the standard of righteousness

DaDaBrothers said:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

So is everyone justified? They could be, Jesus did destroyed sin, but not everyone will be saved, so how is it that if the whole world is justifed, not everyone will be justified at the end?

That is when faith comes in, you must believe on Him, love Him, know Him, and abide in Him. And only after this will you be given your already accomplished justification.

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The sins of those Christ died for are purged away by His atoning death. Those whose sins He purged away will be given Faith.

Brightfame52 said:

False statement. When Christ took His seath at the right hand of God He had purged away the sins of them He died for Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That word purged means:

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ, which equates to Justification from their sins.

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The death of Christ PAID for the sins of the whole world.

But we all know that the vast majority of humanity will not be saved. So why do they not reap the benefits of the price that was paid?

BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXHIBIT faith. There are numerous places in NT Scripture that tell us that salvation comes to us through faith, because of faith, that without faith we cannot please God, that we are justified by our faith.

Without exhibiting faith, we cannot receive the benefit of the price that Jesus paid.

Part 1:


BibleHighlighter: " Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11)."



BibleHighlighter, wants me to answer all of these questions ?


What is the greater sin ?

Yes, remember and take a look at the difference between Israel and the Gentiles. Luke 12:47-48, does mention in parable how the ones who know not ( the Lords will) receive few stripes..



Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.




Acts 7:52, confirms that Israel were the betrayers of the Lord and murderers, whereas the Gentiles were gathered together against the Lord, as in Acts 4:25-27..


Acts 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.


Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:




Then Pilate speaking without knowing the faith ( Israel was given the law and the prophets) was answered directly by Christ, how Pilate has no power against Christ, unless given to him from Heaven. Pilate then immediately wanted to release Christ, but the people of Israel spoke more sin. as Acts 3:13 confirms, Pilate was determined to let Jesus go, but the Jews denied Christ in the presence of Pilate..



John 19:9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.



Pilate had also asked if Jesus was the Son of God, who gave the profession in front of Pilate ( when the Jews did not give profession but denied)

Then the commandment is to be kept without spot ( all sins cause spot and break Gods word and your soul) this is to know that Jesus is the King of kings and the Lord of Lord' ( Pilate and the Gentiles were in ignorance until this point)..



1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;






Speaking of the ignorance the Gentiles were in ( the Jews had always been warned by the prophets and finally the Son, whom they killed all) now the Apostle Paul ( the Apostle to the Gentiles) declares God to the wold of Gentiles..


Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.



Apostle Paul could declare God to the Gentiles, because Paul who also previously was in ignorance ( as all are unless God reveals Himself to them) obtained mercy as that was unbelief...


1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.




Repeating Luke 12:47, there are the servant who knows His Lords will, and there are those who know not the Lords will.

As told, Paul previously in ignorance, declared God to the Gentiles ( also previously in ignorance worship) because Acts 22:14, shows Paul is chosen to see God and to KNOW HIS WILL...



Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.






BibleHighlighter: "Accidental manslaughter and being able to flee to cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 19:1-13); Contrast this with intentional murder which results in capital punishment (See: Deuteronomy 19:21, Numbers 35:31)."



Deuteronomy 19, shows the purpose of the accidental killing, and the hateful killing, and how the avenger of blood is commanded by God to be the avenger of blood...



Deuteronomy 19:6 Lest the avenger of the blood pursue the slayer, while his heart is hot, and overtake him, because the way is long, and slay him; whereas he was not worthy of death, inasmuch as he hated him not in time past.

Deuteronomy 19:11 But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities:
12 Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die.



Then, that is why it is testified, Christ comes with salvation, and is clothed with vengeance, and the days of vengeance that Christ brought to all on earth, are all things written of Christ being fulfilled...


Isaiah 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.




That is understand by the believer in Christs righteousness now, that we do not avenge ourselves, as now it is understood vengeance belongs to the Lord ( Israel this world and all avengers do not understand this in the Holy Spirit) how you overcome this evil world with good ( they say sin is what you do t times, smaller sins and this is overcoming this world)..



Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.






BibleHighlighter: "Sodom and Gomorrah would not have been destroyed if it was not so perverse. Other cities that were pagan had obviously sinned, but they were not as grievous as the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah."



BibleHighlighter speaking by ignorance, insists Sodom was destroyed for being more evil than other sinning, pagan cities.

Only his opinion, does anyone see this ?

Here is the word, Sodom did pride, idleness, filled with bread, they did not give strength to the needy, they were haughty and did abominations, so God cut them off as He saw fit.

