (or people who happen to have not had the right religion).

As St. Isaac the Syrian speculated, it is probable that in the end heaven and hell are the same "place", what makes the difference is not location, but disposition. As Isaac describes hell as the "scourge of love", as love is impartial--and God loves all impartially. Is that love a source of joy, or is it a source of shame, resentment, bitterness, and remorse? When you have hurt a close friend, and they continue to love you unconditionally, can be a bitter punishment far deeper than anything inflicted.

Forgiveness not only means we are pardoned in Christ, it means that we are freed to a life of a clean conscience before God--for our transgressions are no longer held against us. What happens when someone doesn't want to be forgiven? What happens when someone chooses to dwell, inhabit, their resentment, their guilt? What happens when slowly, but ultimately, a person so thoroughly despises their human personhood, and closes them up in the prison of their own agony? Locked, not by a jailer keeping them in, but by themselves, to keep their Savior out?

It's not about whether God can, or if God is willing. We have the answer to both questions: Yes. God both can, and wills to save--to save all, without condition. Christ died for everyone. Everyone was there at Calvary, every sin, every transgression, every shame, every injury, every guilt--Christ bore it on Calvary. And the Gospel is for everyone.

So why, then, if God wills that all be saved, and Christ is efficient to save all, and it has nothing to do with our ability--our works--to be saved; but is entirely God's work, God's gift, and God's ability in Christ and given freely to all in the Gospel; why then are some, in the end, not saved? The only answer we are left with is that there are those who will, in the end, insist "No", they don't want to live, they don't want love, they don't want humanity, or goodness, or the good creation which God has made. They want something deeper and far more terrible than death, what St. John of Patmos can only describe as a lake of sulfur and fire, a second death. Not annihilation, but worse than that. Existing but never living.

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith; not because it's about winning a theological lottery by having gotten our religion right. But because faith, which is given freely in the Gospel, changes us; through faith God justifies us, through faith the full work and merit of Christ is appropriated to us. Without faith, we remain shut up from God, closed off, dead, and apart from the very Life Himself.

So without faith, says St. Paul, it is impossible to please God--for it is faith that loves the hungry neighbor, it is faith that clothes the naked neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

Beautiful story. Thank you for sharing. I suppose this is why Christ is known as the great physician who can heal the the blind and raise the dead from the grave.

“All of God's actions are mysteries that are inaccessible to human reasoning. Gehenna is also a mystery, created in order to bring to a state of perfection those who had not reached it during their lifetime. ... Thus, Gehenna is a sort of purgatory rather than hell. It is conceived and established for the salvation of both human beings and angels. ... According to “St. Isaac the Syrian” all those who have fallen away from God will eventually return to Him because of the temporary and short torment in Gehenna that is prepared for them in order that they purify themselves through the fire of suffering and repentance.”


“Hell, therefore, according to Russian Orthodox Bishop Hilarion, is transitory. Once more, he emphasized that this is the logical conclusion that is derived once we establish the major premise that above all, God is Love, and that He is unlimited mercy. He said that God established the Kingdom of heaven for all created beings, "even though an intervening time is reserved for the general raising of all to the same [heavenly] level. And we say this that we too may concur with the magisterial teaching of Scripture." Such an understanding of Divine Mercy will cause people to love God more and not less. Divine Mercy shows us God's full love, and for that reason, Bishop Hilarion said, St. Isaac "was quite resentful of the widespread opinion that the majority of people will be punished in hell, and only a small group of the chosen will delight in Paradise. He is convinced that, quite the contrary, the majority of people will find themselves in the Kingdom of heaven, and only a few sinners will go to Gehenna, and even they only for the period of time which is necessary for their repentance and remission of sins."

“The Eastern Church holds that two states exist - heaven and hell - and that sanctification is more process-orientated. Thus, hell is where this process takes place. We are in the middle of the process of sanctification at the moment of our deaths, the work of holiness is an eternal one, since God's holiness is limitless and hence forever beyond us. The Western Church speaks of purgatory as a state where the "residual debt" due to sin is "worked off" before the Second Coming. Both realize the truth of the process of becoming holy by God's holiness, thus the cleansing "state" is temporary.”



