Monarchy Idea?

IWalkAlone · Dec 1, 2021

The Barbarian said:
Attacking our Capitol, screaming to lynch the Vice President, and attacking police officers in an attempt to overturn the Constitution will cause people to think so, yes.

And all the insurgents wanted to to was murder a few of our public officials and overturn the vote of American citizens. For this police are arresting them and courts are even sentencing them to prison.

The meanies.

BLM burned a police station down and assaulted federal buildings. They said they would burn the system down.. Were they trying to overthrow the government?

com7fy8 · Dec 2, 2021

miamited said:
God bless,
Ted

Thank you for giving us your ideas

The Barbarian · Dec 5, 2021

com7fy8 said:
Like I mean . . . even anything that is "best" depends on the character of us who practice it. My opinion is there have been times when various forms of government have worked well . . . because of who was practicing it.

Problem with autocracy is, if the big guy is incompetent or evil, there's no remedy but a war to replace him.

And who gets to say who the big guy is? No, that never works for long.

The Barbarian · Dec 5, 2021

IWalkAlone said:
BLM burned a police station down and assaulted federal buildings.

Like this guy?
FBI: Far-Right Extremist Posed As BLM Protester, Fired On Minneapolis Police Precinct
The alleged gunman, a member of the Boogaloo Bois, shouted "Justice for Floyd" and helped set the building on fire, according to a federal complaint.
FBI: Far-Right Extremist Posed As BLM Protester, Fired On Minneapolis Police Precinct

Show us a BLM member who did that. You can't for reasons we all understand, even if you refuse to admit it. White supremacists want a revolution that takes down our democracy so they can impose a "white government."

Accelerationism is a term white supremacists have assigned to their desire to hasten the collapse of society as we know it. The term is widely used by those on the fringes of the movement, who employ it openly and enthusiastically on mainstream platforms, as well as in the shadows of private, encrypted chat rooms. We have also recently seen tragic instances of its manifestation in the real world.
White Supremacists Embrace "Accelerationism"

They said they would burn the system down..

They are marching alongside of you. You're helping them.

Were they trying to overthrow the government?

Attacking our Capitol to overthrow an election would qualify, yes.

com7fy8 · Dec 5, 2021

The Barbarian said:
Problem with autocracy is, if the big guy is incompetent or evil, there's no remedy but a war to replace him.

And, I suppose, the bad guy could be taken down by someone who is worse.

The Barbarian · Dec 5, 2021

com7fy8 said:
And, I suppose, the bad guy could be taken down by someone who is worse.

History is replete with that kind of thing.

jamiec · Dec 5, 2021

dóxatotheó said:
A monarch who has authority from heritage not election, but had laws he had to follow. He still has a possibility to lose his authority, but if you are born in the family you become the ruler after the older ruler passes on. These laws he has to follow is signed by a Court ruling which is how he loses his office if he breaks those laws he has to follow he loses his authority. But the only thing that this differs from Britian is that the ruler has more authority than the ruling the Queens have he still can veto etc. Also, the ruler has control over all means of production This view is a mix between constitutional monarchy and socialism. Is this view bad or good thoughts?

Whatever can be done by a lower authority rather than by a higher, should done by the lower, most immediate, authority: Subsidiarity - Wikipedia

This would have the benefit of retarding any tendencies to a would-be omnicompetent centralised state.

Malleeboy · Dec 22, 2021

Back to the original post, just wanted to highlight that Monarchs can be elected. England had an elected monarchy until 1066, for example Harold Godwinson was elected by the witan as king. The witan also deposed 2 kings. This is not just academic, it formed part of the justification for the parliamentary side in the British civil wars, the Glorious Revolution, and George I being effectively chosen over 60 people with better claims to the throne. Whilst the 15 Commonwealth crown realms parliaments do not directly vote on the next monarch, they have the constitutional right to pass a law to determine the succession, to exclude or change the order as they want. They all agreed just recently to remove male preference and just leave birth order preference. Any realm could, if they so wanted diverge from the others.

Steve11987 · Dec 25, 2021

atpollard said:
[Matthew 20]
24 And hearing [this,] the ten became indignant with the two brothers. 25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and [their] great men exercise authority over them. 26 "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

[Mark 10]
41 Hearing [this,] the ten began to feel indignant with James and John. 42 Calling them to Himself, Jesus said to them, "You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great men exercise authority over them. 43 "But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; 44 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. 45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

Thought: The FORM OF GOVERNMENT cannot cure the disease of the heart of mankind. Better a Military Junta whose heart belongs to God than a perfect democracy of men without the blessing of God. Until our LORD reigns, we are just wanderers in a strange land that is not our home ... doing good where HE allows us opportunity.

