THANKSGIVING POLL: 65% NOT Requiring Family Vaccination Status For Thanksgiving Meal Gathering

Pavel Mosko said:

I found this news segment funny in a sadly ironic Babylon Bee kind of way ( a few people are stuck with paranoid relatives requiring proof of vaccination at the door).

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In what way is this ironic? In what way is babylon bee sadly ironic?

Tanj said:

In what way is this ironic? In what way is babylon bee sadly ironic?

Click to expand...

No expert, but I also call b.s. that the sample of less than 1000 people is anything close to representative of the country as a whole. I've also taken those HarrisX polls for rewards and they weren't that great as a "payoff"

muichimotsu said:

No expert, but I also call b.s. that the sample of less than 1000 people is anything close to representative of the country as a whole. I've also taken those HarrisX polls for rewards and they weren't that great as a "payoff"

Click to expand...

I can't talk to these pollsters in particular but generally speaking 1000 people gives a reasonable representative result, assuming other factors are correctly controlled.

Pavel Mosko said:

I found this news segment funny in a sadly ironic Babylon Bee kind of way ( a few people like 3% are stuck with paranoid relatives requiring proof of vaccination at the door).

On today's What America's Thinking, a new Hill-HarrisX poll reveals only one in five Americans hosting a Thanksgiving gathering will require proof of vaccination to attend. This survey was conducted online within the United States from Nov 18 - Nov 19 among 939 registered voters by HarrisX. The sampling margin of error of this poll is plus or minus 3.2 percentage points. The results reflect a nationally representative sample of registered voters. Results were weighted for age, gender, region, race/ethnicity, income, political party, education, ideology and area type where necessary to align them with their actual proportions in the population.

Click to expand...

Well, certainly I agree with those who understand that there's a much larger picture here to the whole vaccination thing, than we are being told.

(Vaccinated or unvaccinated; we are all in this psy-op together!)

There is certainly two ways of looking at this:

There is the narrative that the unvaccinated are dangerous; but there's also a caveat of the question as to whether or not the vaccinated pose a risk to the unvaccinated, in regards to what has been called "spike protein shedding"?

I had an experience with my young adult son in early October, that very well could have been a product of this "spike protein shedding" that "rogue doctors" have stated is a reality.

My son (almost 20 years old) had been taken to the ER for what was an obvious illness (high fever, shortness of breath, gastro problems; wherewith 4 days later he developed "the Covid rash". = The blood work showed that his immune system was crashing and the ER doctor said "It's most likely Covid because this is what Covid does".

Well I'd told the doctor that we were there basically to know whether or not his "illness" was caused by a bacterial infection (because if that was the case; I knew that he would have needed antibiotics); but also that if it was Covid - I knew how to treat that: (Quercetin, Zinc, vitamins C, D and NAC).

The ER doc agreed that he believed it was Covid; and "unofficially nodded" to the treatment protocol I was using. He discharged the kid after having drawn blood to investigate as to whether or not the fevers he was spiking (104) were actually bacterial, or whether or not they were a result of his body's inability to maintain homeostasis, because of how Covid spike proteins affect the immune system. (Spike proteins are produced by those who are vaccinated; and the spike proteins (even outside of the presence of active virus) have been shown to be what causes the blood issues associated with Covid.)

All his blood work came back negative. It was not a bacterial infection.

The medical personnel were a bit perplexed at how functional my son was; given how high his fever was (103) upon admission. They found it perplexing that the fever was bouncing between 99 and 103 in a matter of 20 minutes, even in the prospect of having given him Tylenol. (His temp went from 103 to 99 to 101, 20 minutes after they gave him Tylenol; and the hospital staff was like... what the???) Clearly, this wasn't typical.

Well, (in short) I took him back home; kept giving him the supplement regimen and as soon as the fever broke (48 hours later); he came down with the "Covid rash". After looking the symptoms up on the Internet; I came to the conclusion that he most likely had "Post-Covid multi-system inflammatory syndrome". It just hadn't gotten "bad enough" that it showed abnormalities on the EKG. (They'd done an EKG in the ER because they suspected there would have been heart abnormalities, seeing how they are proving to be common, particularly in young people who are vaccinated. My son is not vaccinated and the EKG did not show any cardiac abnormalities.)

By day 5 or so post onset of illness; he was nearly totally back to normal. (The fever was gone. The gastro issues were gone. The rash was fading and he no longer had shortness of breath issues.) Whereas when I had Covid. I was sick for two months.

So yeah, I totally get the "in a Babylon Bee sort of way" / "paranoid of the unvaccinated" thing.

This whole pandemic is a "psy-op" and none of us are being told the WHOLE truth about what's REALLY going on!

As for me and my son; I would not say we are paranoid of the vaccinated. I would say that we are cautious, as I have still not found out whether or not one can get "Post-Covid multi-system inflammatory syndrome" more than once?

I've been out in public much more than my son has. He's basically only been out of the house (in nearly the past two years) to go to doctor's appointments and we know the source of what ever "Covid infection" he was exposed to, came from simply going to a blood lab to have his epilepsy medication levels checked. The only recurring negative "Post-Covid" complication I've had since recovery; is excessive menstrual bleeding (and I'm peri-menopausal).

So should the vaccinated be weary of the unvaccinated? My experience is that it's more likely the other way around. But still, I refuse to hold vaccinated people at "arms length" at what they maybe (and are likely) causing me in regards to potential health complications; as I recognize that this is a ploy to further divide the country. (Yet, I've also found other ways of mitigating what very well could be complications to me from spike protein shedding.)

I have lots of friends who've been vaccinated and I don't hate them because of their choices; despite that their choices very well could be affecting my health! People make choices they believe are best based on the information they have at the time; and I refuse to hold that against them based on the fact that I know our governmental officials are lying to us!

Tanj said:

I can't talk to these pollsters in particular but generally speaking 1000 people gives a reasonable representative result, assuming other factors are correctly controlled.

Click to expand...

And this, by the article's own admission, is less than that, so their control would have to be even more particular in weeding out variations, an experience I feel eventually made me have WAY less motivation to take surveys for any monetary reward (plus once you get about $5-600 worth, you have to file it on taxes, which was a pain) versus when I started back in 2015~

The Righterzpen said:

Well, certainly I agree with those who understand that there's a much larger picture here to the whole vaccination thing, than we are being told.

(Vaccinated or unvaccinated; we are all in this psy-op together!)

There is certainly two ways of looking at this:

There is the narrative that the unvaccinated are dangerous; but there's also a caveat of the question as to whether or not the vaccinated pose a risk to the unvaccinated, in regards to what has been called "spike protein shedding"?

I had an experience with my young adult son in early October, that very well could have been a product of this "spike protein shedding" that "rogue doctors" have stated is a reality.

My son (almost 20 years old) had been taken to the ER for what was an obvious illness (high fever, shortness of breath, gastro problems; wherewith 4 days later he developed "the Covid rash". = The blood work showed that his immune system was crashing and the ER doctor said "It's most likely Covid because this is what Covid does".

Well I'd told the doctor that we were there basically to know whether or not his "illness" was caused by a bacterial infection (because if that was the case; I knew that he would have needed antibiotics); but also that if it was Covid - I knew how to treat that: (Quercetin, Zinc, vitamins C, D and NAC).

The ER doc agreed that he believed it was Covid; and "unofficially nodded" to the treatment protocol I was using. He discharged the kid after having drawn blood to investigate as to whether or not the fevers he was spiking (104) were actually bacterial, or whether or not they were a result of his body's inability to maintain homeostasis, because of how Covid spike proteins affect the immune system. (Spike proteins are produced by those who are vaccinated; and the spike proteins (even outside of the presence of active virus) have been shown to be what causes the blood issues associated with Covid.)

All his blood work came back negative. It was not a bacterial infection.

The medical personnel were a bit perplexed at how functional my son was; given how high his fever was (103) upon admission. They found it perplexing that the fever was bouncing between 99 and 103 in a matter of 20 minutes, even in the prospect of having given him Tylenol. (His temp went from 103 to 99 to 101, 20 minutes after they gave him Tylenol; and the hospital staff was like... what the???) Clearly, this wasn't typical.

Well, (in short) I took him back home; kept giving him the supplement regimen and as soon as the fever broke (48 hours later); he came down with the "Covid rash". After looking the symptoms up on the Internet; I came to the conclusion that he most likely had "Post-Covid multi-system inflammatory syndrome". It just hadn't gotten "bad enough" that it showed abnormalities on the EKG. (They'd done an EKG in the ER because they suspected there would have been heart abnormalities, seeing how they are proving to be common, particularly in young people who are vaccinated. My son is not vaccinated and the EKG did not show any cardiac abnormalities.)

By day 5 or so post onset of illness; he was nearly totally back to normal. (The fever was gone. The gastro issues were gone. The rash was fading and he no longer had shortness of breath issues.) Whereas when I had Covid. I was sick for two months.

So yeah, I totally get the "in a Babylon Bee sort of way" / "paranoid of the unvaccinated" thing.

This whole pandemic is a "psy-op" and none of us are being told the WHOLE truth about what's REALLY going on!

As for me and my son; I would not say we are paranoid of the vaccinated. I would say that we are cautious, as I have still not found out whether or not one can get "Post-Covid multi-system inflammatory syndrome" more than once?

I've been out in public much more than my son has. He's basically only been out of the house (in nearly the past two years) to go to doctor's appointments and we know the source of what ever "Covid infection" he was exposed to, came from simply going to a blood lab to have his epilepsy medication levels checked. The only recurring negative "Post-Covid" complication I've had since recovery; is excessive menstrual bleeding (and I'm peri-menopausal).

So should the vaccinated be weary of the unvaccinated? My experience is that it's more likely the other way around. But still, I refuse to hold vaccinated people at "arms length" at what they maybe (and are likely) causing me in regards to potential health complications; as I recognize that this is a ploy to further divide the country. (Yet, I've also found other ways of mitigating what very well could be complications to me from spike protein shedding.)

I have lots of friends who've been vaccinated and I don't hate them because of their choices; despite that their choices very well could be affecting my health! People make choices they believe are best based on the information they have at the time; and I refuse to hold that against them based on the fact that I know our governmental officials are lying to us!

Click to expand...

You realize he might not have been hospitalized AT ALL, had he gotten the vaccination in the first place? And sounds like they just bought into the nonsense that somehow the vaccine is worse than the virus when the spike protein shedding is not impossible to happen in the vaccinated, though I seem to recall information suggesting it's less likely. And none of that would be from the vaccine itself, unless you've ALSO bought into the idea that the vaccinated can "infect" you with the spike proteins produced to induce the immune response (and will promptly disappear in a few days)

Instead, any of the actual problems would likely be from the virus, infecting either the vaccinated or unvaccinated because viruses EVOLVE and thus can bypass vaccination in the sense of infection even if the vaccinated have WAY lower hospitalization rates in terms of the average population (versus those whose immune systems are weaker and thus are more ideally protected when those who are younger get vaccinated, almost like this is a public community health issue and not just personal choices like whether I want to get Lasik surgery because I've decided I don't like wearing glasses).

