Why do black African immigrants do better than American-born blacks?

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,283
20,281
US
✟1,476,266.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Malcolm X (for the most part) had given up convincing the society at-large of anything ...

That is true. That's because Malcolm X was primarily a "chief," not a "shaman."

There are two important roles in a tribe.

One is the "shaman" (or "medicine man" or "priest"). The function of the shaman is to entreat the celestial powers-that-be for a favorable natural environment, such as for good weather, plentiful game, and fruitful fertility. The shaman might also occasionally lead the tribe in group activities to influence the celestial powers-that-be, such as rain dances or other tribal-level entreatments to the powers-that-be. The shaman's attention is focused outside the tribe.

The function of the chief is to direct the activities of the tribe, such as hunting parties, war parties, harvest activities, et cetera. The chief is also concerned with enforcing the laws of the tribe and managing tribal personal interactions that affect the tribe overall--judging offenses and such. The chief's attention is focused within the tribe, ensuring that tribe members are performing tasks that make the tribe safe and successful.

Most so-called nationally recognized black "leaders" are actually shamen entreating the government powers-that-be for a favorable environment. Martin Luther King was a shaman.

There have been very few nationally recognized black chiefs directing the activities of black people to make black people successful, however. Malcolm X was a chief, which is why he didn't spend much of his time trying to convince society-at-large of anything. Rather, most of his attention was directed at directing the activities of black people toward making black communities safe and successful.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

God is perfect - Nothing is an accident
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
15,537
5,871
46
CA
✟572,654.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That is true. That's because Malcolm X was primarily a "chief," not a "shaman."

There are two important roles in a tribe.

One is the "shaman" (or "medicine man" or "priest"). The function of the shaman is to entreat the celestial powers-that-be for a favorable natural environment, such as for good weather, plentiful game, and fruitful fertility. The shaman might also occasionally lead the tribe in group activities to influence the celestial powers-that-be, such as rain dances or other tribal-level entreatments to the powers-that-be. The shaman's attention is focused outside the tribe.

The function of the chief is to direct the activities of the tribe, such as hunting parties, war parties, harvest activities, et cetera. The chief is also concerned with enforcing the laws of the tribe and managing tribal personal interactions that affect the tribe overall--judging offenses and such. The chief's attention is focused within the tribe, ensuring that tribe members are performing tasks that make the tribe safe and successful.

Most so-called nationally recognized black "leaders" are actually shamen entreating the government powers-that-be for a favorable environment. Martin Luther King was a shaman.

There have been very few nationally recognized black chiefs directing the activities of black people to make black people successful, however. Malcolm X was a chief, which is why he didn't spend much of his time trying to convince society-at-large of anything. Rather, most of his attention was directed at directing the activities of black people toward making black communities safe and successful.

If we're going to return to Tribesmen vs. Village people's, we're going to return right back to the Jim Crow era.

...I promise that will happen. (IMO)
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,283
20,281
US
✟1,476,266.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If we're going to return to Tribesmen vs. Village people's, we're going to return right back to the Jim Crow era.

...I promise that will happen. (IMO)

I'm sorry you were unable to read my post with any understanding.
 
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟953,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If we're going to return to Tribesmen vs. Village people's, we're going to return right back to the Jim Crow era.

...I promise that will happen. (IMO)
He's just explaining leadership types which naturally occur in human societies.

These roles occur in all communities. They even occur within christianity ...
 
Upvote 0

Oompa Loompa

Against both police brutality and cop killing.
Jun 4, 2020
5,460
2,418
41
Louisiana
✟150,512.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Both BLM and CRT are efforts to educate the public ... in order to change society's attitudes toward African Americans.

Malcolm X (for the most part) had given up convincing the society at-large of anything ...
"Educate" the public of what exactly?
 
Upvote 0

Oompa Loompa

Against both police brutality and cop killing.
Jun 4, 2020
5,460
2,418
41
Louisiana
✟150,512.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Did you not read the Malcolm X quote I gave you?
What are your thoughts about the quote? By the way, I agree with Malcom X in the quote you presented. He is absolutely right. However, it doesn't change the fact that Malcom X pushed for Black separatism and separation is all that the democratic party and the left care about. Why? Because they thrive on division. There always has to be an oppressor and the oppressed. If there was no oppression, there would be no oppressed. If no oppressed, there would be nobody to pander to. So their strategy is to create as much division as possible for the sole purpose of making as many people believe they are oppressed so they can step up to be their saviors. All for power of course. After they get what they want, all those who were convinced of a false oppression are kicked to the curb until the next election cycle.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,283
20,281
US
✟1,476,266.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What are your thoughts about the quote? By the way, I agree with Malcom X in the quote you presented. He is absolutely right. However, it doesn't change the fact that Malcom X pushed for Black separatism and separation is all that the democratic party and the left care about. Why? Because they thrive on division. There always has to be an oppressor and the oppressed. If there was no oppression, there would be no oppressed. If no oppressed, there would be nobody to pander to. So their strategy is to create as much division as possible for the sole purpose of making as many people believe they are oppressed so they can step up to be their saviors. All for power of course. After they get what they want, all those who were convinced of a false oppression are kicked to the curb until the next election cycle.

The separatism that Malcolm X desired is better considered a form of nationalism, and would have been something like the separate communities that immigrants develop (the "Chinatowns" and such) where they are able to thrive as ethnic communities within their own cultures. That has nothing to do with what the Democratic party is talking about now. Nothing at all. There is no similarity.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,048
17,407
USA
✟1,750,981.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
That is true. That's because Malcolm X was primarily a "chief," not a "shaman."

There are two important roles in a tribe.

