Representing the Nature of God

Soyeong

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P1.) The Israelites who were living in obedience to the Mosaic Law were representing the nature of who God is.

P2.) We should seek to represent the nature of who God is as accurately as we can.

C.) Therefore, we should seek to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law as accurately as we can.

I don't see how P1 could reasonably be denied by taking the position that the Israelites had no idea how to represent the nature of who God is. If God's laws are not completely arbitrary, then God has some motivation for why He chose to give the laws that he gave that teaches us about His nature, and I do not see any reason to think that God would choose to give any laws that were contrary to His nature. There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, and Psalms 103:7, and in 2 Samuel 22:11-37, God's ways are described as being righteous, blameless, merciful, pure, humble, light, perfect, true, liberty, and gentleness, so the Israelites had an understanding of God's nature because He gave the Mosaic Law to teach how to represent His nature.

In regard to P2, in Numbers 6:24-27, it says that God will put His name on His people, which is selecting His people to represent His name. When we do good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, we are acting as a light by showing how to walk in God's ways and we are giving glory to God by representing His nature (Matthew 5:13-16). In 2 Corinthians 5:17-21, we new creations in Christ whom God has reconciled to Himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, not counting our sins against us, and we ambassadors for Christ, God making His appeal through us, and God has made a way for us to be reconciled to Him by making him to be sin who knew no sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God. In Ephesians 2:10, we have been made new creations in Christ to do good works, so part of being an Ambassador for Christ is representing the righteousness of God through our works. Christ is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his works by living in obedience to the Mosaic, so if we want to represent the nature of Christ as accurately as we can, then we should seek to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law as accurately as we can. Furthermore, refusing to submit to the Mosaic Law is denying the truth of what it teaches us about the nature of Christ and and is therefore bearing false witness against him by misrepresenting him.

If the premises are true, then the conclusion is also true and any instructions that God has given for how to represent His eternal nature are eternally valid regardless of which covenant we are under.
 

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P1.) The Israelites who were living in obedience to the Mosaic Law were representing the nature of who God is.

P2.) We should seek to represent the nature of who God is as accurately as we can.

C.) Therefore, we should seek to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law as accurately as we can.

I don't see how P1 could reasonably be denied by taking the position that the Israelites had no idea how to represent the nature of who God is. If God's laws are not completely arbitrary, then God has some motivation for why He chose to give the laws that he gave that teaches us about His nature, and I do not see any reason to think that God would choose to give any laws that were contrary to His nature. There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, and Psalms 103:7, and in 2 Samuel 22:11-37, God's ways are described as being righteous, blameless, merciful, pure, humble, light, perfect, true, liberty, and gentleness, so the Israelites had an understanding of God's nature because He gave the Mosaic Law to teach how to represent His nature.

In regard to P2, in Numbers 6:24-27, it says that God will put His name on His people, which is selecting His people to represent His name. When we do good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, we are acting as a light by showing how to walk in God's ways and we are giving glory to God by representing His nature (Matthew 5:13-16). In 2 Corinthians 5:17-21, we new creations in Christ whom God has reconciled to Himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, not counting our sins against us, and we ambassadors for Christ, God making His appeal through us, and God has made a way for us to be reconciled to Him by making him to be sin who knew no sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God. In Ephesians 2:10, we have been made new creations in Christ to do good works, so part of being an Ambassador for Christ is representing the righteousness of God through our works. Christ is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his works by living in obedience to the Mosaic, so if we want to represent the nature of Christ as accurately as we can, then we should seek to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law as accurately as we can. Furthermore, refusing to submit to the Mosaic Law is denying the truth of what it teaches us about the nature of Christ and and is therefore bearing false witness against him by misrepresenting him.

If the premises are true, then the conclusion is also true and any instructions that God has given for how to represent His eternal nature are eternally valid regardless of which covenant we are under.

Christ has fulfilled the law...however, the law still has a place. The law serves as a guide for a safe and just society, additionally, it also convicts us of our sin that leads to repentence and forgiveness. Martin Luther spoke of a third use of the law, but it escapes me...sorry.

If humanity could keep the law, there would be no need for a savior.

Paul also writes that no one will be saved by obedience to the law.

Why would you want burden someone with the law? Trying to keep the law leads only to despair and hopelessness.

We have been set free...why return to bondage.
 
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Bob S

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P1.) The Israelites who were living in obedience to the Mosaic Law were representing the nature of who God is.
The Israelites didn't live in obedience to the Law. They never entered God's Rest as per Hebrews. Heb 4. 13 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

P2.) We should seek to represent the nature of who God is as accurately as we can.
How can you equate the nature of God with the laws He gave Israel?

C.) Therefore, we should seek to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law as accurately as we can.
The Mosaic law was only given to one nation, Israel and the Mosaic law ended at Calvary when Jesus ratified the new and better covenant. Heb8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
 
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Soyeong

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The Israelites didn't live in obedience to the Law. They never entered God's Rest as per Hebrews. Heb 4. 13 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.


There are a number of instances where the Bible states that Israelites did live in obedience to God's law, such as Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6, though even if they hadn't, it would be nevertheless still true that anyone who lives in obedience to the Mosaic Law would be representing the nature of who God is, as Jesus did by living in obedience to it.

How can you equate the nature of God with the laws He gave Israel?

As I pointed out, the Bible describes God's ways as being aspects of His nature and it also describes God's law as being instructions for how to walk in His ways. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's laws, which is because it is God's instructions for how to represent His nature, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). For example, God's righteous laws teach us how to represent His righteousness, which is why our good works in obedience to them give glory to God. Again, Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), so the way that he lived represented the nature of God, and he lived in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law.