Source: www.thedivinemercy.com. The diary of St. Faustina Article ; The Congresses Catches Fire April 2008
 
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Hmm

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That's a great story and it also explains how we can make our own life in this world a living hell too.

So why, then, if God wills that all be saved, and Christ is efficient to save all, and it has nothing to do with our ability--our works--to be saved; but is entirely God's work, God's gift, and God's ability in Christ and given freely to all in the Gospel; why then are some, in the end, not saved?

Would you not agree that the question is based on a supposition (that we are not all saved) that it assumes to be true?

The only answer we are left with is that there are those who will, in the end, insist "No", they don't want to live, they don't want love, they don't want humanity, or goodness, or the good creation which God has made.

I agree that this is the best answer if this supposition is true, but we'd get the different answer that we're all eventually saved if it's not.

They want something deeper and far more terrible than death, what St. John of Patmos can only describe as a lake of sulfur and fire, a second death. Not annihilation, but worse than that. Existing but never living.

I think something like this is needed to try to explain why someone would reject God forever but I wonder how feasible it is. If we are made in the image of God with a "God-shaped" hole in us, could our deepest desire ever be to become a kind of non-human and be apart from God forever? I hope I'm not stretching your analogy of hell and the spoons too far but would we not all eventually learn to feed our fellow diners and, from doing that, realise that real happiness comes from thinking of others and learning that we are not completely independent beings? This is a view of hell as a place of temporary, though possibly very lengthy, correction and education and not an endless punitive one of course.
 
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Clare73

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All will be born of the spirit, and all will be justified through Christ. God shows no favoritism.
Tell it to Esau (Romans 9:11-12).
No one is left without an advocate. Jesus Christ.
Not according to God's word in the NT.
Satan's will to estrange and destroy all humanity was defeated by the death and resurrection of Christ. There is no set deadline, God is unwilling any perish, but all come to Him willingly of their own accord. Based not on human efforts, but on the efforts and faithfulness of God.
Yes, all who come do come willingly.
But not all come

"Whoever does not believe in the Son is condemned already." (John 3:18)
"Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:35)
Romans 3:24 AMPC
[All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus.
Taking words out of context?

Romans 3:22 - This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
Not all believe.
"What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Certainly Not!" Romans 3:3-4
And not understanding the word of God, you are misrepresenting it.

Israel's lack of faith(fulness) does not nullify God's faithfulness to his promise to punish Israel for its unbelief.
Romans 3:5 - There unrighteousness (unfaithfulness) brings out more clearly God's righteousness
(faithfulness) to punish.


Spoken precisely of God's faithfulness to punish those of unbelief in his Son, not of his faithfulness to reward them.
 
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Mark Quayle

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YES. Agreed. Salvation and justification are completed by the blood of the lamb. The only issue is sanctification. This is not a “work” in order to gain salvation. Salvation is secured through blood of Jesus Christ. Hebrews 9:12 Essentially Universalists are Once Saved always saved Calvinist’s who believe the atonement is unlimited and that repentance and faith are necessary components to” prepare” for the Kingdom. There is no set deadline. Nothing can separate anyone from the love, Grace, mercy and compassion of God. Romans 8:38-39.
I find it strange that anyone would call UA Calvinist. Calvinists are TULIP 5-pointers, no?
 
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wendykvw

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I find it strange that anyone would call UA Calvinist. Calvinists are TULIP 5-pointers, no?

The Universalist Tulip is as Follows:

Total reconciliation
Unlimited atonement
LOVE
Irresistible grace through the ages
Perseverance of God

Compared to the Calvinist version:

The total depravity of man
Unconditional election
Limited atonement
Irresistible grace
Perseverance of the saints
 
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wendykvw

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Tell it to Esau (Romans 9:11-12).

Not according to God's word in the NT.

Yes, all who come do come willingly.
But not all come

"Whoever does not believe in the Son is condemned already." (John 3:18)
"Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:35)

Taking words out of context?

Romans 3:22 - This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
Not all believe.

And not understanding the word of God, you are misrepresenting it.