Those spike proteins are produced more by a virus and not by vaccination which is not about producing the virus itself even with the earlier forms, but to introduce that antigen so the immune system can have a better response to it, not unlike getting secret information from an inside agent about a foreign invading force and thus prepping the defense against such things better

It's baffling we've gotten to a point where people will just try and project or deflect onto the ones trying to actually keep people safe and preach about responsibility while talking about the choice to get vaccinated like it's on the same level as what kind of ice cream flavor you choose rather than something that definitively has consequences on the larger community and not just the convenient in groups we tend to fixate on myopically.

You choosing not to take tylenol/etc because, like Frank Castle/The Punisher, you don't want to have your senses dulled by the effects from the pain killer, is not the same as you refusing to do any of the preventative measures in regards to what is ALSO a war like so many anti vaxxers (excuse me, "pro choice" advocates) seem to overlap with in salivating at the idea that eventually they'll get to cull the herd of those undesirables that are "hurting America" (because how dare we protect children from either being hospitalized or spreading the communicable virus to those more vulnerable like their grandparents, that's somehow "child abuse" to these so called "patriots")

muichimotsu said:

You realize he might not have been hospitalized AT ALL, had he gotten the vaccination in the first place?

Click to expand...

My son wasn't hospitalized; because as soon as I knew he was sick, I started giving him Quercetin (which is actually the main component in hydroxycloriquine. HQC is just more refined than Quercetin) zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D and NAC (n-acetyl cytosine).

HQC and Ivermectin do the same thing. They open the pathways for zinc to get into the cells. Zinc stops viral replication. Vitamin C facilitates zinc absorption. Vitamin D helps cells protect themselves from infection from foreign antigens. NAC prevents cytokine storm.

Cytokine Storm is one of the major factors that kills covid patients. It usually sets in 2.5 weeks post onset of Covid symptoms. The crashing of my son's immune system was due to cytokine storm; which in his case set in at least within 24 hours of onset of symptoms. They knew this because in less than a week his white blood cells, red blood cells and hemoglobin had already "bottomed out" under "low" of the metabolic panel test.

He was exposed to people who'd been "freshly booster shot" at the blood lab. We knew exactly where his blood work was the day he was infected; because standard "metabolic panel" is run for epilepsy med level checks. Metabolic panel is common with epilepsy med checks because seizure meds tend to affect the liver. In the ER, they ran the same standard metabolic panel.

muichimotsu said:

It's baffling we've gotten to a point where people will just try and project or deflect onto the ones trying to actually keep people safe and preach about responsibility while talking about the choice to get vaccinated like it's on the same level as what kind of ice cream flavor you choose rather than something that definitively has consequences on the larger community and not just the convenient in groups we tend to fixate on myopically.

Click to expand...

Both my self and my son had Covid back in March of 2020 before there was a vaccine!

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

We don't need the vaccine.

Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

AAAS

SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans | Nature

The course of infection I had with Covid; was far different than what my son presented with in October 2021. The telltale signs of "Post-Covid Multi-system inflammatory syndrome" is a high fever and a rash. Currently they are seeing this most commonly in the "fully vaccinated" adults. Early on in the pandemic, it was more readily recognized in children.

(So... how does someone who's not vaccinated, contract it from those who are?)

Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in an Adult after COVID-19 Vaccination: a Case Report and Literature Review

The vaccinated carry at least the same viral load as the unvaccinated.

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant

In some cases (depending on the vaccine and the person) even more.

DEFINE_ME

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant

So you think spike protein "shedding" is a myth eh?

(Although it is correct that if one was going to be proper about the terminology of "vaccine shedding"; we wouldn't call this "shedding" in the "viral vector" vaccine sense. Depending on the type of vector; the vaccinated can shed live virus that makes other's sick. And since mRNA vaccines cause vaccinated to make spike proteins; obviously they can shed them too.)

Potential DNA vaccine integration into host cell genome - PubMed

SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Elicits Cell Signaling in Human Host Cells: Implications for Possible Consequences of COVID-19 Vaccines

Self-disseminating vaccines for emerging infectious diseases

The spike proteins are what causes the blood issues in Covid patients.

Free SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein S1 Particles May Play a Role in the Pathogenesis of COVID-19 Infection - PubMed

The "fully vaccinated" are the ones currently filling the hospitals.

BNT162b2 vaccine breakthrough: clinical characteristics of 152 fully vaccinated hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel - PubMed

Australia, Israel Report 95-99% Hospitalized Fully Vaccinated - NewsRescue.com

Why a ‘significant’ amount of fully vaccinated people are being hospitalized with COVID-19

And the "fully vaccinated" are not getting Covid from people like me!

Potent antibodies found in people recovered from COVID-19

DEFINE_ME

On average "vaccine deaths" in the US range between 250 and 400 a year for all vaccines recorded in VAERS.

In 2019 about 175 million influenza vaccines were administered with 209 deaths. That's about equal to the numbers of people the CDC says have received a covid vaccine at this point.

Do you have any idea how many people are recorded to have died of covid vaccines in the last 10 months? Almost 19,000!

209 deaths to 18,853 deaths; and you don't see a problem here?

COVID Vaccine Data

Pavel Mosko said:

I found this news segment funny in a sadly ironic Babylon Bee kind of way ( a few people like 3% are stuck with paranoid relatives requiring proof of vaccination at the door).

On today's What America's Thinking, a new Hill-HarrisX poll reveals only one in five Americans hosting a Thanksgiving gathering will require proof of vaccination to attend. This survey was conducted online within the United States from Nov 18 - Nov 19 among 939 registered voters by HarrisX. The sampling margin of error of this poll is plus or minus 3.2 percentage points. The results reflect a nationally representative sample of registered voters. Results were weighted for age, gender, region, race/ethnicity, income, political party, education, ideology and area type where necessary to align them with their actual proportions in the population.

Click to expand...

I required my guests to have their vaccination records / tests stamped by the Notary Public, and had everyone sign a waiver. Just to be sure.

The Righterzpen said:

My son wasn't hospitalized; because as soon as I knew he was sick, I started giving him Quercetin (which is actually the main component in hydroxycloriquine. HQC is just more refined than Quercetin) zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D and NAC (n-acetyl cytosine).

HQC and Ivermectin do the same thing. They open the pathways for zinc to get into the cells. Zinc stops viral replication. Vitamin C facilitates zinc absorption. Vitamin D helps cells protect themselves from infection from foreign antigens. NAC prevents cytokine storm.

Cytokine Storm is one of the major factors that kills covid patients. It usually sets in 2.5 weeks post onset of Covid symptoms. The crashing of my son's immune system was due to cytokine storm; which in his case set in at least within 24 hours of onset of symptoms. They knew this because in less than a week his white blood cells, red blood cells and hemoglobin had already "bottomed out" under "low" of the metabolic panel test.

He was exposed to people who'd been "freshly booster shot" at the blood lab. We knew exactly where his blood work was the day he was infected; because standard "metabolic panel" is run for epilepsy med level checks. Metabolic panel is common with epilepsy med checks because seizure meds tend to affect the liver. In the ER, they ran the same standard metabolic panel.



Both my self and my son had Covid back in March of 2020 before there was a vaccine!

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19

We don't need the vaccine.

Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

AAAS

SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans | Nature

The course of infection I had with Covid; was far different than what my son presented with in October 2021. The telltale signs of "Post-Covid Multi-system inflammatory syndrome" is a high fever and a rash. Currently they are seeing this most commonly in the "fully vaccinated" adults. Early on in the pandemic, it was more readily recognized in children.

(So... how does someone who's not vaccinated, contract it from those who are?)

Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in an Adult after COVID-19 Vaccination: a Case Report and Literature Review

The vaccinated carry at least the same viral load as the unvaccinated.

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant

In some cases (depending on the vaccine and the person) even more.

DEFINE_ME

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant

So you think spike protein "shedding" is a myth eh?

(Although it is correct that if one was going to be proper about the terminology of "vaccine shedding"; we wouldn't call this "shedding" in the "viral vector" vaccine sense. Depending on the type of vector; the vaccinated can shed live virus that makes other's sick. And since mRNA vaccines cause vaccinated to make spike proteins; obviously they can shed them too.)

Potential DNA vaccine integration into host cell genome - PubMed

SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Elicits Cell Signaling in Human Host Cells: Implications for Possible Consequences of COVID-19 Vaccines

Self-disseminating vaccines for emerging infectious diseases

The spike proteins are what causes the blood issues in Covid patients.

Free SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein S1 Particles May Play a Role in the Pathogenesis of COVID-19 Infection - PubMed

The "fully vaccinated" are the ones currently filling the hospitals.

BNT162b2 vaccine breakthrough: clinical characteristics of 152 fully vaccinated hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel - PubMed

Australia, Israel Report 95-99% Hospitalized Fully Vaccinated - NewsRescue.com

Why a ‘significant’ amount of fully vaccinated people are being hospitalized with COVID-19

And the "fully vaccinated" are not getting Covid from people like me!

Potent antibodies found in people recovered from COVID-19

DEFINE_ME

On average "vaccine deaths" in the US range between 250 and 400 a year for all vaccines recorded in VAERS.

In 2019 about 175 million influenza vaccines were administered with 209 deaths. That's about equal to the numbers of people the CDC says have received a covid vaccine at this point.

Do you have any idea how many people are recorded to have died of covid vaccines in the last 10 months? Almost 19,000!

209 deaths to 18,853 deaths; and you don't see a problem here?

COVID Vaccine Data

Click to expand...

Drop in the water of deaths relative to those who have died from the virus, but you're likely to cherry pick that too, like you have for the myopic idea that somehow the only ones in the hospital are fully vaxxed rather than selective statistics that seem to suggest that from isolated contexts (Israel, really?). Claiming that you can point to numbers and that those are "just facts" ignores that facts are presented with presumptions and even narrative and rhetorical spin to send certain messages, facts don't exist in a vacuum and are not approached with absolute objectivity.

Also, pretty sure the # of deaths relative to the flu vaccines is not remotely proportional, nor is that anything more than correlation, not a demonstration of any kind of causal effect that isn't a variable in how people's immune systems respond and even then, that's debatable as to whether the vaccine actually caused it versus disposing someone at best to related issues the same way you could get a disposition to allergies from a bee sting.

