Republican Indiana state senator said teachers should be impartial on Nazism -

Pommer · Jan 11, 2022

HTacianas said:
You didn't answer the question. Who keeps the list of historical events labelled right and wrong?

All of us, as a functioning society.

Pommer · Jan 11, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
Most democrats are conservatives??? You sound to me like a democrat --that much is sure. "Democrats are conservative, therefore everyone else is far right-wing looney."

The Democratic Party is a center-right party, it only looks like a hotbed of Marist lunatics from the extreme, far right. So yes, this is accurate.

rambot · Jan 12, 2022

grasping the after wind said:
I suppose if one believes that students are so incapable of understanding moral issues by examining what actions were perpetrated that they couldn't figure out that NAZIs were heinous, then one might think it was terrible not to make sure someone in authority told them that NAZIs and their ideology were bad. As long as the facts of what the NAZIs did are presented and there is no one out there teaching Holocaust denial or advocating for NAZI ideology, I don't see a problem. If we are teaching students to think critically, they will reach the [proper conclusions about not only NAZIs but Communists and the fruits of all ideologies. Teachers telling their students what to think such as in "X is a good orY is a bad " rather than how to think i.e., present the facts and trust students to come to reasonable conclusions based upon them. That trust of students would have to be based upon them having been properly instructed in how to assess things based upon reason and not having been instructed to wait to find out what some authority figure will tell them to think.

Good heavens I'm so tragically disappointed I have to say this

Part of the hidden curriculum schools enforce AT SOCIETy's BEHEST is the imparting of certain norms. They are given this task so as to increase social cohesion with American society as a whole.

Society, up until now because people are going nuts, has seen that teachers are generally pretty capable at doing this task and have agreed on a set of assumptions
The fact is the hatefilled language such as that imbued by racists is often destructive to the targets.

It is fair to say that since the end of world war 2 one of those assumptions has been that Nazis are bad. We have all taught it, and have been taught that you in our school system since we the war started.

Why should we take a beat pause now? What is to be gained with starting off without that assumption that hatefilled bigots aren't helpful to society?

Pommer · Jan 12, 2022

rambot said:
Good heavens I'm so tragically disappointed I have to say this

Part of the hidden curriculum schools enforce AT SOCIETy's BEHEST is the imparting of certain norms. They are given this task so as to increase social cohesion with American society as a whole.

Society, up until now because people are going nuts, has seen that teachers are generally pretty capable at doing this task and have agreed on a set of assumptions
The fact is the hatefilled language such as that imbued by racists is often destructive to the targets.

It is fair to say that since the end of world war 2 one of those assumptions has been that Nazis are bad. We have all taught it, and have been taught that you in our school system since we the war started.

Why should we take a beat pause now? What is to be gained with starting off without that assumption that hatefilled bigots aren't helpful to society?

“The times, they are a-changing.”

TLK Valentine · Jan 12, 2022

HTacianas said:
That shows your failure to see past your own prejudices.

Sorry, didn't realize Nazis needed love too.

JustOneWay · Jan 12, 2022

Pommer said:
“The times, they are a-changing.”

Before you know it, there will be some kind of Parental Rights Amendment added to the Constitution, which will empower the parent to allow their child to embrace an understanding of Nazis with all the strength they can muster! Parental Rights! (as if they don't already have them)

KCfromNC · Jan 12, 2022

grasping the after wind said:
Who are the we that want teachers teaching morals? I would not be included in that group.

What should a teacher do if a student steals another student's lunch?

KCfromNC · Jan 12, 2022

essentialsaltes said:
Maybe, like the Pledge of Allegiance, we can just have the government create a list of certain value statements that are mandatory in schools, and all others are forbidden. This will entirely prevent indoctrination.

Nothing says "creating a generation of critical thinkers" more than imposing arbitrary standards which can't be explained by the people enforcing them.

Mark Quayle · Jan 12, 2022

durangodawood said:
Conservative doesnt mean what it used to anymore.

It keeps getting repainted, like history.

durangodawood · Jan 12, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
It keeps getting repainted, like history.

Its a shame we cant separate national myth-making from the discipline of history. I think we need both, but one will always suffer when theyre combined.

