Why does Christianity have denominations?

Pavel Mosko · Jul 28, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
In fact I this comes to the very heart of the matter. We have no need of division at all. We have the truth, we are set free by the truth and born again into the Kingdom of God. What more need is there to be divided by that truth when we are stronger in it? Who has bewitched us???

The problem is the scripture your quoting is not just about division, but in context from what I recall about the Galatians they were basically being Pauline believers but were starting to get into mandating various kinds of Jewish customs in addition to what Paul preached. That was the bewitching part, because Paul came out of that as a Pharisee and new all its limitations and problems. And that itself was the source that was dividing them.

You know the person that wrote those words himself had a division.

Acts 15:36-39
New Living Translation

Paul and Barnabas Separate
36 After some time Paul said to Barnabas, “Let’s go back and visit each city where we previously preached the word of the Lord, to see how the new believers are doing.” 37 Barnabas agreed and wanted to take along John Mark. 38 But Paul disagreed strongly, since John Mark had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in their work. 39 Their disagreement was so sharp that they separated. Barnabas took John Mark with him and sailed for Cyprus.

I think this verse and its aftermath shows that things are not always purely black and white all the time, as far as either / or. God can be on more than one side on an issue, and for different reasons etc.

Albion · Jul 28, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Only those that go against what scripture plainly tells us.

I meant to identify specific doctrines that you would give up for the sake of interdenominational unity.

SongOnTheWind · Jul 28, 2021

Albion said:
I meant to identify specific doctrines that you would give up for the sake of interdenominational unity.

Sorry, but I am not going to fan that flame here. I think I have been specific enough in distinguishing the authority of scripture against the doctrines and traditions of men. Let us all contemplate what that distinction means and why it matters pertaining to this discussion. Starting that argument will not accomplish anything, and will be to the detraction of the discussion, rather than yielding any mutual agreement on it.

SongOnTheWind · Jul 28, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
The problem is the scripture your quoting is not just about division, but in context from what I recall about the Galatians they were basically being Pauline believers but were starting to get into mandating various kinds of Jewish customs in addition to what Paul preached. That was the bewitching part, because Paul came out of that as a Pharisee and new all its limitations and problems. And that itself was the source that was dividing them.

You know the person that wrote those words himself had a division.

Acts 15:36-39
New Living Translation

Paul and Barnabas Separate
36 After some time Paul said to Barnabas, “Let’s go back and visit each city where we previously preached the word of the Lord, to see how the new believers are doing.” 37 Barnabas agreed and wanted to take along John Mark. 38 But Paul disagreed strongly, since John Mark had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in their work. 39 Their disagreement was so sharp that they separated. Barnabas took John Mark with him and sailed for Cyprus.

I think this verse and its aftermath shows that things are not always purely black and white all the time, as far as either / or. God can be on more than one side on an issue, and for different reasons etc.

This is why the man himself said: "Follow me as I follow Christ." Knowing that no one is perfect. None of us are, and yet each of us can be equally used of God for another.

I didn't try to make the scripture about division. I simply highlighted its addressing our being led astray away from the truth. It skewed their view of the crucifixion, and for us today, we are being robbed of our unity. That is the point I am trying to make.

It's not about being black and white or lack of grey areas, but about the truth and standing in it. That's all I'm after.

Albion · Jul 28, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Sorry, but I am not going to fan that flame here.

That was a pretty simple request made to you, and you'd have been speaking only of your own personal thinking. So how threatening it really would be is a question. However, without an answer, the Original Post is just hot air.

Sure, all the denominations should get along. They all believe alike when it comes to the key doctrines. East to say all that stuff, but if it's that simple, why doesn't it happen? When we turn to the ACTUAL reasons why it doesn't work, we're stumped.

Such discussions are often a story of asking a person who says he's in favor of interdenominational harmony to offer even the first little thing as a practical suggestion that might help move the churches towards that harmony. And then it goes nowhere.

Discussions on this topic are fun and sound promising so long as they remain completely abstract.