If the full vaxxed are not getting Covid, then the vaccine is clearly doing its job and even if they were, the goal is not strictly to prevent spread, because viruses evolve, it's primarily, given the novel nature of spread anyway with this coronavirus, to reduce hospitalizations.

Oh, gee, you won't just give your son horse dewormer? At least you're only slightly deluded, afaik, and trying stuff that's about as reliable as making meth in your house. Sure you could do it, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Never said spike protein shedding was a myth in itself, only in regards to the idea spread that may have been a reverse psychology attempt to get anti maskers to wear masks under anti vax pretenses.

You cannot possibly claim with absolute precision where he was infected, certainly not who infected him, given that we have evidence it's not purely droplet based and esp. if he wasn't wearing a mask in those areas, which, fine, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

And sure, play Russian roulette with your health, that's a totally rational thing to do when you believe you know better because you appear to be convinced there's some malicious conspiracy that you've somehow exposed, but you're Cassandra with her prophecies that no one listens to, rather than the proverbial boy who cried wolf (which is what I'm leaning to more in these doom and gloom attitudes or the idea that somehow every choice is equal: they're not)

muichimotsu said:

Claiming that you can point to numbers and that those are "just facts" ignores that facts are presented with presumptions and even narrative and rhetorical spin to send certain messages, facts don't exist in a vacuum and are not approached with absolute objectivity.

Click to expand...

Except all the links I gave you were to medical papers; which medical papers consist of statistical data, not "presumptions, narratives, and rhetorical spin". But hey; if you don't want to "follow the science".

muichimotsu said:

Drop in the water of deaths relative to those who have died from the virus, but you're likely to cherry pick that too, like you have for the myopic idea that somehow the only ones in the hospital are fully vaxxed rather than selective statistics that seem to suggest that from isolated contexts (Israel, really?).

Click to expand...

You know Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on this planet don't you? And if the vaccines work; why are people in Israel still dying of Covid?

According to "Worldometer" 5,203,097 people have died of Covid. Personally, I believe the number is probably higher. But compare that death stat to influenza, polio, measles, small pox etc.; pick one. Then compare the development of vaccines for those illnesses and how long it took. Typical vaccine development takes 10 to 15 years. And if you really believe Covid is "a novel naturally occurring" virus; where'd they come up with this "new type of vaccine" in less than a year?

They'd been trying mRNA vaccines using other illnesses in animal trials (for at least 5 years prior) and they ran into a little pesky problem called antibody dependent enhancement. All the animal test subjects died. Which..... what do you suppose the reason is that vaccinated people exposed to new and different variants are getting sick and dying all the sudden? If the vaccines were safe and they worked; we wouldn't be having these problems.

Antibody dependent enhancement: Unavoidable problems in vaccine development
Two Different Antibody-Dependent Enhancement (ADE) Risks for SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies

Now compare India and central African countries; who are using HQC and Ivermectin and no vaccines. Covid isn't spreading like it is in these vaccine pushing countries and their fatality rates from Covid are also very low.

Your profile lists you as "skeptic"; well, be skeptical of what the MSM is telling you. Go look at data from other countries. Hell, go look at data from studies on medical websites. This information is out there. All you gotta do is look it up!

The 18,000 recorded dead in VEARS is only the tip of the iceberg. There's like 10 other US government data bases that the public doesn't have access to. One document leaked from an over 65 Medicare data base, had recorded 45,000 + deaths (people over 65 on Medicare) from the vaccines. (The date on that document was beginning of July 2021.) There was a civil lawsuit filed in Alabama against the US. Secretary of Health and Human Service concerning the data in that doccument.

45K Whistleblower Suit – Renz Law

muichimotsu said:

If the full vaxxed are not getting Covid, then the vaccine is clearly doing its job and even if they were, the goal is not strictly to prevent spread, because viruses evolve, it's primarily, given the novel nature of spread anyway with this coronavirus, to reduce hospitalizations.

Click to expand...

LOL - but they ARE getting Covid! And they are landing in the hospital; and not just with Covid but with vaccine injuries! (Why the push for boosters if vaccinated are not getting it?) Your argument makes no sense! Even the MSM at this point is admitting that!

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/22/got...ions-are-more-common-than-people-realize.html

Hospitalizations rising among fully vaccinated in U.S., Fauci says

muichimotsu said:

Oh, gee, you won't just give your son horse dewormer? At least you're only slightly deluded, afaik, and trying stuff that's about as reliable as making meth in your house. Sure you could do it, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Click to expand...

LOL - my son is still alive and here! No one gave him Remdesivir (which shuts down the kidneys), sedated him, stuck him on a ventilator and watched him die! Which is what the current CDC hospital protocols are for Covid patients.

Remdesivir Side Effects: Common, Severe, Long Term - Drugs.com

You probably don't even know what this stuff is; do you? (Although, I'll take for granted that you know what vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc are!)

Quercetin
Treatment of COVID-19 patients with quercetin: a prospective, single center, randomized, controlled trial
Anti-inflammatory potential of Quercetin in COVID-19 treatment - PubMed
The effect of quercetin on the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 and other respiratory tract infections in humans: A rapid review
A role for quercetin in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) - PubMed

Vitamin C
Vitamin C in the Treatment of COVID-19
Vitamin C and COVID-19
High-dose vitamin C intravenous infusion in the treatment of patients with COVID-19: A protocol for systematic review and meta-analysis

Vitamin D
Vitamin D and Its Potential Benefit for the COVID-19 Pandemic - PubMed
Effects of Vitamin D on COVID-19 Infection and Prognosis: A Systematic Review - PubMed
The Impact of Vitamin D Level on COVID-19 Infection: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

Zinc
The Potential Impact of Zinc Supplementation on COVID-19 Pathogenesis
Zinc and COVID-19: Basis of Current Clinical Trials
Zinc, Vitamin D and Vitamin C: Perspectives for COVID-19 With a Focus on Physical Tissue Barrier Integrity

NAC
N-Acetylcysteine to Combat COVID-19: An Evidence Review
N-Acetylcysteine as Adjuvant Therapy for COVID-19 - A Perspective on the Current State of the Evidence - PubMed
N-Acetylcysteine to Combat COVID-19: An Evidence Review - PubMed

muichimotsu said:

You cannot possibly claim with absolute precision where he was infected, certainly not who infected him, given that we have evidence it's not purely droplet based and esp. if he wasn't wearing a mask in those areas, which, fine, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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We can ABSOLUTELY PINPOINT THE DAY HE GOT INFECTED! Because he had blood work taken that day (compared to all his previous bloodwork) we have a real good baseline on this kid because he has regular blood draws for his epilepsy medication! All his blood work was consistent to that day. Less than a week later; the ER blood work showed a very different story! The ER doctor agreed with me. He probably was infected by someone at the blood lab. (Not that there was anything amiss with how the blood lab collected the blood. That wasn't the issue. The pathogen that made him sick, he was exposed to at that lab.

And YES! in NYS everyone who enters ANY type of medical facility is still mandated to wear a mask. He had a mask on, the staff had masks on and everyone in that lab had a mask on!

If you think a mask is going to prevent you from getting Covid; you have been misled. Depending on the type of mask, and the amount of contagion in the environment, the mask may "slow down" and lesson the amount of exposure to pathogen in the environment; but it will not guarantee that you will not get Covid!

So yes, I can claim with absolute precision where he was infected and when that happened, because he had not been out of the house in 3 weeks prior; and hadn't been anywhere else between the day of the blood draw and the trip to the ER; with exception of the Sunday before the ER visit; we did a "drive through" Covid test on him at Walgreens.

He had a covid PCR test in the hospital too. Both of his Covid tests actually came back negative. But... we all know the PCR tests don't work either! People get both false positives and false negatives. I think it's something like 30% of people who present to the hospital system with Covid symptoms who are later diagnosed with Covid have negative PCR tests.

Same thing had happened to me when I got it in March of 2020. I had a hard time getting at test to begin with. My local Veteran's Administration didn't have them yet and unless the hospital isolated you, they would not call the heath department to come do a Covid test. Both ER's I'd went to (4 days apart) left me sitting in a waiting room. Despite the fact that I had a cough, shortness of breath, fever, chest pain, ground glass opacities on X-rays and CT scans, elevated d-dimer, and blood counts that clearly showed I had a viral infection. The ER doctor at Strong Memorial Hospital (the biggest hospital in Rochester NY) told me "You can't have Covid because we don't have community spread!" Two days after I left that ER. Rochester had its first community spread fatality. The Veteran's Administration finally diagnosed me with Covid two months later; and part of that was because at that point I was presenting with "long haul Covid" blood issues.

muichimotsu said:

And sure, play Russian roulette with your health, that's a totally rational thing to do when you believe you know better because you appear to be convinced there's some malicious conspiracy that you've somehow exposed, but you're Cassandra with her prophecies that no one listens to, rather than the proverbial boy who cried wolf (which is what I'm leaning to more in these doom and gloom attitudes or the idea that somehow every choice is equal: they're not)

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Follow the data! Read the research papers. There are quite a lot of them now; beyond what I've posted.

muichimotsu said:

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

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How big of a "stupid prize" would you like? Because you have certainly earned one!

Except all the links I gave you were to medical papers; which medical papers consist of statistical data, not "presumptions, narratives, and rhetorical spin". But hey; if you don't want to "follow the science".

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Wow...so you assume every study that you can find must have been replicated when that's becoming more a problem that we can't get that, yet those studies are then published anyway? There's following the science and then there's being a sheep that doesn't consider that science has issues in regards to how studies are funded, to say nothing of how they're pushed out as fact when that's not how science works, there's demonstrations, not facts, which are the things observed to reach a particular conclusion through experiements.

You know Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries on this planet don't you? And if the vaccines work; why are people in Israel still dying of Covid?

According to "Worldometer" 5,203,097 people have died of Covid. Personally, I believe the number is probably higher. But compare that death stat to influenza, polio, measles, small pox etc.; pick one. Then compare the development of vaccines for those illnesses and how long it took. Typical vaccine development takes 10 to 15 years. And if you really believe Covid is "a novel naturally occurring" virus; where'd they come up with this "new type of vaccine" in less than a year?

They'd been trying mRNA vaccines using other illnesses in animal trials (for at least 5 years prior) and they ran into a little pesky problem called antibody dependent enhancement. All the animal test subjects died. Which..... what do you suppose the reason is that vaccinated people exposed to new and different variants are getting sick and dying all the sudden? If the vaccines were safe and they worked; we wouldn't be having these problems.

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I also know Israel has less than 10 million people, being the most vaccinated was never claimed to be a guarantee that you wouldn't still have hospitalizations, merely that they'd likely be lower.