But Israel did more than Sodom( yet God never cut them off but gave multiple warnings to them until there was no remedy...



Ezekiel 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
51 Neither hath Samaria committed half of thy sins; but thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they, and hast justified thy sisters in all thine abominations which thou hast done.

2 Chronicles 36:16 But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy.





Comparing Sodom AGAIN, (BibleHighlighter gave no comparisons) Capernaum exalted up to Heaven repented not at the preaching and works of miracles of Jesus, but declares Sodom would have repented and remained to that day..




Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Part 2.


Here now is why BibleHighlighter is turning the word of God upside down. Because the cities of Sodom, were made an ensample by God, for all who after that, still live ungodly. Sodom did unlawful deeds ( showing to this world how God feels about all unlawful deeds)

Gods word continues, how there are the godly, delivered out of temptation ( Sodom delivered as an example to all who live ungodly) and all of the unjust ( who do not do only justice but do injustice) are reserved by God ( they are unaware as in the flood when all the world was guilty for any evil anyone did ) and shall all be punished together ( with everlasting destruction from the presense of the Lord, to all who know not God, that is all who do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ ( they believed the deceiver giving a way to disobey) and is why 1 John 3 confirms all, that the ones who sins, does not know God ( no such lie there, as doing some sins still means you know God).

The testimony also is against these filthy dreamers, they speak evil of the Lords Holy Apostles ( do you not see them doing it here right now?) as they walk after the flesh in their lust of uncleanness ( they call cleaned of all unrighteousness still doing minor /a little bit of filth?) but see also, they are witnessed to be selfwilled, they do not know the Lords will, are in ignorance and unbelief to do all that they allow themselves and deceive to allow others too..





2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.







BibleHighlighter: "Unintentional Sins could be atoned for by certain types of offerings, and yet high handed sins could not be atoned for in this way (See: Numbers 15:22-31)."




That is what Numbers 15 shows, that sinning by ignorance receives atonement and forgiveness, and remembering that all Paul did was ignorantly in unbelief, it is the atonement for this world, of Jesus Christ, read carefully (AGAIN) that sin caused death for all, from Adam until Christ, over all sins men did, even though it was different to Adams transgression, because Adam was in front of God and still disobeyed. Jesus told Thomas about this, the natural doubter we all heard of, that blessed are all they who did not see like Thomas, yet believed.

Then, one mans disobedience of Adam, reigned death onto all ( by their sin of disobedience)

Now one ans obedience reigns to life ( by without sin and righteousness gifted to all in obedience)..




Numbers 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.






BibleHighligther: "There are unforgivable sins like blasphemy of the Spirit (Matthew 12:32, and worshiping the beast (Revelation 13:8"



All on earth worship the beast, as the whole world is deceived ( through the deceitfulness of sin, from these deceivers as predicted, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness/sin, and instead of exhorting against that deceitfulness of sin ,they are CLEARLY SEEN, to preach sinning, and label it minor sins/ sin on occasion)...



Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.



No unclean person enters the Kingdom of Heaven, of course blasphemy is uncleanness, and them insisting they can be unclean ( as long as minor and as long as only on occasion and all else is their vain words and vain excuses as told by the Lord)..



Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.





BibleHighlighter: "Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Spirit and they were instantly killed, and yet (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11), Simon the sorcerer was not killed when he tried to offer money for the Spirit; For Simon was told by Peter that he could pray and hope that he may be forgiven for what he had done (Acts of the Apostles 8:9-24)."




Remember before how Sodom was not as bad as even Israel, and how God did to Sodom as ensample to all who after should live ungodly.

Then we understand the same ways always with the Lord, Ananias and Sapphira were made as ensamples, for all to fear that God did this to those who claimed to be believers, who had tempted the Spirit of the Lord, but Simon had thought the gift of God could be purchased ( so Simon had ignorance and misunderstanding, unlike the ones made example for fighting the Lord) in other words for BibleHighlighter, Simon could not be made an example to die, but the others could and that is why they were......




Acts 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

Acts 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.




This is also reminded for us, it is not of who wills, but of Gd that wills, and that is why we need to be made known the will of God, or we are doing our own will instead...


Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.






BibleHighlighter: "by which he later regretted such imprisonment - Acts of the Apostles 26:29"



Here all joins together of BibleHighlighters purpose revealed, proven and him with no defense at all, not a word.


We know they defile the flesh and speak evil of thew Lords dignities. They turn the grace of God into lasciviousness ( sometime/occasionally/ minor ways of non death sins?)


All they say must topple and fall down, and it does.




BibleHighlighter claims, that Acts 26:29, is the Holy Apostle Paul in (REGRET) of being in bonds..