Israel's lack of faith(fulness) does not nullify God's faithfulness to his promise to punish Israel for its unbelief.
Romans 3:5 - There unrighteousness (unfaithfulness) brings out more clearly God's righteousness
(faithfulness) to punish.


Spoken precisely of God's faithfulness to punish those of unbelief in his Son, not of his faithfulness to reward them.

God has no set deadline. The key is all will come willingly. God is patient and unwilling that any perish, but all come to Him willingly through repentance. And according to scripture, this will occur. There is no need to be angry like the Prodigal's brother.

" Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess, and will swear allegiance." Isa 45:23

God never accepts forced confession, but we will celebrate when "every" tongue "willing confess and swear allegiance". :)


Also, it is good not to attribute to God our sinful nature, as in being unforgiving and vindictive.

"The LORD is merciful and compassionate, slow to get angry and filled with unfailing love." (Ps 145:8)

"The LORD is good to everyone. He showers compassion on all his creation."(Ps 145:9)

The Bible indicates that some may even be angry over the generosity of Christ. Many will complain that if someone didn't come to faith in their lifetime, they shouldn't be permitted into God's Kingdom. Christ replied to their complaint,"... Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity? ‘So the last will be first, and the first last.” (Matt 20:15-16)



See Scripture: 1 Corinthians 3:14-15, Matthew 20:1-16, Jonah 3:10, James 2:13, Gal 2:6, Col 3:25,Acts 10:34, Duet 1:17, Duet 10:17, Romans 2:12, James 2:1, Matt 19:30., Ezekiel 16:15., Matt 16:18, Col 1:20, Mark 9:12, Mark 9:49, Mal 3:2-3, Rev 21:4-5, Isa 49:15. John 1:29, Php 2:11, Isa 45:23.
 
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wendykvw

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The majority of believers miss the impact that Christ’s one act of righteousness, brought acquittal and right standing with God for all men. It is through the authority of Scripture, that we know that we serve a God that has an unlimited amount of Mercy and Wisdom!


And said, O Lord,God of our fathers, are You not God in heaven? And do You not rule over all the kingdoms of the nations? In Your hand is power and might, so that none is able to withstand You.
~2 Chronicles 20:6 (AMP)


Mainline denominations have a common theme, Christ will lose the majority of the world to wickedness and the devil. Christ was defeated, and it is up to fallible human beings to find the truth in order to attain salvation. And if they do not have the luxury of finding Christ, either through meeting a missionary or having a bible translated into their language, they are without hope. Currently, there are 3,969 languages without a Bible translated into their language. Does this sound like good news for those who have no Bible to read? Oh, yes and if God is waiting on a missionary to tell those across the globe about salvation, that is a huge YOKE to carry, missionaries may not make it in time before someone dies. Would God give that burden? No, God accomplished what men can not, HE is the redeemer, not fallible people.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
~Matthew 11:30 (HCSB)
 
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wendykvw

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THE VICTORY OF CHRIST from the Old Testament to the new, from Moses to Christ, intercession has been made to bring all of creation to the promised land. In the Old, Testament Moses intercedes on behalf of the Israelites. In the New, Testament Christ intercedes on behalf of the world. If God is for us, in whom shall we fear?



Moses performed signs and wonders, and Jesus performed signs and wonders.
Moses struck a rock to give people water. Jesus is the Rock and is life-giving water.
Moses ended the bondage of Israel to Pharaoh. Christ ended the bondage of sin and death.
The Israelites wandered around the wilderness due to their own rebellious spirit and Moses interceded on their behalf. Christ intercedes on the behalf of the rebellious world.
Moses told the Israelites to place the blood of the lamb on their door. Christ is the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Moses brought the law to mankind. Jesus fulfilled the law for mankind.


Christ wins and the devil suffers defeat.



" He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross." Colossians 2:14
 
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wendykvw

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In Mark chapter 10 verses 20-31, A rich young ruler asks Jesus what He must do to be saved. Notice Jesus didn’t say just place your faith in me and you will be saved. No, first Jesus points to the Ten Commandments, and the young rich man states he has kept all the commandments since birth. Next, Jesus tells him he must sell all he owns to come to follow Him, and the rich man walked away very sad for he loved possessions more than God. While Jesus was repeating the story, His disciples remarked that it was impossible for anyone to be saved. Christ's next statement is a huge revelation! He states:

With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.