Sounds more like you just don't like this technology and want to cherrypick anecdotal evidence to dismiss any efficacy when I could just as easily point to studies where the drug tested on animals was fine and then it happened to freaking kill people. Animal testing is borderline useless or certainly has limitations that we fail to recognize based on this status quo that we have to have testing in mice, which is not only wasteful, but not necessarily reflective of how humans respond.

The variants are different, that's literally in the name, they are variations of the original, which means they're going to have different effects or even be able ot bypass the vaccine's inoculation against positive symptoms manifesting. And I'll get to the booster shots, which you apparently have no comprehension of how immunity works and is not 100% remotely with viruses, since they evolve

Now compare India and central African countries; who are using HQC and Ivermectin and no vaccines. Covid isn't spreading like it is in these vaccine pushing countries and their fatality rates from Covid are also very low.

Your profile lists you as "skeptic"; well, be skeptical of what the MSM is telling you. Go look at data from other countries. Hell, go look at data from studies on medical websites. This information is out there. All you gotta do is look it up!

The 18,000 recorded dead in VEARS is only the tip of the iceberg. There's like 10 other US government data bases that the public doesn't have access to. One document leaked from an over 65 Medicare data base, had recorded 45,000 + deaths (people over 65 on Medicare) from the vaccines. (The date on that document was beginning of July 2021.) There was a civil lawsuit filed in Alabama against the US. Secretary of Health and Human Service concerning the data in that doccument.

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Taking the information and processing it aren't the same thing, don't patronize me with this idea that, "It's so simple, what are you stupid?"

Oh, yeah those people who already have weakened immune systems because they're old? Are you seriously going to suggest that they'd be better off taking a higher chance of dying or complications from covid than the infinitesmally smaller likelihood of problems with the vaccine. Even the numbers don't help, you're ignoring the statistical representation and just using the bigness of the numbers relative to the thing you're trying to act like is being covered up in a big conspiracy with basically no justification besides these vague correlations and sycophantic acceptance of numbers that confirm preconceptions instead of exercising skepticism consistently, which is not reaching some absolutist polarizing claim that everyone who doesn't agree with you is essentially brainwashed.

LOL - but they ARE getting Covid! And they are landing in the hospital; and not just with Covid but with vaccine injuries! (Why the push for boosters if vaccinated are not getting it?) Your argument makes no sense! Even the MSM at this point is admitting that!

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Just because you can point to them doesn't mean that's the trend remotely, that's more cherry picking on your part, desperately grasping at straws to try and claim this isn't that bad because you want to avoid any cognitive dissonance

LOL - my son is still alive and here! No one gave him Remdesivir (which shuts down the kidneys), sedated him, stuck him on a ventilator and watched him die! Which is what the current CDC hospital protocols are for Covid patients.
You probably don't even know what this stuff is; do you? (Although, I'll take for granted that you know what vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc are!)

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Maybe tone down this condescension, it's not helping. And I seriously doubt it does that for everyone anymore than one could point out some deadly aspect of aspirin, which is primarily a problem if you overuse it, like with anything in regards to the dose making the poison.

We can ABSOLUTELY PINPOINT THE DAY HE GOT INFECTED! Because he had blood work taken that day (compared to all his previous bloodwork) we have a real good baseline on this kid because he has regular blood draws for his epilepsy medication! All his blood work was consistent to that day. Less than a week later; the ER blood work showed a very different story! The ER doctor agreed with me. He probably was infected by someone at the blood lab. (Not that there was anything amiss with how the blood lab collected the blood. That wasn't the issue. The pathogen that made him sick, he was exposed to at that lab.

And YES! in NYS everyone who enters ANY type of medical facility is still mandated to wear a mask. He had a mask on, the staff had masks on and everyone in that lab had a mask on!

If you think a mask is going to prevent you from getting Covid; you have been misled. Depending on the type of mask, and the amount of contagion in the environment, the mask may "slow down" and lesson the amount of exposure to pathogen in the environment; but it will not guarantee that you will not get Covid!

So yes, I can claim with absolute precision where he was infected and when that happened, because he had not been out of the house in 3 weeks prior; and hadn't been anywhere else between the day of the blood draw and the trip to the ER; with exception of the Sunday before the ER visit; we did a "drive through" Covid test on him at Walgreens.

He had a covid PCR test in the hospital too. Both of his Covid tests actually came back negative. But... we all know the PCR tests don't work either! People get both false positives and false negatives. I think it's something like 30% of people who present to the hospital system with Covid symptoms who are later diagnosed with Covid have negative PCR tests.

Same thing had happened to me when I got it in March of 2020. I had a hard time getting at test to begin with. My local Veteran's Administration didn't have them yet and unless the hospital isolated you, they would not call the heath department to come do a Covid test. Both ER's I'd went to (4 days apart) left me sitting in a waiting room. Despite the fact that I had a cough, shortness of breath, fever, chest pain, ground glass opacities on X-rays and CT scans, elevated d-dimer, and blood counts that clearly showed I had a viral infection. The ER doctor at Strong Memorial Hospital (the biggest hospital in Rochester NY) told me "You can't have Covid because we don't have community spread!" Two days after I left that ER. Rochester had its first community spread fatality. The Veteran's Administration finally diagnosed me with Covid two months later; and part of that was because at that point I was presenting with "long haul Covid" blood issues.

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Pretty sure I never even insinuated that was the only preventative measure, so nice strawman, yet again. Of course there are other factors, since even from a cursory understanding, there are 3 other methods of infection from a virus besides the droplets that the mask would protect from with decent efficacy, but never 100%

Same with the tests, no one's claiming they're perfect and 70% is still fairly good and likely could be improved with time, but you act like it's just intentionally left in poor status when the whole consumerist aspect and commercialized nature of this creates that unfortunate side effect where we rush it out because that's how we make more money.

I seriously doubt PCR is so inaccurate that we cannot determine infection rates to a degree where it's worse. And you admit the death rate is likely higher, so why are you downplaying the idea that because maybe we don't always get accurate results (or someone doesn't read it right, that's also quite possible) that somehow there's still a conspiracy even though people are treating this like a public health emergency and rightfully so

The problem is this attitude that it's everyone else's fault and you "took every precaution" when you're taking a DIY approach to this and thinking viruses haven't gotten some way to deal with these home remedies and the like that you put forward, when evolution doesn't stop in nature, especially with viruses that literally can't survive apart from that principle of adaptation and improvements, including resistance (like with bacteria and antibiotics becoming increasingly useless because of overprescription)

Follow the data! Read the research papers. There are quite a lot of them now; beyond what I've posted.

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The data doesn't speak for itself, that's the naivete you seem to think will just "convince" people when there's a few hurdles here: 1) misinformation and 2) technical knowledge barriers. Couple that with Dunning Kruger effect and you've got a perfect storm of people thinking they know more than they do

How big of a "stupid prize" would you like? Because you have certainly earned one!

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Why? Because you think I've infected others while vaccinated and also taking precautions? Because you want to blame someone else while sitting on your high horse and thinking you're in the right? No one needs this holier than thou attitude and you're manifesting it in spades with he condescension and the idea that you're "helping" while being contrarian and bordering on paranoid schizophrenic with this idea that you've somehow figured out the truth and everyone else is wrong. Bringing up the facts as you interpret them to confirm your presuppositions is not skeptical, it's rationalizing and confirmation bias to boot. That never occur to you? To challenge yourself, to consider you might be wrong?

Or are you just gleefully hoping I die in 3-5 years, because clearly that's a common message thrown around: I'm just a guinea pig and you're more healthy somehow because you have "natural immunity", as if that prevents reinfection remotely (hint, it doesn't) or that anyone's claiming vaccines necessarily give lifelong immunity (they don't automatically, that takes time and study into it).

So if they get the live culture version for a vaccine, will you take that or is it enough to let millions die worldwide so you can feel like you're "standing your ground". Way to "own the libs".

muichimotsu said:

Wow...so you assume every study that you can find must have been replicated when that's becoming more a problem that we can't get that, yet those studies are then published anyway? There's following the science and then there's being a sheep that doesn't consider that science has issues in regards to how studies are funded, to say nothing of how they're pushed out as fact when that's not how science works, there's demonstrations, not facts, which are the things observed to reach a particular conclusion through experiements.

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So, because the studies I posted don't match what you want to believe; they must be faulty? (I posted several studies from various parts of the world; all of which basically said the same thing.) Yet than the other studies about HQC that were published (then retracted) from the Lancet! But those were OK because they supported the US MSM narrative; (well at least until they were retracted they did.)

We've known for 50 plus years that vitamins and zinc are effective at fighting infections. Shall we go and dig through all the studies on vitamins that predate 2019?

muichimotsu said:

I also know Israel has less than 10 million people, being the most vaccinated was never claimed to be a guarantee that you wouldn't still have hospitalizations, merely that they'd likely be lower.

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Except they weren't!

muichimotsu said:

Sounds more like you just don't like this technology and want to cherrypick anecdotal evidence to dismiss any efficacy when I could just as easily point to studies where the drug tested on animals was fine and then it happened to freaking kill people. Animal testing is borderline useless or certainly has limitations that we fail to recognize based on this status quo that we have to have testing in mice, which is not only wasteful, but not necessarily reflective of how humans respond.

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So why is it that you suppose they use animal models in the first place than?

muichimotsu said:

The variants are different, that's literally in the name, they are variations of the original, which means they're going to have different effects or even be able ot bypass the vaccine's inoculation against positive symptoms manifesting. And I'll get to the booster shots, which you apparently have no comprehension of how immunity works and is not 100% remotely with viruses, since they evolve

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Do you realize the "variant" is in the spike protein, not the virus itself. Coronaviruses themselves are pretty stable.

The mRNA "vaccine" only fires the immune system to deal with what ever portion of the spike the "vaccine" coded for. But if you actually recover from catching the virus; that fires the ENTIRE immune system. Not just making antibodies against 5 or 6 factors in the spike protein. And since it's the spike protein that actually mutates; what genius came up with the idea of making a "vaccine" off the spike protein?

Delta had a different spike protein shape than the original Covid; which the mRNA "vaccines" made off the original spike protein. That's why all the vaccinated were getting it, because the "vaccine" was like trying to drive an SUV on compact car tires. "Wrong tool for the job".

muichimotsu said:

Taking the information and processing it aren't the same thing, don't patronize me with this idea that, "It's so simple, what are you stupid?"