SongOnTheWind · Jul 28, 2021

Albion said:
That was a pretty simple request made to you, and you'd have been speaking only of your own personal thinking. So how threatening it really would be is a question. However, without an answer, the Original Post is just hot air.

Sure, all the denominations should get along. They all believe alike when it comes to the key doctrines. East to say all that stuff, but if it's that simple, why doesn't it happen? When we turn to the ACTUAL reasons why it doesn't work, we're stumped.

Such discussions are often a story of asking a person who says he's in favor of interdenominational harmony to offer even the first little thing as a practical suggestion that might help move the churches towards that harmony. And then it goes nowhere.

Discussions on this topic are fun and sound promising so long as they remain completely abstract.

I'm sorry I didn't satisfy your curiosity. I just didn't want to start an argument. If you think it's hot air then that's purely your opinion to have. You don't have to care about it. I just happen to. But I care more about people than my own need to prove a point.

Some discussions are fun, for sure. Some are very serious indeed. Very true.

Albion · Jul 28, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
I'm sorry I didn't satisfy your curiosity.

Baloney. Curiosity was not the point. I couldn't care less which doctrines you hold so dear that you wouldn't compromise them, and which you'd abandon for the sake of church unity or harmony.

I asked you to choose ANY doctrine that you would give up so that there could be accord with another denomination. You apparently won't consider any such thing....which illustrates the problem with talking big about church cooperation (which all sorts of people do).

It's that few people are willing to back away from their present doctrinal stances. They are willing to have the other churches compromise their own, of course!

With many people talking unity and few people willing to take the most obvious step in that direction, it's not hard to see why it hasn't happened.

SongOnTheWind · Jul 28, 2021

Albion said:
Baloney. Curiosity was not the point. I couldn't care less which doctrines you hold so dear that you wouldn't compromise them, and which you'd abandon for the sake of church unity or harmony.

I asked you to choose ANY doctrine that you would give up so that there could be accord with another denomination. You apparently won't consider any such thing....which illustrates the problem with talking big about church cooperation (which all sorts of people do).

It's that few people are willing to back away from their present doctrinal stances. They are willing to have the other churches compromise their own, of course!

With many people talking unity and few people willing to take the most obvious step in that direction, it's not hard to see why it hasn't happened.

Maybe that's the problem. Some just don't care. If you choose to misunderstand my reasons that's completely up to you. That's not why I started this thread. Check my OP and what I ended it with. If you want a fight, I am not going to give it to you, so you should probably go find it somewhere else.

Be blessed

Albion · Jul 28, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Maybe that's the problem. Some just don't care. If you choose to misunderstand my reasons that's completely up to you. That's not why I started this thread.

Yes, the point is that you started the thread and I thought for that reason that you'd take the first step in explaining what you'd do to promote the unity that you appeared to favor.

SongOnTheWind · Jul 28, 2021

Albion said:
Yes, the point is that you started the thread and I thought for that reason that you'd take the first step in explaining what you'd do to promote the unity that you appeared to favor.

You need me to explain the promotion of unity? Seriously?

SongOnTheWind · Jul 28, 2021

eleos1954 said:
The deception of satan is twisting the Word of God .... and that is being done through various churches (not on all things). It is one's individual responsibility to check anything taught (regardless from where) with His Word.

Acts 17:11

King James Bible
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Luke 12:51
English Standard Version
(Jesus speaking) Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.

We will remain divided until Jesus returns.

Surely He did not mean division within the church, but division between the church and the world. Be not confirmed to this world; friendship with the world is emnity with God, and so on. The Spirit and the Bride say come. We must be in agreement with the Holy Spirit of God, and if we are, how can we be in any serious disagreement with one another?

However, I have to agree with you. It seems as though we will remain divided until He comes again. Would that it were not so.

Albion · Jul 28, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
You need me to explain the promotion of unity? Seriously?

You started the thread. You started the original post by saying this--

SongOnTheWind said:
Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.

That sounds to me like a plea for unity and also asks why it doesn't seem to be a big concern with people.