I suppose they are bound to be in tension.

JustOneWay · Jan 12, 2022

KCfromNC said:
What should a teacher do if a student steals another student's lunch?

I say zero tolerance policy.

Expulsion, and dishonor on the family.

Home school that will-be thief. Dare I say 'cut off that little thieving hand'?

JustOneWay · Jan 12, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
It keeps getting repainted, like history.

You mean history repainted like confederates saying the Civil war was not about slavery? Or me being taught that Columbus discovered America? Stuff like that?

ArmenianJohn · Jan 12, 2022

Mark Quayle said:
Most democrats are conservatives??? You sound to me like a democrat --that much is sure.

Right - has nothing to do with the fact that my profile says "US-Democrat" or anything.... Obviously I've been trying to hide my registered political affiliation but YOU, you SUPER SLEUTH, you have found me out!!! Curses, foiled agaiin!

But here's a little fun fact for you - I don't always vote Democratic and I didn't vote for Biden.

Mark Quayle said:
"Democrats are conservative, therefore everyone else is far right-wing looney."

Glad you agree!

childeye 2 · Jan 12, 2022

HTacianas said:
That is precisely what I am advocating for. And you would likely advocate against it as long as it is not your ox being gored.

This statement is the self-fulfilling negative prejudice of cynicism.

childeye 2 · Jan 12, 2022

essentialsaltes said:
Nobody does.

Who thinks that, by law, teachers should be forbidden to declare anything to be right or wrong?

Can we not allow teachers some modicum of freedom to discuss these issues? Without government interference and oversight?

I agree with your sentiment. I would point out that teachers are a part of government as hired professionals. They have to teach right from wrong as a matter of circumstance.

GreekOrthodox · Jan 12, 2022

What about Illinois nazis?

DaisyDay · Jan 12, 2022

grasping the after wind said:
I wouldn't be teaching a lesson about sex or NAZIs to kindergarteners. any more than I would be for teaching them quantum physics.

Sex education for kindergartners is usually the name for body parts, the difference between good touching and bad touching and what to do about bad touching (kids in authoritarian households may be beyond hesitant to tell any adult "no".)

TLK Valentine · Jan 12, 2022

DaisyDay said:
Sex education for kindergartners is usually the name for body parts, the difference between good touching and bad touching and what to do about bad touching (kids in authoritarian households may be beyond hesitant to tell any adult "no".)

Kids in abusive households as well...

Brihaha · Jan 12, 2022

essentialsaltes said:
Nobody does.

Who thinks that, by law, teachers should be forbidden to declare anything to be right or wrong?

Can we not allow teachers some modicum of freedom to discuss these issues? Without government interference and oversight?

I couldn't agree more. It's not as if teachers have qualified immunity to protect them from prosecution or anything. If teachers go overboard with their opinions they are disciplined or terminated. This infatuation with the word indoctrination is being exploited by politicians and seems like a new buzzword for the next election campaign.

grasping the after wind · Jan 12, 2022

Tanj said:
You keep saying this like critical thinking is a 2 second teaching you get on the first day of school.

It isn't. Critical thinks takes time to learn and requires some maturity to actually understand and implement, and that's apart from the fact it is taught nowhere in schools at the moment.

I don't know why you have the impression that I sound like critical thinking is a matter of 2 second teaching. Critical thinking ought to me the basis of all teaching which means it should begin in kindergarten. On an elementary level, children need to be encouraged to question everything that they are told by their instructors. It doesn't take maturity to ask "Why" or "How can I/do you know if that true?". Most children are predisposed to ask a least the why question and only refrain from doing so by being discouraged by those that do not have an answer to that question and become disturbed by being asked to back up their assertions about something they take for granted is true. It takes a competent teacher or a thoughtful parent to answer the question. The teacher must have at some point considered that question if that teacher has an answer. It should be stressed in every subject through a PHD program. It then ought to be the default of we every adult's analysis of any information they acquire.

Republican Indiana state senator said teachers should be impartial on Nazism -

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

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CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

I've already read the books you want burned.

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Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

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Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

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Psalti Chrysostom

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State

I've already read the books you want burned.

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That's grasping after the wind

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