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Ehh.... so since you're apparently not "processing the information"; what are you doing with it? (This statement makes no sense.) Let's install software into a computer that we don't actually have the hardware to run it off! I'm sure that makes sense to Fauci!

muichimotsu said:

Oh, yeah those people who already have weakened immune systems because they're old? Are you seriously going to suggest that they'd be better off taking a higher chance of dying or complications from covid than the infinitesmally smaller likelihood of problems with the vaccine. Even the numbers don't help, you're ignoring the statistical representation and just using the bigness of the numbers relative to the thing you're trying to act like is being covered up in a big conspiracy with basically no justification besides these vague correlations and sycophantic acceptance of numbers that confirm preconceptions instead of exercising skepticism consistently, which is not reaching some absolutist polarizing claim that everyone who doesn't agree with you is essentially brainwashed.

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Except the problems with the vaccines are anything but "infinitesimally smaller".

According to Worldometer the US has nearly 800,000 deaths from Covid. Between the two data bases that have been made known to the public; we're looking at about 70,000 that have died from the vaccine. 70,000 is 8.7% of 800,000.

Now do you have any idea what the case fatality rate for Covid in the US is? It's 2%. 2% of the people in the U.S. who were known to have contracted Covid died. The fatality rate from the vaccine is higher than the fatality rate from the damn virus at this point!

Now if you compare fatality rate of the vaccine to number of people who got it? 70,000 is what % of 198,000,000. That is .0353%. Now do you know what the actual overall survival rate for Covid is? (The percentage of those who've died compared to total number infected - which is different from "case fatality rate". CFR are only those who died compared to those who became symptomatic.)

The CDC at this point has put the overall survival rate for Covid at 99% across the entire population.

0-19 year olds have a 99.997% survival rate. (.003% chance of dying)
20-49 year olds have a 99.98% survival rate. (.02% chance of dying)
50-69 year olds have a 99.5% survival rate. (.5% chance of dying)
70+ years old have a 94.6% survival rate. (5.4% chance of dying)

This means that for 1-49 year olds; based on the vaccine death data we have -
THEY HAVE A GREATER CHANCE OF DYING FROM THE VACCINE THAN FROM COVID ITSELF!

So for the CDC's 99% Covid survival rate means of the general population, one has the same chance of dying in a car crash, as they have of dying of Covid. For someone under 19 years old, they run a greater risk of dying of electrocution than dying of Covid. For people between 20 and 50, they have the same chance of dying in a motorcycle crash as they have of dying of Covid!

So.... now do you think "public health policy" maybe should warrant some skepticism?
Maybe???

muichimotsu said:

Just because you can point to them doesn't mean that's the trend remotely, that's more cherry picking on your part, desperately grasping at straws to try and claim this isn't that bad because you want to avoid any cognitive dissonance

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I want to avoid cognitive dissonance.... Hum???? Maybe that.... virus would fit if it had more than a 99% overall survival rate!

muichimotsu said:

Maybe tone down this condescension, it's not helping. And I seriously doubt it does that for everyone anymore than one could point out some deadly aspect of aspirin, which is primarily a problem if you overuse it, like with anything in regards to the dose making the poison.

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I should tone down the condescension.... Hum???? I saved the life of and cured my 19 year old son of Covid by spending about $100. on supplements I bought at the grocery store. A protocol that you were so animate at declaring to me would not work!

Hum.... hold my beer!

muichimotsu said:

Pretty sure I never even insinuated that was the only preventative measure, so nice strawman, yet again. Of course there are other factors, since even from a cursory understanding, there are 3 other methods of infection from a virus besides the droplets that the mask would protect from with decent efficacy, but never 100%

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Hum??? So what are those .... 3 other methods of infection? I have heard you can catch Covid through your eyes. I guess it can fly into your ear? We're only left with a couple other.... body orifices to choose from..... But... it's most likely that it came through the mask! Particularly considering that besides the fever, his most notable symptom was shortness of breath!

muichimotsu said:

Same with the tests, no one's claiming they're perfect and 70% is still fairly good and likely could be improved with time, but you act like it's just intentionally left in poor status when the whole consumerist aspect and commercialized nature of this creates that unfortunate side effect where we rush it out because that's how we make more money.

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"Big pharma doesn't cure you dog; cause every patient that gets cured is a customer lost"

muichimotsu said:

I seriously doubt PCR is so inaccurate that we cannot determine infection rates to a degree where it's worse. And you admit the death rate is likely higher, so why are you downplaying the idea that because maybe we don't always get accurate results (or someone doesn't read it right, that's also quite possible) that somehow there's still a conspiracy even though people are treating this like a public health emergency and rightfully so

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Are you aware that they guy who invented the PCR test said that it shouldn't be used to try and diagnose illness?

muichimotsu said:

The problem is this attitude that it's everyone else's fault and you "took every precaution" when you're taking a DIY approach to this and thinking viruses haven't gotten some way to deal with these home remedies and the like that you put forward, when evolution doesn't stop in nature, especially with viruses that literally can't survive apart from that principle of adaptation and improvements, including resistance (like with bacteria and antibiotics becoming increasingly useless because of overprescription)

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LOL - $100. worth of supplements bought at the grocery store saved my son's life and got rid of what the ER doctor said was "most likely Covid". As opposed to.... how much are the pharmaceutical companies making off of this?

Yeah... viruses mutate and with some additional help from vitamins and minerals we need anyways - the immune system adapts!

And you say it can't be done?
I'll say it again. Hold my beer!

muichimotsu said:

The data doesn't speak for itself, that's the naivete you seem to think will just "convince" people when there's a few hurdles here: 1) misinformation and 2) technical knowledge barriers. Couple that with Dunning Kruger effect and you've got a perfect storm of people thinking they know more than they do

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Speaking of "misinformation" and "technically knowledge barriers". If the data has nothing to say; why are we collecting it?

muichimotsu said:

Why? Because you think I've infected others while vaccinated and also taking precautions? Because you want to blame someone else while sitting on your high horse and thinking you're in the right? No one needs this holier than thou attitude and you're manifesting it in spades with he condescension and the idea that you're "helping" while being contrarian and bordering on paranoid schizophrenic with this idea that you've somehow figured out the truth and everyone else is wrong. Bringing up the facts as you interpret them to confirm your presuppositions is not skeptical, it's rationalizing and confirmation bias to boot. That never occur to you? To challenge yourself, to consider you might be wrong?

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Where's the data that speaks for your opinion? Oh yeah.... that's right; data doesn't speak for itself.

muichimotsu said:

Or are you just gleefully hoping I die in 3-5 years, because clearly that's a common message thrown around: I'm just a guinea pig and you're more healthy somehow because you have "natural immunity", as if that prevents reinfection remotely (hint, it doesn't) or that anyone's claiming vaccines necessarily give lifelong immunity (they don't automatically, that takes time and study into it).

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Think of it this way; once you actually get Covid and recover from it; you'd graduate from guinea pig status! All you'll have to do is go to the grocery store and spend $100. on vitamin C, D, zinc, Quercetin and NAC! Take it as soon as you get sick and you'll probably be fine!

muichimotsu said:

So if they get the live culture version for a vaccine, will you take that or is it enough to let millions die worldwide so you can feel like you're "standing your ground". Way to "own the libs".

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If you've had chicken pox; do you still need a chicken pox vaccine?

And if the vaccine works so well, why would you be worried about people like me?

So, because the studies I posted don't match what you want to believe; they must be faulty? (I posted several studies from various parts of the world; all of which basically said the same thing.) Yet than the other studies about HQC that were published (then retracted) from the Lancet! But those were OK because they supported the US MSM narrative; (well at least until they were retracted they did.)

We've known for 50 plus years that vitamins and zinc are effective at fighting infections. Shall we go and dig through all the studies on vitamins that predate 2019?

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Effective, not perfect, don't act like infections are just going to go away because you bought into a mainstream idea that was propped up by a scientist barely worth his salt that promoted the idea in the 30s. Linus Pauling ring a bell? Guy that thought vitamins could cure freaking cancer?

Except they weren't!

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So because you can cherry pick this, that means it must be the case everywhere? Not sure if you're aware, that's fallacious logic of a compositional nature.

So why is it that you suppose they use animal models in the first place than?

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Because the system needs fixing, I don't think we're in disagreement there, merely on what the repairs should result in.

Do you realize the "variant" is in the spike protein, not the virus itself. Coronaviruses themselves are pretty stable.

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So they just never die on surfaces? Even though I'm pretty sure we've established they do. The variants are part of the coronaviruses, no one is being this pedantic but you in regards to addressing that variants are going to change things up rather than just be business as usual. Do you deny there was a major spike in the summer of cases and deaths, particularly in the unvaccinated in America? And no, let's just focus on America, we don't need more sidetracks on a situation that has different factors versus America where we still have easily 40% of people who accept creationism and is supposed to be "advanced" as a society

The mRNA "vaccine" only fires the immune system to deal with what ever portion of the spike the "vaccine" coded for. But if you actually recover from catching the virus; that fires the ENTIRE immune system. Not just making antibodies against 5 or 6 factors in the spike protein. And since it's the spike protein that actually mutates; what genius came up with the idea of making a "vaccine" off the spike protein?

Delta had a different spike protein shape than the original Covid; which the mRNA "vaccines" made off the original spike protein. That's why all the vaccinated were getting it, because the "vaccine" was like trying to drive an SUV on compact car tires. "Wrong tool for the job".

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So we just don't need the flu shot at all? You're sounding more and more like you want to throw caution to the wind because you think you know better from Google researching on WebMD and the like instead of having even an iota of actual humility and consider a compromise instead of digging in your heels constantly

It still reduced hospitalizations for the vaccinated and offers some resistance, none of the vaccines promise 100% efficacy even against the original strain. It's like you're only hearing what you want to while accusing me of the same: people in glass houses and stones...

Ehh.... so since you're apparently not "processing the information"; what are you doing with it? (This statement makes no sense.) Let's install software into a computer that we don't actually have the hardware to run it off! I'm sure that makes sense to Fauci!

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It's not that simple, because the computer analogy is only vaguely equivalent when talking about biological "hardware" and the nature of viruses and immune response. You talk like you know what you're talking about and then show that you can talk with this pretentious invocation of facts while not understanding the application and models themselves.

Except the problems with the vaccines are anything but "infinitesimally smaller".

According to Worldometer the US has nearly 800,000 deaths from Covid. Between the two data bases that have been made known to the public; we're looking at about 70,000 that have died from the vaccine. 70,000 is 8.7% of 800,000.

Now do you have any idea what the case fatality rate for Covid in the US is? It's 2%. 2% of the people in the U.S. who were known to have contracted Covid died. The fatality rate from the vaccine is higher than the fatality rate from the damn virus at this point!