So because I know that doctrinal differences are what's at the heart of the problem and that some "coming together" on that matter would seem to be essential if we all are to be "unified in our belief in the truth," as you worded it...

I asked you to explain how being unified in belief could be advanced, specifically by asking what doctrines you would give up in order to move the cause of unity with Christians of other churches along.

Obviously, I would say, if no one is willing to compromise at all, the idea of unity is not going to get anywhere.

BobRyan · Jul 28, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Surely He did not mean division within the church, but division between the church and the world. Be not confirmed to this world; friendship with the world is emnity with God, and so on. The Spirit and the Bride say come. We must be in agreement with the Holy Spirit of God, and if we are, how can we be in any serious disagreement with one another?

However, I have to agree with you. It seems as though we will remain divided until He comes again. Would that it were not so.

True - the Holy Spirit is not the "author of confusion".

When we look at the debate in Mark 7:6-13 we see that these are all believers in the one true Creator God of Genesis - and they all have the same scriptures. But Jesus points to the fact that people were following man-made-tradition handed down from generation to generation. That is still a big problem and source of derailing from pure doctrine.

St. Helens · Jul 28, 2021

ADMIN HAT ON

ADMIN HAT OFF

eleos1954 · Aug 1, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Surely He did not mean division within the church, but division between the church and the world. Be not confirmed to this world; friendship with the world is emnity with God, and so on. The Spirit and the Bride say come. We must be in agreement with the Holy Spirit of God, and if we are, how can we be in any serious disagreement with one another?

However, I have to agree with you. It seems as though we will remain divided until He comes again. Would that it were not so.

He divides the sheep from the goats.

There are wolves among the sheep .... the sheep are scattered.

We are informed there are false teachings ... so yes there is and will be serious disagreements among us.

They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves” (Matthew 7:15, NIV). Echoing the words of Jesus, the apostle Peter also warned that “there will be false teachers among you” (2 Peter 2:1, NIV)

Dick Barton · Aug 4, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?

It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.

John 17:20-21:
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Truth in love, thoughts in kindness, discussion in humility are mo st welcome. Let's reason together. Please let's not argue. I am really interested in what we all have to say.

Having done an extensive study of the church as church history is one of my favourite subjects, it seems that most protestant denominations come about because someone one wanted to do things "my way."

This particularly noticeable amongst Pentecostals. Where I live their are half a dozen Pentecostal churches. They all do the same thing in their meetings at the same time and they all have different names some rather fancy, but put them in the same room and they all are a variation on a theme.

Most of the time what determines their expression is what denomination they belong to as most of them have to obey central government to be part of that denomination.

Where I live we have 45 different churches that rarely talk to each other. They come together for special occasions but that is all and even then only about 10% of each congregation get together. I have tried to get them to work together on evangelism projects but have been rebuffed by the ministers.

Albion · Aug 4, 2021

Hello. In my opinion, what you are describing applies to all the branches of Christianity and even to the better-known cults if we look closely enough.

SongOnTheWind · Aug 4, 2021

God help us all.

Sparta · Sep 3, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Aren't we supposed to be unified in our belief in the truth? Is it a divisive ploy from the enemy of our souls? Did God desire it to be this way?
It's just been bugging me, as it doesn't seem to be a great testimony to the world at all.
John 17:20-21:
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Truth in love, thoughts in kindness, discussion in humility are most welcome. Let's reason together. Please let's not argue. I am really interested in what we all have to say.

Man created denominations, not God.
There are no denominations in heaven.

ViaCrucis · Sep 4, 2021

The answer to the question is complicated.
The solution to the problem is much more so.

To understand the current state of things in Christianity requires a lot of reading about the history of Christianity. But be prepared, it's pretty messy and sometimes really ugly.

Yes, we should all be united together in a common faith. But who gets to decide what exact form that common faith looks like?

If we answer "the Bible" to that question, that only pushes the question one step further: Whose interpretation of the Bible? Mine or yours?

-CryptoLutheran

Why does Christianity have denominations?

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