Democracies, or any kind of government, don't get the blessing of God.

Steve11987 · Dec 25, 2021

com7fy8 said:
We see, now, I would say, in the United States, how democracy can have a major problem . . . if the voters are not qualified to vote for what is good and work with each other. Voters can be good; one person with all control can be good. Voters can be selfish and divided; one person can be wrong.

Actually, democracy can be a multi-million group of dictators . . . each one being one's own dictator! . . . and not qualified to be. I would say that in the United States there are people who are good and qualified . . . for the country and for themselves, but some number are not good for even their own selves, never mind the country. And this can effect who gets into office.

Then there is the issue of your monarch being accountable to laws. How well this works will depend on how much power there is to enforce those laws. It can work well, I would say.

But in the United States, it seems there is enough corruption so there is inefficient enforcement of laws for politicians.

Democracy is severely overrated.

Torah Keeper · Dec 25, 2021

It all depends on if the king is good or bad.

JimR-OCDS · Dec 25, 2021

Steve11987 said:
Democracy is severely overrated.

But it's the best form of government that has ever existed in the history of humans.

BTW, we're a Republic with representatives elected by the states in a democratic
process.

Steve11987 · Dec 25, 2021

JimR-OCDS said:
But it's the best form of government that has ever existed in the history of humans.

BTW, we're a Republic with representatives elected by the states in a democratic
process.

From a Christian perspective I don't see that it's any different than the government of the Roman Empire with all it's faults, unfairness, and privilege for the rich, TBH. I know many Americans worship democracy but I'm not one of those. As Paul said, the government officials work for us to protect us and provide services for us and for that I commend them. Our democracy is still what the Bible calls the "World" and we are not to be friends with the World.

Torah Keeper · Dec 25, 2021

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.". ― Franklin D. Roosevelt.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin

The Illusion of Choice:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7108/8153985715_8bcf9969c4_b.jpg

Steve11987 · Dec 25, 2021

IWalkAlone said:
BLM burned a police station down and assaulted federal buildings. They said they would burn the system down.. Were they trying to overthrow the government?

Obviously BLM wasn't trying to overthrow any government.

Albion · Dec 25, 2021

Steve11987 said:
Obviously BLM wasn't trying to overthrow any government.

What makes you think that?

JimR-OCDS · Dec 25, 2021

Steve11987 said:
From a Christian perspective I don't see that it's any different than the government of the Roman Empire with all it's faults, unfairness, and privilege for the rich, TBH. I know many Americans worship democracy but I'm not one of those. As Paul said, the government officials work for us to protect us and provide services for us and for that I commend them. Our democracy is still what the Bible calls the "World" and we are not to be friends with the World.

Try reading the book, "Are We Rome: The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of America"
by Cullen Murphy

We aren't even close to being like the Roman Empire.

Just one fact, the Roman Emperors ruled with an iron fist, torturing and killing people
purely for entertainment purposes.

We have it better today than humans have ever had it history.
Things could be far worse !

Even the rate of poverty in the world is only at 10% which never was
achieved before.

Steve11987 · Dec 25, 2021

JimR-OCDS said:
Try reading the book, "Are We Rome: The Fall of an Empire and the Fate of America"
by Cullen Murphy

We aren't even close to being like the Roman Empire.

Just one fact, the Roman Emperors ruled with an iron fist, torturing and killing people
purely for entertainment pubrposes.

We have it better today than humans have ever had it history.
Things could be far worse !

Even the rate of poverty in the world is only at 10% which never was
achieved before.

But what significance does that have for a Christian? Does a prosperous nation mean more souls saved? We have serious problems in America and in the Church. A poll recently showed that 68% of Christians have a inappropriate content habit, for example. Could we be like the church at Laodicea where Jesus told them, "For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked."?

Steve11987 · Dec 25, 2021

Albion said:
What makes you think that?

Because any change that they wanted was to be done by peaceful protest and no one from the BLM advocated violently overthrowing the government. All the looting and destruction was not as a means to overthrow the government.

JimR-OCDS · Dec 25, 2021

Steve11987 said:
But what significance does that have for a Christian? Does a prosperous nation mean more souls saved? We have serious problems in America and in the Church. A poll recently showed that 68% of Christians have a inappropriate content habit, for example. Could we be like the church at Laodicea where Jesus told them, "For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked."?

We have problems, but they're nothing compared to the immorality and viciousness of
the Roman Empire. We don't even have capital punishment in most states, yet the Roman's
had gladiator fights to the death and crucifixion and other means of torture were often used.

Lets not forget that the Roman's invaded many countries and cultures
and treated them harshly.

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