Now if you compare fatality rate of the vaccine to number of people who got it? 70,000 is what % of 198,000,000. That is .0353%. Now do you know what the actual overall survival rate for Covid is? (The percentage of those who've died compared to total number infected - which is different from "case fatality rate". CFR are only those who died compared to those who became symptomatic.)

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Pretty sure the 8% you erroneously bring up is not the death rate relative to vaccination, only in comparison to the deaths from covid, which is not the note of concern. It's the fatality rate in relation to those infected and dying from the two control aspects: covid and a vaccine.

Numbers in fully vaxxed are shifting, you can't use the instance you have as anything representative of something final and at best you're fearmongering based on some superficial understanding of statistics you think you have. The asymptomatic spread throws the entire assessment into a new model, which you seem to want to deny and just focus on a particular aspect that suits your demonizing of vaccines and saying that "you won't conform" while conforming to your little cult.

And yes, I'll call it that, I don't care, because you cant' seem to recognize the cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias present here where you use science to confirm something you've already concluded is true and ignore anything contrary to it.

So for the CDC's 99% Covid survival rate means of the general population, one has the same chance of dying in a car crash, as they have of dying of Covid. For someone under 19 years old, they run a greater risk of dying of electrocution than dying of Covid. For people between 20 and 50, they have the same chance of dying in a motorcycle crash as they have of dying of Covid!

So.... now do you think "public health policy" maybe should warrant some skepticism?
Maybe???

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Weird that you demonize the MSM, but suddenly trust the CDC? Seems like you're more of a conformer than you think if you take them seriously, since apparently they're supposed to be involved with this conspiracy you're dangerously close to bleeding into with this anti vax/"pro choice" tirade

There's skepticism and then there's intransigent contrarian attitudes that think everything is done with malicious intent to manipulate the masses while also bemoaning communism and conflating that. But sure, believe in a death cult with a messiah that can't keep the message straight as to who he's supposed to be preaching to and encourages fighting in the world because, "the road is narrow"

I want to avoid cognitive dissonance.... Hum???? Maybe that.... virus would fit if it had more than a 99% overall survival rate!

Click to expand...

Survival rate is hardly that simple to assess, because you're talking about numbers that are continuing to shift versus an overall assessment once things are actually even contained to a relative sense (we have flu season, but apparently no danger there, you're totally fine regardless of age...)

Plus you entirely ignore long covid and the taxing effect that has on society and healthcare, even conservative estimates putting that at 30% of those infected, way more than those dead. But sure, "it's not that bad, let's just spread this virus because our immune systems can never kill us"

I should tone down the condescension.... Hum???? I saved the life of and cured my 19 year old son of Covid by spending about $100. on supplements I bought at the grocery store. A protocol that you were so animate at declaring to me would not work!

Hum.... hold my beer!

Click to expand...

Sure, you're the "hero" here by participating in what could be argued as its own conspiracy of Big Pharma. But no, you're not that deep into the rabbit hole, you just think there's malicious intent to kill people via experiments, apparently.

You mean...adamant? Little spellcheck wouldn't hurt with the novellas you're writing. Eat some crow and move on to something else besides engaging on social media with the toxic elements it manifests

Hum??? So what are those .... 3 other methods of infection? I have heard you can catch Covid through your eyes. I guess it can fly into your ear? We're only left with a couple other.... body orifices to choose from..... But... it's most likely that it came through the mask! Particularly considering that besides the fever, his most notable symptom was shortness of breath!

Click to expand...

*facepalm* I mean contact based, fomite based and aerosolized particles. This didn't take that long to research, yet you keep talking down to me like you're an expert because you've read health blogs and alternative medicine (ooh, color me "impressed")

The mask protects both ways, though not perfectly in either case. And are you just going with the idea that because it's not 100% effective, it's useless? I guess you never need a doctor to wear a mask while doing surgery, hm? Are we going with the idiotic idea that because the virus is smaller than the holes in the mask, that they're useless? Except that's not how viral transmission works, they need a MEDIUM, they don't just float around, the closest to that would till be an aerosolized particle

"Big pharma doesn't cure you dog; cause every patient that gets cured is a customer lost"

Click to expand...

Pretty sure I never used the word cure, so nice try. Alleviating problems is the goal of medicine, not eliminating them because...nature doesn't exist in a vacuum. Imagine that!

Are you aware that they guy who invented the PCR test said that it shouldn't be used to try and diagnose illness?

Click to expand...

So more quote mining and dismissal based on historical precedence you think that establishes? Pretty sure the guy who invented the polygraph said it wasn't that effective, yet we still insist it's somehow that reliable when it isn't close. PCR is more reliable than the polygraph. Or is that an invalid comparison?

LOL - $100. worth of supplements bought at the grocery store saved my son's life and got rid of what the ER doctor said was "most likely Covid". As opposed to.... how much are the pharmaceutical companies making off of this?

Yeah... viruses mutate and with some additional help from vitamins and minerals we need anyways - the immune system adapts!

And you say it can't be done?
I'll say it again. Hold my beer!

Click to expand...

I'm saying it's no guarantee, especially if your son supposedly has other issues that could exacerbate Covid symptoms or cause complications otherwise. We bring up that idea that parents know their children best, but that's not remotely true when it comes to their own biases in thinking they know better than experts who can be more objective in assessments. Not perfectly, but certainly more than someone who is being overly sentimental and protecting their baby chicks like a mother hen

Not everyone's does and the responses are not 100% because we aren't robots, we're not all standardized.

Speaking of "misinformation" and "technically knowledge barriers". If the data has nothing to say; why are we collecting it?

Click to expand...

Apparently the idea of metaphor escapes you: the data says nothing in itself, same as the bible says nothing in itself, it's how people interpret both that determines the understanding we have

Think of it this way; once you actually get Covid and recover from it; you'd graduate from guinea pig status! All you'll have to do is go to the grocery store and spend $100. on vitamin C, D, zinc, Quercetin and NAC! Take it as soon as you get sick and you'll probably be fine!

Click to expand...

Yeah, except pretty sure that's not true in all cases anyway, you treat this like a panacea, when it's mitigating at best and very well could have a placebo effect in regards to stuff like Emergen-C and other such things.

If you've had chicken pox; do you still need a chicken pox vaccine?

And if the vaccine works so well, why would you be worried about people like me?

Click to expand...

Not all vaccines are equal, so you've already started off on the wrong foot with comparing a coronavirus to a herpesvirus (which is far more common and far less dangerous overall). Chickenpox is distinct from, say, shingles, which my maternal grandmother struggled with for a bit. Does she not need a vaccine so she can avoid problems later?

It's like the very idea of protecting the vulnerable that cannot get the vaccine even if they wanted it just goes over your head. Or you've bought into a conspiracy theory that you keep avoiding might be implicated in your discussion. Using terms like MSM doesn't help your case either, that's not even dogwhistling at that point, it's point black admission that you've fallen down a spiral of irrational thinking.

I'm worried about my parents potentially dying from this because they're older, first off, because I'm not a Machiavellian that has virtually no empathy for others and twists their words constantly so they can have the dominance in a power dynamic. I care about others that are vulnerable, I care about avoiding people going into medical debt over a preventable situation that you want to act like we're wasting our time instead of offering a solution that isn't selective observation and dismissal of MSM while claiming you're the "rational" one instead of poisoning the well

muichimotsu said:

Effective, not perfect, don't act like infections are just going to go away because you bought into a mainstream idea that was propped up by a scientist barely worth his salt that promoted the idea in the 30s. Linus Pauling ring a bell? Guy that thought vitamins could cure freaking cancer?

Click to expand...

Except all those studies I posted were specific to Covid and were not done in the 30's.

muichimotsu said:

So because you can cherry pick this, that means it must be the case everywhere? Not sure if you're aware, that's fallacious logic of a compositional nature.

Click to expand...

The same vaccines were used in Europe and Israel that were used in the US. - and yet you some how believe magically that Americans are different than Europeans or Israelis.... and just because our media is saying something different than theirs.

It doesn't dawn on you that maybe the American media is lying; because what would be the point of the European or Israeli health ministries "bad mouthing" such great vaccines?

Hum????

muichimotsu said:

Because the system needs fixing, I don't think we're in disagreement there, merely on what the repairs should result in.

Click to expand...

And do you really believe that "fixing the system" would have changed the outcome that the animals died of the mRNA vaccines? And particularly when the same thing is happening to the humans now?

Seems to me the data is pretty consistent on this!

muichimotsu said:

So they just never die on surfaces? Even though I'm pretty sure we've established they do. The variants are part of the coronaviruses, no one is being this pedantic but you in regards to addressing that variants are going to change things up rather than just be business as usual. Do you deny there was a major spike in the summer of cases and deaths, particularly in the unvaccinated in America? And no, let's just focus on America, we don't need more sidetracks on a situation that has different factors versus America where we still have easily 40% of people who accept creationism and is supposed to be "advanced" as a society

Click to expand...

Do you know what a coronavirus looks like; or the components it's made of? Did you pass biology class; because you seem to have very little understanding of how viruses invade cells and what's actually in a virus.

Which again; was it actually the unvaccinated or the vaccinated who were the majority of the hospital patients? The American data and the data from the rest of the world are saying two different things? Did Americans come from Mars; that these vaccines magically work on Americans when they don't work on anyone else?

That must be it! Americans are from Mars, but the rest of the world is from Earth!

How many Americans do you think believe it was "just the unvaccinated" who were filling the hospitals?

muichimotsu said:

So we just don't need the flu shot at all? You're sounding more and more like you want to throw caution to the wind because you think you know better from Google researching on WebMD and the like instead of having even an iota of actual humility and consider a compromise instead of digging in your heels constantly

It still reduced hospitalizations for the vaccinated and offers some resistance, none of the vaccines promise 100% efficacy even against the original strain. It's like you're only hearing what you want to while accusing me of the same: people in glass houses and stones...

Click to expand...

Have the humility to do the research. The data does not support what you are saying.

muichimotsu said:

It's not that simple, because the computer analogy is only vaguely equivalent when talking about biological "hardware" and the nature of viruses and immune response. You talk like you know what you're talking about and then show that you can talk with this pretentious invocation of facts while not understanding the application and models themselves.

Click to expand...

Coming from someone who rejects the research; that's really telling!

And the fact that the CDC and the MSM are not consistent should also tell you something!

muichimotsu said:

Pretty sure the 8% you erroneously bring up is not the death rate relative to vaccination, only in comparison to the deaths from covid, which is not the note of concern. It's the fatality rate in relation to those infected and dying from the two control aspects: covid and a vaccine.

Click to expand...