Acts 26:29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.



BibleHighlighter gave some sort of discredit on all of this being the will of the Lord, as if the capturing of Paul was an accident, and as if it was a mistake, and it went against the warning of God ( as if God did not want all of this to occur) and that mans will happened instead of the Lords will ( past finding out for these types of men)

But in Acts 26:29, Paul only said he willed that the king Agrippa and all who heard Paul this day, were in the same faith as Paul ( not disobeying the Holy Ghost but always in all obedience to death) but that they should not have the bonds Paul had on him.)

Acts 28:20, confirms completely, that Paul was bound with that chain ( bonds) for the HOPE OF ISRAEL, and now we see ALL THAT BIBLEHIGHLIGHTER IS DENYING AND UNABLE TO CONFESS, as seen in Daniel 4:35 also, how it is God that does according to His will in Heaven and on earth and none can do anything against Him at all..



Acts 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

DaDaBrothers: "I think you are refering to "sin" to express the words "tempted", "enticed" by your own lust. In that case, I guess you can be a just man and still get tempted, enticed by your own lusts, what you cannot do however, is sin

You can get tempted, but you cannot sin.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."






If this is not a lesson for you DaDaBrothers, how all you can talk, can only be incorrect ( and the reason to maybe avoid that now/sometime until we have the Holy Spirit if God will give this to us) then speak on/discuss away with whoever you please ( in circles, as how does the blind lead the blind and avoid both falling into the ditch?) Matthew 15:14.


You say, a just man can get tempted, because of reading every man is tempted, by their own lust, and mention James of resisting the devil.




Look carefully ( or do not look at all) Firstly, the ones who ARE CHRISTS, HAVE CRUCIFIED the flesh in its lusts.

The old man is corrupt, that is why corruption must be put off, as the lusts are deceitful ( they deceive the men drawn away of their own lusts) but now we must be renewed in the Spirit of our mind, to be a new created in God's image in righteousness and true Holiness...



Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.




We were serving lusts, hating one another ( they hate who do not love their brother and love works no ill/cannot work ill to your brother as there is none occasion of stumbling in those who love their brother and see where they are going in all things by abiding in the light, but those in darkness can see nothing and that is how they talk and reason in circles)

Then Jesus appears, and saves man by the washing and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost shed on us..



Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;



Looking better at James 4, we see that the spirit ( in man of darkness) lusts, but Gods grace gives grace to the humble, ( the humble/meek are called to inherit the earth) and the spirit in man that lusts ( the devil) flees..


James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.



Further on that, we know now, there is a spirit of error ( in man that lists) and the Spirit of God ( in man that does not Lust and he that is joined with the Lord is ONE SPIRIT)

We were quickened, when we were dead in those sins and tresspassess ( lusts of man drawn away, sinners and double minded) and we had our conversation in times past in the lusts of the flesh, to fulfil the desires of the flesh.

That is the spirit that now works in those children of disobedience, as the same goes, he that is joined with the devil is one, and is their father..



1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Ephesians 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.



Pay attention, and see again, that the promises of God ( the promise of the Spirit ) are what man escapes the corruption, of the world through lust ( in man and the spirit of disobedience)

They walk after the flesh in lust, as seen in all on the forum speaking evil of the Lords Holy ones to justify their own lust ( at times/minor/occasionally as they excuse for themselves)

They do not lok or believe in, the Lords promises ( of the Holy Spirit) they instead promise liberty ( to sin) speaking words to allure man through the lust of the flesh, as they are THOSE SERVANTS OF CORRUPTION..


2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.




The last days, the scoffers are here, walking after lusts ( talking about lusts and allowing some form of it)

But the lust of the flesh is not of the Father( Fathers Spirit now in us) but it is of the world ( the spirit of disobedience of the devil in all children of wrath) and their lust has and is passed away, but the ones who do the will of the Father ( made knonn the Fathers will by their spirit now joined to the Lord in one Holy Spirit) abide forever..

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I noticed the words above of 2 Peter 1:4, and we now having been made partaker of the divine nature, if we believe Gods promises, and see Randy's promises, of corruption, and that this is what he follows for mans sin nature, saying we will always have this sin nature in this life, ( instead of knowing/acknowledging, we lay aside all filthiness to be the righteousness of God/ the divine nature).


Why do you talk DaDaBrothers, and not just be swift to HEAR and RECEIVE THE WORD WITH MEEKNESS WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOUL ( even remembering your own words previously of might, saving a soul from death.)...

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Doug Brents said:

The death of Christ PAID for the sins of the whole world.