~Mark 10:27 (AMP)



It is easy to fall into the mindset that there is no hope for anyone because we tend to attribute human weakness to God. We place our human characteristics onto God.

• Our lack of love

• Our lack of mercy

• Our own lack of patience



Universalist theology glorifies God's Divine Wisdom.



For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.

~Isaiah 55:9 (AMP)
 
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Hmm

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The Bible indicates that some may even be angry over the generosity of Christ. Many will complain that if someone didn't come to faith in their lifetime, they shouldn't be permitted into God's Kingdom.

The complainers are in effect saying "My faith in this world is worth more than your faith in the next age and it's reward will be greater." Ironically, it's seeing faith as a form of meritorious work.
 
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JulieB67

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" Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess, and will swear allegiance." Isa 45:23

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the Word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

When Christ returns every knee will bow they will have no choice but many will not swear allegience.

The key is all will come willingly

Throwing someone in the LOF is the very opposite of "willingly"

God never accepts forced confession, but we will celebrate when "every" tongue "willing confess and swear allegiance". :)

And yet you believe throwing someone into the LOF (a fire prepared for Satan and his) is not forced? And why have you changed the meaning of Christ's words who calls this the second death?

The word death in the Greek is 2288 thanatos -death, deadly. From 2348 thneesko -to die, be dead.

Since you've changed the definition of this word and essentially God's word- what's your new defintion?
You can take at all the verses you want out of context to believe what you want but in the end you can't change the meaning or God's intent. We can't let go of sound doctrine and listen to fables (even though this is prophecy at work)

Also, it is good not to attribute to God our sinful nature, as in being unforgiving and vindictive.

Forgiveness comes with a condition -repentance (change of heart/mind) and that comes through faith. And as Paul states faith is the hope of things unseen.

His disciples remarked that it was impossible for anyone to be saved. Christ's next statement is a huge revelation! He states:

Mark 10:26 "And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, "Who then can be saved?"

They are stating "who can be saved?" This has nothing to do with "everyone" being saved. Again, there are conditions -belief, faith and repentance. And God is the heart knower, he knows who is sincere in their faith, etc.

The majority of believers miss the impact that Christ’s one act of righteousness, brought acquittal and right standing with God for all men.

For all men who believe and put their faith in Christ.

Mainline denominations have a common theme, Christ will lose the majority of the world to wickedness and the devil

Revelation 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. and he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Christ is the only way, not Christ "and" the Lake of Fire. You can't post verses either about God trying people with the fire of the Holy Spirit in their "lifetime". That's in their lifetime. The LOF comes after the great white throne of judgement. It has nothing to do with testing people in their "lifetime". And again, the Lake of Fire was prepared for Satan and his. To even put it in the same context as God refining us in our lifetime is wrong.

You once posted this verse to me,

Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring a third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

And yet you conventiently left out the previous verse, therefore you losing context. We can't read the bible that way.

Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."

Meaning the first two parts shall be cut off and die but the third shall be left, God will refine "them" not the first two parts.

They should be read together just like the rest of the word. We have to rightly divide the word.

Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."

Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring a third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."
 
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Clare73

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THE VICTORY OF CHRIST from the Old Testament to the new, from Moses to Christ, intercession has been made to bring all of creation to the promised land. In the Old, Testament Moses intercedes on behalf of the Israelites. In the New, Testament
Christ intercedes on behalf of the world.
More misinterpretation of Scripture.

Christ intercedes on behalf of his bride, the church (Ephesians 5:31-32; Revelation 21:9)
If God is for us, in whom shall we fear?
Moses performed signs and wonders, and Jesus performed signs and wonders.
Moses struck a rock to give people water. Jesus is the Rock and is life-giving water.
Moses ended the bondage of Israel to Pharaoh. Christ ended the bondage of sin and death.
The Israelites wandered around the wilderness due to their own rebellious spirit and
Moses interceded on their behalf. Christ intercedes on the behalf of the rebellious world.
Moses told the Israelites to place the blood of the lamb on their door. Christ is the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Moses brought the law to mankind. Jesus fulfilled the law for mankind.
No, Moses interceded and acted only on behalf of God's chosen people, the OT church.
He interceded and acted for no other men.
Christ wins and the devil suffers defeat.
It's not a game of Thrones.
" He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross." Colossians 2:14
Again. . .spoken to the church of believers.