LOL - The rate of those who've died of the vaccine compared to those who've died of Covid is 8% to 2%. That should tell you something; but apparently it doesn't!

muichimotsu said:

Numbers in fully vaxxed are shifting, you can't use the instance you have as anything representative of something final and at best you're fearmongering based on some superficial understanding of statistics you think you have. The asymptomatic spread throws the entire assessment into a new model, which you seem to want to deny and just focus on a particular aspect that suits your demonizing of vaccines and saying that "you won't conform" while conforming to your little cult.

Click to expand...

The numbers I used for the people who are vaccinated in the US, came off a website that is quoting CDC numbers. Personally, I don't think those numbers are accurate. I think the vaccination percentiles in the US are lower than 60%; but I did give you the "official numbers".

And yes, I clearly see that you are afraid!

muichimotsu said:

And yes, I'll call it that, I don't care, because you cant' seem to recognize the cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias present here where you use science to confirm something you've already concluded is true and ignore anything contrary to it.

Click to expand...

Hum??? .... you acknowledge that I use science; yet tell me I'm guilty of cognitive dissonance; when you yourself have no science to back up what you want to believe?

Intersting!

muichimotsu said:

There's skepticism and then there's intransigent contrarian attitudes that think everything is done with malicious intent to manipulate the masses while also bemoaning communism and conflating that. But sure, believe in a death cult with a messiah that can't keep the message straight as to who he's supposed to be preaching to and encourages fighting in the world because, "the road is narrow"

Click to expand...

So are you a communist? (Who is apparently conflating two different world views based on what you assume Christianity says.)

Seeing how your profile says you live in the US; have you ever traveled to any other place in the world? Ever talked to someone who is old enough to have lived under communism in either eastern Europe or the Soviet Union? How about a Cuban; or a Chinese immigrant?

muichimotsu said:

Survival rate is hardly that simple to assess, because you're talking about numbers that are continuing to shift versus an overall assessment once things are actually even contained to a relative sense (we have flu season, but apparently no danger there, you're totally fine regardless of age...)

Click to expand...

Those weren't my numbers. That was CDC data!

muichimotsu said:

Plus you entirely ignore long covid and the taxing effect that has on society and healthcare, even conservative estimates putting that at 30% of those infected, way more than those dead. But sure, "it's not that bad, let's just spread this virus because our immune systems can never kill us"

Click to expand...

Curious where you missed the fact that I told you I had "long haul Covid"?

Me thinks you need to pay closer attention to what I actually write!

muichimotsu said:

Sure, you're the "hero" here by participating in what could be argued as its own conspiracy of Big Pharma. But no, you're not that deep into the rabbit hole, you just think there's malicious intent to kill people via experiments, apparently.

Click to expand...

"Big pharma doesn't cure you dog; because every patient that gets cured is a customer lost!"

Who makes any money on selling vitamin C, D and zinc?

Less than $100. to cure Covid and remind me; how much is a round of Rendesivire?

My son is on 3 different medications for his epilepsy.
Valporic Acid - which is a generic is like $12.00 a month.
Levocarnitine - which is also a generic (it's actually a supplement thats prescribed)
$50.00 a month
Vimpat - (still under patent) $950. a month

And you want me to believe that big pharma isn't in this for the money?

That's cute - really it is!

muichimotsu said:

You mean...adamant? Little spellcheck wouldn't hurt with the novellas you're writing. Eat some crow and move on to something else besides engaging on social media with the toxic elements it manifests

Click to expand...

LOL - You know you misspelled "fear mongering"?

And speaking of "toxic elements"; if I'm so "toxic" why are you talking to me?

But you know maybe "animate" does fit your response to me?

muichimotsu said:

*facepalm* I mean contact based, fomite based and aerosolized particles. This didn't take that long to research, yet you keep talking down to me like you're an expert because you've read health blogs and alternative medicine (ooh, color me "impressed")

Click to expand...

And.... aerosolized goes through...... a mask! Glad you researched that. They pretty much eliminated fomite transmission quite some time ago now.

muichimotsu said:

The mask protects both ways, though not perfectly in either case. And are you just going with the idea that because it's not 100% effective, it's useless? I guess you never need a doctor to wear a mask while doing surgery, hm? Are we going with the idiotic idea that because the virus is smaller than the holes in the mask, that they're useless? Except that's not how viral transmission works, they need a MEDIUM, they don't just float around, the closest to that would till be an aerosolized particle

Click to expand...

You make a lot of assumption about what you think I know without ever asking. You know that don't you?

And yes, it is true that logic dictates that if the viral particles are smaller than the spaces in the mask; it's not going to prevent you from getting it. Basically you'd need to wear a painter's mask to avoid aerosolized Covid; seeing how aerosolized particles hang in the water vapor of the air.

muichimotsu said:

Pretty sure I never used the word cure, so nice try. Alleviating problems is the goal of medicine, not eliminating them because...nature doesn't exist in a vacuum. Imagine that!

Click to expand...

So..... you just want to "alleviate" a bacterial infection and not actually cure it?

If one is obese and has type 2 diabetes and hypertension; we don't want to eliminate the problem (by losing weight) because .... nature doesn't exist in a vacuum.

You're right "nature doesn't exist in a vacuum". The obese type 2 diabetic got that way from eating too much processed food that's full of preservatives and high fructose corn syrup. You know how much sugar is in 16 oz of soda; and that your liver can't process 74 grams of sugar. (You aint got that much insulin). So all your body can do, is turn a bottle of soda into fat.

"because nature doesn't exist in a vacuum"!

muichimotsu said:

So more quote mining and dismissal based on historical precedence you think that establishes? Pretty sure the guy who invented the polygraph said it wasn't that effective, yet we still insist it's somehow that reliable when it isn't close. PCR is more reliable than the polygraph. Or is that an invalid comparison?

Click to expand...

So... then why come January they are no longer using PCR tests?

Lab Alert: Changes to CDC RT-PCR for SARS-CoV-2 Testing

muichimotsu said:

I'm saying it's no guarantee, especially if your son supposedly has other issues that could exacerbate Covid symptoms or cause complications otherwise. We bring up that idea that parents know their children best, but that's not remotely true when it comes to their own biases in thinking they know better than experts who can be more objective in assessments. Not perfectly, but certainly more than someone who is being overly sentimental and protecting their baby chicks like a mother hen

Click to expand...

Hum???? Given his other health issues; isn't that called "comorbidities". Aren't comorbidities a BIGGER risk factor in Covid? Now, how well I think (or don't think) I know my kid does not affect how vitamin C, D or Zinc impacts the human immune system. The ER doctor didn't tell me I was wrong and... they did discharge the kid.

"Overly sentimental" would not have saved his life if the treatment didn't work! Have you ever heard the saying: "Facts don't care about your feelings." Well, his immune system doesn't care about my feelings!

muichimotsu said:

Not everyone's does and the responses are not 100% because we aren't robots, we're not all standardized.

Click to expand...

It is true that some people have more vitamin D, C, and zinc in their systems and that's why they don't get very sick from Covid.

The research studies I posted did show a distinct correlation between how much D, C and zinc someone had in their system and how fast they recovered from Covid. Increased saturation in the blood and they recovered faster. It's like..... magic!

muichimotsu said:

Apparently the idea of metaphor escapes you: the data says nothing in itself, same as the bible says nothing in itself, it's how people interpret both that determines the understanding we have

Click to expand...

You're the one who said data has nothing to say; not me. So in order to "interpret" it; one must be "processing" it somehow. Right......??? Which you've aptly acquiesced to my point, that data is not useless.

So thus if the data is saying something other than what you believe; what's wrong; the data - or you?

muichimotsu said:

Yeah, except pretty sure that's not true in all cases anyway, you treat this like a panacea, when it's mitigating at best and very well could have a placebo effect in regards to stuff like Emergen-C and other such things.

Click to expand...

Do you realize that the immune system operates something like baking a cake. It's not going to function if all the ingredients aren't there in the right amount. And the amazing thing about your body is that if it has too much of a vitamin or mineral; it either won't absorb it; or it will excrete the excess. But if there's not enough to begin with then... the outcome at fighting infection is at best - not optimal.

muichimotsu said:

Not all vaccines are equal, so you've already started off on the wrong foot with comparing a coronavirus to a herpesvirus (which is far more common and far less dangerous overall). Chickenpox is distinct from, say, shingles, which my maternal grandmother struggled with for a bit. Does she not need a vaccine so she can avoid problems later?

Click to expand...

Coronaviruses and herpes simplex II? Do you know what coronaviruses usually cause in human beings? = Colds! Most coronaviruses cause the common cold! There are two that could cause pneumonia; but that doesn't happen in healthy people.

Chicken pox and shingles is actually the same virus. If your grandmother didn't have chicken pox at some point in her life; she would not get shingles later on. Herpes simplex II emerges as shingles later on; if the immune system is depressed. Now a lot of people who get the mRNA shots are coming up with shingles. Why.... because it suppresses the immune system.

And you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT HERE = NOT ALL VACCINES ARE CREATED EQUAL!

One of the safest and most effective vaccines humans have ever developed was the oral polio vaccine.

Another vaccine that's generally pretty safe is tetanus. Some people have reactions to the "tetanus protein" aspect of the tetanus shot; but it's generally well tolerated. The "platform" that most tetanus shots are administered on involves putting the tetanus protein into an adenovirus medium. Adenoviruses (like coronaviruses) generally cause colds. The safest vaccines use a human adenovirus as their platform. It's quite safe because most people's bodies recognize a common cold virus.

Now there actually is a Covid vaccine out there; that uses a human adenovirus as its platform. That vaccine is called "Sputnik V" and was developed by the Russians. To date that is the safest and generally most effective Covid vaccine we have. The AstraZeneca vaccine is also developed on the same platform except it uses a monkey adenovirus instead of a human one. The AstraZeneca shot has had more adverse reactions and some deaths. A recent study out of Argentina (2.5 million people) who got the Sputnik shot reported no deaths and the least adverse reactions of all the Covid vaccines. That can not be said for any of the mRNA vaccines! AstraZeneca has had some fatalities; but not HARDLY as many as the Pfizer one. Moderna is #2 for fatality rates. Now why are those the only two being offered in the US?

muichimotsu said:

It's like the very idea of protecting the vulnerable that cannot get the vaccine even if they wanted it just goes over your head. Or you've bought into a conspiracy theory that you keep avoiding might be implicated in your discussion. Using terms like MSM doesn't help your case either, that's not even dogwhistling at that point, it's point black admission that you've fallen down a spiral of irrational thinking.

Click to expand...

Again an assumption you make. How do you know that I'm not one of those people who should't get the mRNA shot, because I actually have an autoimmune issue caused by exposure to chemical and biological weapons?

How come you just assume that I'm just a selfish and ignorant conspiracy theorist?