But we all know that the vast majority of humanity will not be saved. So why do they not reap the benefits of the price that was paid?

BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXHIBIT faith. There are numerous places in NT Scripture that tell us that salvation comes to us through faith, because of faith, that without faith we cannot please God, that we are justified by our faith.

Without exhibiting faith, we cannot receive the benefit of the price that Jesus paid.

Click to expand...

The death of Christ purged away the sins of them He died for. Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That word purged means:

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
   

They have no sin charges against them, they are not guilty before God, not based upon their faith, but based upon the expiatory sacrifice of Christ. Now later sometime in their life, they will be given Faith to know Christ has purged their sins away.

Brightfame52 said:

The death of Christ purged away the sins of them He died for. Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That word purged means:

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

They have no sin charges against them, they are not guilty before God, not based upon their faith, but based upon the expiatory sacrifice of Christ. Now later sometime in their life, they will be given Faith to know Christ has purged their sins away.

Click to expand...

The relationship between the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man is an age-old question, and one that is a paradox from the human point of view. God convicts people of their need to be justified. He discloses to them the truth of the person of Christ. But “the convicting work of the Spirit in itself does not assure salvation.” Individuals must have faith (believe and obey) in order to receive justification.

I’m sorry, but taking the Scriptures that you have cited out of context does not prove your point. There are other Scriptures, that I have cited, that disprove your contention.

Faith is not the gift of God.
Salvation is the gift of God.
Salvation is only received after man displays faith that comes from hearing the Word of God.
That faith is then the conduit through which the Holy Spirit cuts our sin from us, unites us with Christ in His death, and resurrects us like He did Christ.

RandyPNW said:

I didn't know that, but can understand why. It runs contrary to sound biblical teaching.

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Again, while I am not talking about Sinless Perfectionism (i.e. Being entirely sinless) because it is not allowed to be discussed at length or promoted in this section of the forums, I do have to ask you several questions.

Question #1.
Do you believe Jesus was not telling us to be perfect in the area of loving our enemies in Matthew 5:48? (cf. Matthew 5:43-47).

Question #2.
Do you believe James is not telling us to be perfect in the area of our life in regards to our words in James 3:2?

Question #3.
Do you believe the apostle Paul was not telling us to be perfect in the area of our works in 2 Timothy 3:16-17?

I know. Some Christians interpret the word “perfect” as being “mature” but that does not really work because Jesus said “be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.” Are we going to be irrational and say the Father can be mature? Surely not. So it means what it says. But many believers still do not like what these verses say. So they either ignore them or they seek to change them to fit their belief.

You said:

Wesley seems to have discovered a "higher ground" in his Christianity when he discovered the Sanctified Life.

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I do not agree with Wesley’s explanatory notes on key verses. So I am not sure he fully understands verses like 1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:8, etc. (of which I think is really important to understand as a part of the Christian life). But I do agree with his notes on James 2:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1. In any event, I have yet to read all of the writings of John Wesley. Maybe someday I will. But the Bible is my focus for now, and not a filter of what men think the Bible says.

You said:

I think he actually only found what I found as a Lutheran, that walking in the Spirit is "higher ground" than just emulating the morality of Christ and going through Christian routines. I left the Lutheran church because it was so dead in formalistic religion. I preferred to actually walk with God spiritually.

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The Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16), and the Bible tells us to follow Jesus in many places (See: 1 Peter 2:21, John 10:27, 1 John 2:5-6, 1 Peter 1:14-16).

Jesus says: “And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.” (Matthew 10:38).

As for Lutheranism: I strongly disagree with it.

You said:

We can declare, with faith, the fundamentals of the faith, and recite our doctrines, but if we don't actually hear God within and begin to follow love with every step of the way, we haven't really found the fulfilled Christian life.

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The only fundamentals of the faith, or doctrines comes from God’s Word the Bible and not a denominational church. I believe a person an also believe they are being led by God, but if their thinking is not aligned with Scripture or the Bible, they are actually just following their own thoughts and not God. They may think God wants them to do this or that, but if they are acting contrary to God’s Word, then they are not in approval by God.

You said:

Wesley did not become sinless and perfect, but he did find a holy path that went beyond nominal Christian living.

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I take history recorded by men with a grain of salt. Maybe it is true, and maybe it is not true.

I don’t think we are God to truly say how a man’s walk with God is if we do not see their walk personally for ourselves. Even then… we cannot know them like God can.

Again, my concern is God’s Word and what it says instead.

You said:

I'm glad I found it too. Since we can't discuss any further, I suppose this will be the end of that?