The misapplication of Scripture here is exceeded only by the ignorance of it.
 
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wendykvw

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Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the Word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

When Christ returns every knee will bow they will have no choice but many will not swear allegience.



Throwing someone in the LOF is the very opposite of "willingly"



And yet you believe throwing someone into the LOF (a fire prepared for Satan and his) is not forced? And why have you changed the meaning of Christ's words who calls this the second death?

The word death in the Greek is 2288 thanatos -death, deadly. From 2348 thneesko -to die, be dead.

Since you've changed the definition of this word and essentially God's word- what's your new defintion?
You can take at all the verses you want out of context to believe what you want but in the end you can't change the meaning or God's intent. We can't let go of sound doctrine and listen to fables (even though this is prophecy at work)



Forgiveness comes with a condition -repentance (change of heart/mind) and that comes through faith. And as Paul states faith is the hope of things unseen.



Mark 10:26 "And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, "Who then can be saved?"

They are stating "who can be saved?" This has nothing to do with "everyone" being saved. Again, there are conditions -belief, faith and repentance. And God is the heart knower, he knows who is sincere in their faith, etc.



For all men who believe and put their faith in Christ.



Revelation 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. and he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Christ is the only way, not Christ "and" the Lake of Fire. You can't post verses either about God trying people with the fire of the Holy Spirit in their "lifetime". That's in their lifetime. The LOF comes after the great white throne of judgement. It has nothing to do with testing people in their "lifetime". And again, the Lake of Fire was prepared for Satan and his. To even put it in the same context as God refining us in our lifetime is wrong.

You once posted this verse to me,

Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring a third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

And yet you conventiently left out the previous verse, therefore you losing context. We can't read the bible that way.

Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."

Meaning the first two parts shall be cut off and die but the third shall be left, God will refine "them" not the first two parts.

They should be read together just like the rest of the word. We have to rightly divide the word.

Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."

Zechariah 13:9 "And I will bring a third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

Bible ping pong has been going on since the early Christian church began. Peter and Paul were a lot closer to the most historical event in history; the death, and resurrection of Christ. Peter and Paul did not agree so please do not assume you are infallible, all holy and all-knowing. You are interpreting scripture based on your own bias and presuppositions. Also, don't be so angry that God loves those who do not love Him.

If you love only those who love you, why should you get credit for that? Even sinners love those who love them! 33 And if you do good only to those who do good to you, why should you get credit? Even sinners do that much! 34 And if you lend money only to those who can repay you, why should you get credit? Even sinners will lend to other sinners for a full return.

35 “Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Highest, for he is kind to those who are unthankful and wicked. 36 You must be compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate. Luke 6:32-38

God's punishments are medicinal. His love is unconditional ( 1 Corinthians 3:4). Yes, turn to God NOW for it is not in anyone's best interest to enter into the "fire" of Gehenna.

Salvation can never be revoked or lost. Christ's blood secured salvation forever, but it is mankind's responsibility to prepare and work towards sanctification. Prepare for the Kingdom of God is at hand.
-(Romans 5:19, Matthew 3:2-3, Luke 13:24,1 Peter 4:18)

Gehenna (hell) is a temporal place to restore and transform souls to prepare them to live in the Kingdom of God, and this is only possible through the Grace, Compassion, and Mercy of God.
(Luke 12:58-59,1 Peter 3:19, 1 Peter 4:6, Romans 8:38-39)

God is literally Love and Compassion and is not willing for any to perish for eternity.
(Matthew 18:14, 2 Peter 3:9,Palms 86:15,Isaiah 38:18)

God is going to grant full knowledge to everyone, with an outcome of celebration.
(Hosea 4:6, Jeremiah 31:34, Romans 14:11, Isaiah 45:23)

Yes, every knee and every tongue is going to WILLINGLY confess Jesus is Lord and will be saved from an eternity without Him.
(Isaiah 45:43, Philippians 2:11, Hebrews 14:11)