The Mosaic law was only given to one nation, Israel and the Mosaic law ended at Calvary when Jesus ratified the new and better covenant. Heb8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The way to represent God's nature is straightforwardly based on God's nature, not on any particular covenant, and God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to represent His nature are therefore also eternal (Psalms 119:160). God can create a covenant that includes instructions for how to represent His nature and that covenant can be come obsolete, but the way to represent God's eternal nature will always remain eternally valid. For example, it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9 long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, and it remains against God's nature after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any number of covenants being made or becoming obsolete that changes the way to act in accordance or against God's eternal nature.
 
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Soyeong

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Christ has fulfilled the law...however, the law still has a place. The law serves as a guide for a safe and just society, additionally, it also convicts us of our sin that leads to repentence and forgiveness. Martin Luther spoke of a third use of the law, but it escapes me...sorry.

If humanity could keep the law, there would be no need for a savior.

Christ fulfilled the law by spending his ministry teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, God said that His law was not too difficult to keep and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as something that no one could keep. Thinking that no one could keep it would mean that God essentially gave the law with the goal of cursing His children, which would be expressing an extremely negative view of God, when in reality His law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). In addition, 1 John 5:3 says that to love God is to keep His commandments, which are not burdensome, so to say that no one could keep the law is to deny that anyone has ever loved God and that God's commandments are not burdensome. Furthermore, we have examples where the Bible states that people did keep the law, such as in Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6, so it is false that if we could keep the law, then there would be no need for a savior, but rather it is because of our savior that we can keep the law.

Paul also writes that no one will be saved by obedience to the law.

The Mosaic Law can be obeyed for purposes other than trying to earn our justification, especially because it was never given as a means of doing that, so verses that speak against that should not be mistaken as speaking against our justification requiring our obedience for some other reason, such as faith. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matter of the law, so only those who have faith will obey it and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul could say that only doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13) while also using Abraham's example to deny that our justification can be earned as a wage (Romans 4:4-5). While Abraham believed God, so he was justified, he also believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience, but he did not earn his justification by his obedience as a wage. In James 2:21-23, Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac, his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was justified by his obedience to God insofar as it was an expression of his faith, but not insofar as it was earning a wage. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to God's law through faith is inherently part of what it means to receive the gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law.

Why would you want burden someone with the law? Trying to keep the law leads only to despair and hopelessness.

We have been set free...why return to bondage.

The reason that God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them into bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1) and God's law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45). In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of God's law that puts us in bondage, while it is the truth that sets us free. The Mosaic Covenant was a wedding between God and Israel, and wedding ring is by no means bondage, but rather that is freedom from bondage. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness, so the freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin so that we can be free to obey God's law, not the other way around.

The view that we have of the Mosaic Law matches the view that we have of the Lawgiver, such as with God being trustworthy, holy, righteous, and good, and the law also being those things (Psalms 19:7, Romans 7:12). The Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, which certainly matched his view of the Lawgiver, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22), while anything less than the view that we ought to delight in obeying it is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who...delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night. We can't believe in the truth of these words while not allowing them to shape our view of God's law. So viewing the Mosaic Law as being bondage and bringing despair and hopelessness is expressing an extremely negative view of the Lawgiver, and such negative view of the law should not be imposed onto anyone who considers the Psalms to be Scripture, such as the authors of the NT.
 
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Bob S

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There are a number of instances where the Bible states that Israelites did live in obedience to God's law, such as Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6, though even if they hadn't, it would be nevertheless still true that anyone who lives in obedience to the Mosaic Law would be representing the nature of who God is, as Jesus did by living in obedience to it.
Yet as Hebrews proclaims they didn't enter God's rest. They didn't live perfect lives just as you and I do not live perfect lives. If we could we certainly would not need a Savior. Every human that has ever lived carries the results of the original sin. Every one of us are sinners and the only way to be saved is through the Blood shed by the Lamb of God. Zechariah and Elizabeth were still sinners.

As I pointed out
What you point out and what is the truth is two different things.

the Bible describes God's ways as being aspects of His nature and it also describes God's law as being instructions for how to walk in His ways.
As I pointed out, the Law, the words of the Sinai covenant, were for the nation of Israel and only them. God did not give any other nation the laws of the Sinai covenant. The covenant ended when the new covenant started. Gal 3:19, 2Cor 3:6-11, Eph 2:15, Col 2:13-15

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's laws,
The Bible often?? uses the same terms to describe the nature of God??? "Often", where might I often find God's nature described. Yes, we can find the laws He gave to Israel, but to claim those laws are His nature is a far fetch.

which is because it is God's instructions for how to represent His nature, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). For example, God's righteous laws teach us how to represent His righteousness, which is why our good works in obedience to them give glory to God. Again, Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), so the way that he lived represented the nature of God, and he lived in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law.
All those things are just the tip of the iceberg. God's Character is also wrath, "Vengeance is mine".


The way to represent God's nature is straightforwardly based on God's nature, not on any particular covenant,
Sorry, that just doesn't make any sense and according to your previous point you based His nature on the Mosaic covenant.


and God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to represent His nature are therefore also eternal (Psalms 119:160).
Yes, God's nature is eternal. Sorry, the rest is pure bologna.

God can create a covenant that includes instructions for how to represent His nature and that covenant can be come obsolete, but the way to represent God's eternal nature will always remain eternally valid.
Trying to relate God's nature with the laws He gave Israel is nothing but foolishness. When a covenant becomes obsolete so do the words of said covenant.
 
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