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Acts of the Apostles 5:32 says, “And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”

Romans 8:13 says, “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

Doug Brents said:

The relationship between the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man is an age-old question, and one that is a paradox from the human point of view. God convicts people of their need to be justified. He discloses to them the truth of the person of Christ. But “the convicting work of the Spirit in itself does not assure salvation.” Individuals must have faith (believe and obey) in order to receive justification.

I’m sorry, but taking the Scriptures that you have cited out of context does not prove your point. There are other Scriptures, that I have cited, that disprove your contention.

Faith is not the gift of God.
Salvation is the gift of God.
Salvation is only received after man displays faith that comes from hearing the Word of God.
That faith is then the conduit through which the Holy Spirit cuts our sin from us, unites us with Christ in His death, and resurrects us like He did Christ.

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Friend, the sins of those Christ died for are gone, purged away. They are not guilty before God. Later they will be given Faith to believe this good news, for the Just shall live by Faith.

RandyPNW said:

Actually, brother, I am referring to sin, but not in the sense of rejecting Christ--only in the sense of what might be termed "termporary insanity." Every day we fall into this "temporary insanity" of sin. It actually is something we live with, but perhaps want to ignore or deny.

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Your experience is not the experience of other believers. It is definitely not something taught in God’s Word, either. I don’t believe it is normal for Christians to fall into grievous sin every day. How would they be any different than unbelievers if that is the case?

Ephesians 2:2 says, “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:”

You said:

Even as we walk in the Spirit, and testify to Christ, and exemplify his love, there are flaws in us that we are aware of--a moment of lust, a moment of impatience or anger, a moment of wanting our own way or covetousness. We are all beset with this constantly, but can always continue to "overcome" simply by choosing to love.

This kind of sin, that you think of as "temptation," and that I think of as actual "sin," is not, however, what rules us. It is with us, as you say, always tempting us. But more than that, there is limited concession to it. If there is a temptation to lust, there is in fact a degree of lust. If we are tempted to want something not God's way, we are actually indulging in the thought of it, and thus, sinning momentarily.

We are unclean people, but we can persevere and overcome, simply by choosing to continue in the love of Christ, which he has graciously given us. This is the Christian life, and it certainly must be the sanctified life, or it is a hopeless imitation of true Christianity.

Unfortunately, much of Christianity is purely nominal, and not walking in righteousness. So I truly understand your concern. I just want you to know I share at least part of your burden, to encourage the sanctified life.

But I must also be true to the truth, and let you know that sin is always in you, making you partly unclean. But Christianity is designed to help you continue in righteousness, and to be cleansed continually of the sin that is within our flesh.

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Let go of your own way, and choose the way of the Bible instead. This is all resolved if you were to read again 2 Corinthians 7:1, and believe it whole heartedly.

Brightfame52 said:

Friend, the sins of those Christ died for are gone, purged away. They are not guilty before God. Later they will be given Faith to believe this good news, for the Just shall live by Faith.

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Sorry, God’s grace is not a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).
God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Believers need to confess of sin to be forgiven of it and to be cleansed of unrighteousness according to 1 John 1:9. Believers need to walk in the Spirit so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

Brightfame52 said:

Friend, the sins of those Christ died for are gone, purged away. They are not guilty before God. Later they will be given Faith to believe this good news, for the Just shall live by Faith.

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Again, taking those passages out of context does not prove your case.

Why was Abraham justified? Because of HIS faith (not God’s faith, Abraham’s). Abraham’s faith was counted to him as righteousness. What was Abraham’s faith? His obedience to God because he believed God.

A companion scripture that goes with Heb 1:3 is Heb 10:10

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Those who Christ died for and the will of God, they by his death have been sanctified. This word sanctified is the greek word hagiazō and it means:

1. o cleanse externally
   
   
2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
   
   
3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul
   

If you notice it means to purify by expiation, to free from the guilt of sin. Thats just like the word katharismos for the word purge in Heb 1:3

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
   

Ladies and Gentleman, those sinners Christ died for have no guilt for sin charged to them because of Christ death. They are the blessed ones here Ps 32:2

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Doug Brents said:

Again, taking those passages out of context does not prove your case.

Why was Abraham justified? Because of HIS faith (not God’s faith, Abraham’s). Abraham’s faith was counted to him as righteousness. What was Abraham’s faith? His obedience to God because he believed God.

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Thats not taking anything out of context, its highlighting biblical truth found within the context. No sinner Christ died for has sin charged to them because Christs blood has purged them all away.

Christ has fulfilled Ps 79:9

Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.