Christ defeated Satan and death, and nothing can separate anyone from God's Grace.
(Job 33:24, Colossians 2:14-15, 1 Corinthians 15:24, 1 Corinthians 15:55)

NO demonic authority can prevent anyone from receiving their full inheritance.
(2 Timothy 2:13, John 10:29, Romans 5:18, Hebrews 9:12)

Yes, there will be a future new world where there will no longer be death or suffering. God will restore His beautiful creation to peace and wholeness.
(Acts 3:21, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Isaiah 60:20, Revelations 21:4)

God is omniscient and His ways far out way any human. His love will reign and no soul can be left in their poor estate. For they will be cured by the Great Physician.
(Isaiah 55:8-9, Mark 2:17, Luke 5:31,Psalm 139:8-9)
 
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wendykvw

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Rather uncreative misapplication of NT teaching.
1 Peter 4:6

For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. (1 Peter 4:6 – NASB)


Just a few verses after 1 Peter 3:19, the traditional view is rocked by another of Peter’s statements telling us as directly and as clearly as possible that Christ preached to those who are dead (Shouldn’t this have a bearing on how 1 Peter 3:19 is interpreted?). This is a trickier passage for the traditional view since the wording is so clear. Precisely because of its clarity, some modern translations (i.e. NIV, NET, NLT) have inserted the word ‘now’ before the word ‘dead’ in order to enforce the understanding that Christ preached to these people while they were alive but who are now dead.

"For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body but live according to God in regard to the spirit." (NIV)


The NIV note on this passage correctly informs the reader that the word "now" is not in the original Greek but that it was added to clarify that Christ's preaching was done while the people were still alive and not after they died because there are no opportunities to be saved after death. Given that the translators of the NIV (and other modern translations) follow the traditional model, the insertion of the word 'now' makes perfect sense; this is not a deliberate attempt to mislead but rather an example of the translators remaining true to their stated goal to maintain the accuracy of the translation and "its fidelity to the thought of the biblical writers." To them, Peter did not intend to teach that Christ preached to the lost after they died but this assumption is built upon a traditional foundation. It's interesting that the Universalist model does not need to adjust the text in any way. Again this is a perfect example of how one's presuppositions determine interpretations.
 
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Clare73

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1 Peter 4:6
For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are (now) dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. (1 Peter 4:6 – NASB)
They were dead when Peter penned his letter, but they were alive when the gospel was preached to them
for the purpose that while they are judged by men according to the body, they live according to God in regard to the Spirit.

Nor does the NT allow opportunity for people to be saved between death and judgment (Hebrews 9:27).
Just a few verses after 1 Peter 3:19, the traditional view is rocked by another of Peter’s statements telling us as directly and as clearly as possible that Christ preached to those who are dead (Shouldn’t this have a bearing on how 1 Peter 3:19 is interpreted?). This is a trickier passage for the traditional view since the wording is so clear. Precisely because of its clarity, some modern translations (i.e. NIV, NET, NLT) have inserted the word ‘now’ before the word ‘dead’ in order to enforce the understanding that Christ preached to these people while they were alive but who are now dead.

"For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body but live according to God in regard to the spirit." (NIV)
The NIV note on this passage correctly informs the reader that the word "now" is not in the original Greek but that it was added to clarify that Christ's preaching was done while the people were still alive and not after they died because there are no opportunities to be saved after death. Given that the translators of the NIV (and other
modern translations) follow the traditional model, the insertion of the word 'now' makes perfect sense; this is not a deliberate attempt to mislead but rather an example of the translators remaining true to their stated goal to maintain the accuracy of the translation and "its fidelity to the thought of the biblical writers." To them,
Peter did not intend to teach that Christ preached to the lost after they died but this assumption is built upon a traditional foundation. It's interesting that the Universalist model does not need to adjust the text in any way. Again this is a perfect example of how one's presuppositions determine interpretations.
Are you sure about that?

Or. . .is their interpretation determined by their understanding of the connection between the purpose that the gospel was preached (that men live according to God in regard to the Spirit) therefore required that they be living, and not deceased?

Clever times half?
 
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