One is the "shaman" (or "medicine man" or "priest"). The function of the shaman is to entreat the celestial powers-that-be for a favorable natural environment, such as for good weather, plentiful game, and fruitful fertility. The shaman might also occasionally lead the tribe in group activities to influence the celestial powers-that-be, such as rain dances or other tribal-level entreatments to the powers-that-be. The shaman's attention is focused outside the tribe.

The function of the chief is to direct the activities of the tribe, such as hunting parties, war parties, harvest activities, et cetera. The chief is also concerned with enforcing the laws of the tribe and managing tribal personal interactions that affect the tribe overall--judging offenses and such. The chief's attention is focused within the tribe, ensuring that tribe members are performing tasks that make the tribe safe and successful.

Most so-called nationally recognized black "leaders" are actually shamen entreating the government powers-that-be for a favorable environment. Martin Luther King was a shaman.

There have been very few nationally recognized black chiefs directing the activities of black people to make black people successful, however. Malcolm X was a chief, which is why he didn't spend much of his time trying to convince society-at-large of anything. Rather, most of his attention was directed at directing the activities of black people toward making black communities safe and successful.

What in the world do Chiefs and Shamans have to do with Malcolm X or African Americans in America.
Do you think blacks are all divided into tribes that existed in Africa?

There are all types on leaders in the black community as there are in the white community and the Asian community.

Martin Luther King was not a shaman, he was a Christian leader.
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,048
17,407
USA
✟1,750,981.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Millions of sub-Saharan blacks seek to immigrate to America. They apparently haven’t gotten the memo that this is a wretched land of systemic anti-black racism.


Continued below.
Why do black African immigrants do better than American-born blacks?
Where in the article is there any proof that African immigrants do better than American born blacks?

How many African immigrants are there? And how many of them compared to American born blacks?

Not every African is black by the way.
 
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,602
56,234
Woods
✟4,673,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Where in the article is there any proof that African immigrants do better than American born blacks?

How many African immigrants are there? And how many of them compared to American born blacks?

Not every African is black by the way.
There are links within the article.
Statistical Portrait of the U.S. Black Immigrant Population

America still is the land of opportunities for black immigrants—but not their kids

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htius.pdf

African-American family structure - Wikipedia

The author never said everyone in Africa is black.
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,048
17,407
USA
✟1,750,981.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat

From the Pew site is this graph:
In 2013, One-third of Black Immigrants from Africa Have a College Degree, a Higher Share than Among the U.S. Population
ST_2015-04-09_black-immigrants-12.png



But that is % of the population of that group vs the % of the population of a possibly much higher group in numbers.

The black immigrants coming to the US are probably sponsored to come to college. They are going to be in the top percentages of all the population from where they came from.
It is a stat that can be used to support a bias against US blacks. Lots of US blacks have done bry well.

I also suspect there is more self-esteem amoung black immigrants - they did not come from a culture that went through Jim Crow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,283
20,281
US
✟1,476,266.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What in the world do Chiefs and Shamans have to do with Malcolm X or African Americans in America.
Do you think blacks are all divided into tribes that existed in Africa?

There are all types on leaders in the black community as there are in the white community and the Asian community.

Martin Luther King was not a shaman, he was a Christian leader.

I'm sorry you didn't understand the point I was making.

All people-groups can be regarded anthropologically by how they behave like "tribes."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,048
17,407
USA
✟1,750,981.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
That first comment is snark.

The use of tribe with leader and shaman appears more of a way to make black Americans less American. As if they are other, not real Americans.
So how do you define black Americans? Are they one "tribe"? Are they many tribes?

So America has a lot of white Christian leaders. Are they all shamans?
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,283
20,281
US
✟1,476,266.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That first comment is snark.

The use of tribe with leader and shaman appears more of a way to make black Americans less American. As if they are other, not real Americans.
So how do you define black Americans? Are they one "tribe"? Are they many tribes?

So America has a lot of white Christian leaders. Are they all shamans?

Most of so-called "leaders" in America are shamen. There aren't many chiefs.

But to get to an example of a chief among black Americans: Louis Farrakhan. Now, I don't like Louis Farrakhan even a little bit, I never have (and I'm still convinced he directed the assassination of Malcolm X), but he's an example of a "chief" in that he spends little time "entreating the gods" (that is, the US government) and all his time directing his own people in their own actions. You don't see him in a press conference speaking to white people, you always see him in black venues speaking to black people. His audience is always black people.

For instance, when Louis Farrakhan initiated the "Million Man March" to Washington, it was not about getting the US government to do anything for black people, it was to get black men to start being better men, husbands, and fathers. It was all about directing his own people in what they should be doing, not about getting "the powers that be" to provide a more benevolent environment. That's what a chief does.
 
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟953,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That first comment is snark.

The use of tribe with leader and shaman appears more of a way to make black Americans less American. As if they are other, not real Americans.
So how do you define black Americans? Are they one "tribe"? Are they many tribes?

So America has a lot of white Christian leaders. Are they all shamans?
Native Americans had shamans and chiefs. Europeans had shamans and chiefs, even if they named them differently.

The earlier comment was an attempt to describe leadership roles that occur in every culture.

It was just an attempt to say that some leaders function as an advocate for the people they represent within the overarching society, while other leaders lead their people to do what they, personally, need to do.

Something akin to this is Jesus functioning as prophet, priest, and king ... all leadership roles ...
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: RDKirk
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
6,924
5,003
69
Midwest
✟283,399.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The separatism that Malcolm X desired is better considered a form of nationalism, and would have been something like the separate communities that immigrants develop (the "Chinatowns" and such) where they are able to thrive as ethnic communities within their own cultures.
Would you say that even about the later part if of his life after his trip to Mecca where he had a bit of a conversion about the possibilities of racial collaboration and apologized to MLK for earlier comments?
 
Upvote 0