Do you know what the term MSM means? (Mainstream media). And are you aware that the mainstream media uses the term mainstream media when referring to themselves? (Your accusations are baseless and silly.)

muichimotsu said:

I'm worried about my parents potentially dying from this because they're older, first off, because I'm not a Machiavellian that has virtually no empathy for others and twists their words constantly so they can have the dominance in a power dynamic. I care about others that are vulnerable, I care about avoiding people going into medical debt over a preventable situation that you want to act like we're wasting our time instead of offering a solution that isn't selective observation and dismissal of MSM while claiming you're the "rational" one instead of poisoning the well

Click to expand...

And I'm telling you that if your parent have enough vitamin C, D and zinc in their system; the likelihood that they will die is far less. And the only thing you need to do, to know whether or not this is true is, simply look it up for yourself. Don't sit there and scream at me that i'm wrong when you haven't even researched it yourself.

Yeah, you are scared. There are a lot of people who are scared. There are things you can do to alleviate some of that fear though. (We aren't dealing with small pox here - at least not yet!) The thing that really [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es me off about this pandemic; is that there's so much of it that's preventable. A lot of people have died who didn't have to. A lot of people will continue to die because the MSM and the CDC are lying to you.

What have you got to loose from taking vitamin C, D and zinc? They won't hurt you. And yes, your body actually makes the components in NAC.

None of this is rocket science. It's simple measures that people can take to help mitigate the progression of illness WHEN they contract it. And yes, you will get it. If you haven't already had Covid, you will get it eventually. It DOES NOT have to kill you. It DOES NOT have to kill your parents. This thing is very treatable. Millions of people around the world are proof of that.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AFRAID OF THIS!

The Righterzpen said:

And.... aerosolized goes through...... a mask! Glad you researched that. They pretty much eliminated fomite transmission quite some time ago now.



You make a lot of assumption about what you think I know without ever asking. You know that don't you?

And yes, it is true that logic dictates that if the viral particles are smaller than the spaces in the mask; it's not going to prevent you from getting it. Basically you'd need to wear a painter's mask to avoid aerosolized Covid; seeing how aerosolized particles hang in the water vapor of the air.



So..... you just want to "alleviate" a bacterial infection and not actually cure it?

If one is obese and has type 2 diabetes and hypertension; we don't want to eliminate the problem (by losing weight) because .... nature doesn't exist in a vacuum.

You're right "nature doesn't exist in a vacuum". The obese type 2 diabetic got that way from eating too much processed food that's full of preservatives and high fructose corn syrup. You know how much sugar is in 16 oz of soda; and that your liver can't process 74 grams of sugar. (You aint got that much insulin). So all your body can do, is turn a bottle of soda into fat.

"because nature doesn't exist in a vacuum"!



So... then why come January they are no longer using PCR tests?

Lab Alert: Changes to CDC RT-PCR for SARS-CoV-2 Testing



Hum???? Given his other health issues; isn't that called "comorbidities". Aren't comorbidities a BIGGER risk factor in Covid? Now, how well I think (or don't think) I know my kid does not affect how vitamin C, D or Zinc impacts the human immune system. The ER doctor didn't tell me I was wrong and... they did discharge the kid.

"Overly sentimental" would not have saved his life if the treatment didn't work! Have you ever heard the saying: "Facts don't care about your feelings." Well, his immune system doesn't care about my feelings!



It is true that some people have more vitamin D, C, and zinc in their systems and that's why they don't get very sick from Covid.

The research studies I posted did show a distinct correlation between how much D, C and zinc someone had in their system and how fast they recovered from Covid. Increased saturation in the blood and they recovered faster. It's like..... magic!



You're the one who said data has nothing to say; not me. So in order to "interpret" it; one must be "processing" it somehow. Right......??? Which you've aptly acquiesced to my point, that data is not useless.

So thus if the data is saying something other than what you believe; what's wrong; the data - or you?



Do you realize that the immune system operates something like baking a cake. It's not going to function if all the ingredients aren't there in the right amount. And the amazing thing about your body is that if it has too much of a vitamin or mineral; it either won't absorb it; or it will excrete the excess. But if there's not enough to begin with then... the outcome at fighting infection is at best - not optimal.



Coronaviruses and herpes simplex II? Do you know what coronaviruses usually cause in human beings? = Colds! Most coronaviruses cause the common cold! There are two that could cause pneumonia; but that doesn't happen in healthy people.

Chicken pox and shingles is actually the same virus. If your grandmother didn't have chicken pox at some point in her life; she would not get shingles later on. Herpes simplex II emerges as shingles later on; if the immune system is depressed. Now a lot of people who get the mRNA shots are coming up with shingles. Why.... because it suppresses the immune system.

And you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT HERE = NOT ALL VACCINES ARE CREATED EQUAL!

One of the safest and most effective vaccines humans have ever developed was the oral polio vaccine.

Another vaccine that's generally pretty safe is tetanus. Some people have reactions to the "tetanus protein" aspect of the tetanus shot; but it's generally well tolerated. The "platform" that most tetanus shots are administered on involves putting the tetanus protein into an adenovirus medium. Adenoviruses (like coronaviruses) generally cause colds. The safest vaccines use a human adenovirus as their platform. It's quite safe because most people's bodies recognize a common cold virus.

Now there actually is a Covid vaccine out there; that uses a human adenovirus as its platform. That vaccine is called "Sputnik V" and was developed by the Russians. To date that is the safest and generally most effective Covid vaccine we have. The AstraZeneca vaccine is also developed on the same platform except it uses a monkey adenovirus instead of a human one. The AstraZeneca shot has had more adverse reactions and some deaths. A recent study out of Argentina (2.5 million people) who got the Sputnik shot reported no deaths and the least adverse reactions of all the Covid vaccines. That can not be said for any of the mRNA vaccines! AstraZeneca has had some fatalities; but not HARDLY as many as the Pfizer one. Moderna is #2 for fatality rates. Now why are those the only two being offered in the US?



Again an assumption you make. How do you know that I'm not one of those people who should't get the mRNA shot, because I actually have an autoimmune issue caused by exposure to chemical and biological weapons?

How come you just assume that I'm just a selfish and ignorant conspiracy theorist?

Do you know what the term MSM means? (Mainstream media). And are you aware that the mainstream media uses the term mainstream media when referring to themselves? (Your accusations are baseless and silly.)



And I'm telling you that if your parent have enough vitamin C, D and zinc in their system; the likelihood that they will die is far less. And the only thing you need to do, to know whether or not this is true is, simply look it up for yourself. Don't sit there and scream at me that i'm wrong when you haven't even researched it yourself.

Yeah, you are scared. There are a lot of people who are scared. There are things you can do to alleviate some of that fear though. (We aren't dealing with small pox here - at least not yet!) The thing that really [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es me off about this pandemic; is that there's so much of it that's preventable. A lot of people have died who didn't have to. A lot of people will continue to die because the MSM and the CDC are lying to you.

What have you got to loose from taking vitamin C, D and zinc? They won't hurt you. And yes, your body actually makes the components in NAC.

None of this is rocket science. It's simple measures that people can take to help mitigate the progression of illness WHEN they contract it. And yes, you will get it. If you haven't already had Covid, you will get it eventually. It DOES NOT have to kill you. It DOES NOT have to kill your parents. This thing is very treatable. Millions of people around the world are proof of that.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AFRAID OF THIS!

Click to expand...

Fear is not innately wrong in moderation, so you've ended on a notion that mischaracterizes what I'm advocating for, which is vigilance versus complacency in thinking you have all the answers and won't have any problems ever. And claims of lying versus inaccurate data that keeps shifting is an ambitious one that isn't solving the problem, it's just demonizing a group instead of addressing things in a rational manner that doesn't treat people like children for taking the best advice they can reasonably get. Expertise is not a guarantee of never being wrong.

Yeah, I may already have had it and hopefully after vaccination because we cannot say with any remote certainty that people of any age range are unlikely to die or have long covid, the former the only thing you seem to dismiss as any threat while selectively ignoring that we do have those deaths. Are we just going to go around in circles and have you just allege we're getting weaker and then hawk your Linus Pauling notions that vitamins are some cure all?

And no, the J&J was paused, pretty sure it's still available. No one is claiming there's only 3, but you act like availability is just so easy when America continues to dig a deeper hole in the idea that it's the savior of the world, yet hoards vaccines and burns bridges so we can't actually have any sense of real competition or a free market in terms of vaccine availability, to say nothing of the FDA's process even for EUA.

Effectiveness is not absolutely guaranteed against every strain, you've admitted that yourself, so you can't tout the adenovirus vaccines as somehow more effective when J&J's adenovirus was maybe 66% effective and only jumps up to 80 or 90% when you get a booster. No one is treating vaccines like they are a cure all here and you're embellishing the deaths and spinning statistics to act like because fatality is less likely from covid that the vaccine is more dangerous when I'm pretty sure even factoring in other concerns, the likelihoods are not such that the cure is worse than the disease that you want to keep downplaying because, "it's just a cold," (your own words, not mine)

Oh, big point you missed: CDC isn't abandoning PCRs entirely, I checked your link, you apparently missed a VERY important detail that they're replacing it with another PCR test that's more current versus the one from February 2020. Take your own advice and don't spout hot air to bluster about like you're top dog, you're a minnow in the ocean, like anyone that isn't born into affluence.

Oh, so you're claiming my mother would get it? Or my grandmother, when she's had shingles? Or are you going to tout natural immunity as if that works with EVERY virus equally when I'm fairly certain it doesn't or we wouldn't need basic boosters, even for tetanus (wears off after about 10 years or so). Seems to me it's not as perfect as you want to present it.

Polio vaccine was fairly different, yet people can try bringing up the Cutter incident, yet I'm pretty sure we both know that'd be dishonest cherry picking to act like those deaths are representative of the majority of early deaths that could even be correlated to the polio vaccine.

Yet here you are doing something dangerously similar with mRNA under a pretense that because the non human animals died (not sure your study is as simple as they all died, only that there were issues) that the human deaths are 100% caused by the vaccines and not comorbid issues that a vaccine could cause just as likely as a bee sting and not solely the mRNA technology. Or am I just supposed to accept I'm likely to die now with this "revelation" you've presented that I'm just doomed because I've already "conformed" and you're going to "save" me? Delusions of grandeur don't even begin to describe this.

And, as I already stated in a different manner, never did I claim data was useless, only that it is not sufficient unto itself, because data doesn't speak for itself. It's like you can't grasp the idea that subjectivity is a natural aspect of how we process anything, including data. It doesn't mean every interpretation is equally valid, but it also doesn't mean one is absolutely true merely because it bears out, because we cannot apprehend the world in itself, only through sensory input and rational concepts applied to data (not the data in itself)