Britain's Pilot Scheme For A Chinese-Style Social Credit System

JustSomeBloke · Jul 23, 2021

New pilot to help people exercise more and eat better

The pilot will explore the best ways to incentivise adults to make healthier choices

The successful supplier will partner with a range of organisations who can provide incentives which may include vouchers, merchandise, discounts, and gift cards to reward people for making healthy choices.

It sounds exactly like a trial for a Chinese-style social credit system.The state will spy on your grocery shopping, and reward you with treats if you buy healthy food. This is why governments all over the world want to totally replace cash with an official digital currency. Once they have a vaccine passport system in place, that can be combined with the digital currency. From then on, just about anything can be tacked on to that dystopian, big-brother system to provide additional state control over citizens. And obviously that includes what people eat and drink. If you're a good little citizen, you may have treats. If you're naughty, the state will block your purchases using a centralised digital currency server to authorise or decline every transaction, and block your booking/entry to social events.

I've been trying to warn people about the dangers of vaccine passports, especially when combined with a digital currency. But by the time most people wake up, it will be too late. And approximately half of the population are such numb skulls that they probably think state intervention and nannying on absolutely everything is a good idea.

Gregory Thompson · Jul 23, 2021

I think a microchip was created for that purpose recently.

though it was supposed to reward crytocurrency for exercise.

Ophiolite · Jul 23, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
It sounds exactly like a trial for a Chinese-style social credit system.The state will spy on your grocery shopping, and reward you with treats if you buy healthy food.

Absolutely. The last thing we want is the government doing anything that could contribute to our well-being, life span and quality of life. We must demand the right to eat like slobs, avoid exercise and make the other choices that lead to an early death. We are in danger of losing this right and being forced into an extended healthy life in what will look indistinguishable from a communist dictatorship!

JustSomeBloke · Jul 23, 2021

Ophiolite said:
Absolutely. The last thing we want is the government doing anything that could contribute to our well-being, life span and quality of life. We must demand the right to eat like slobs, avoid exercise and make the other choices that lead to an early death. We are in danger of losing this right and being forced into an extended healthy life in what will look indistinguishable from a communist dictatorship!

It's called freedom. Not that you'd know what freedom is, or understand it.

And thanks for proving me correct within minutes of starting the thread.

JustSomeBloke said:
... approximately half of the population are such numb skulls that they probably think state intervention and nannying on absolutely everything is a good idea

obscura · Jul 23, 2021

Ophiolite said:
Absolutely. The last thing we want is the government doing anything that could contribute to our well-being, life span and quality of life. We must demand the right to eat like slobs, avoid exercise and make the other choices that lead to an early death. We are in danger of losing this right and being forced into an extended healthy life in what will look indistinguishable from a communist dictatorship!

People can't really be this naive.

You think it's up to the government to enforce what people should and shouldn't do with their bodies? That if you want a donut over a salad, you should have travel restrictions enforced upon you, or be ostracized from society?

The government doesn't care about you or your well-being.

ReesePiece23 · Jul 23, 2021

I'm not here to agree or disagree with anybody. I just think that the notion of a Boris Johnson-led government telling me how to eat, monitor energy intake - AND exercise, is quite frankly, ridiculous. Everyone in that cabinet has a body like a bag of milk.

It's hard to imagine sometimes, but there ARE decent people out there who get into parliament with the very best of intentions and strive to help people. Unfortunately, we very rarely hear from them. And it's a shame.

Not every politician is a sociopathic charlatan. But I'll certainly give it to you - most are.

ReesePiece23 · Jul 23, 2021

It's kind of an awkward thread for me this, because I consider both JustSomeBloke and Ophiolite very much mates of mine...

Couldn't possibly take sides. Lol

Sketcher · Jul 23, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
New pilot to help people exercise more and eat better

The pilot will explore the best ways to incentivise adults to make healthier choices

The successful supplier will partner with a range of organisations who can provide incentives which may include vouchers, merchandise, discounts, and gift cards to reward people for making healthy choices.

It sounds exactly like a trial for a Chinese-style social credit system.The state will spy on your grocery shopping, and reward you with treats if you buy healthy food. This is why governments all over the world want to totally replace cash with an official digital currency. Once they have a vaccine passport system in place, that can be combined with the digital currency. From then on, just about anything can be tacked on to that dystopian, big-brother system to provide additional state control over citizens. And obviously that includes what people eat and drink. If you're a good little citizen, you may have treats. If you're naughty, the state will block your purchases using a centralised digital currency server to authorise or decline every transaction, and block your booking/entry to social events.

I've been trying to warn people about the dangers of vaccine passports, especially when combined with a digital currency. But by the time most people wake up, it will be too late. And approximately half of the population are such numb skulls that they probably think state intervention and nannying on absolutely everything is a good idea.

When the government pays for everyone's health care, and when obesity is linked to many health problems, it's in the government's interest, as much as it can get away with it, to incentivize people to avoid obesity. Did no one in the UK see this coming?

Tanj · Jul 23, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
It sounds exactly like a trial for a Chinese-style social credit system.The state will spy on your grocery shopping, and reward you with treats if you buy healthy food. This is why governments all over the world want to totally replace cash with an official digital currency. Once they have a vaccine passport system in place, that can be combined with the digital currency. From then on, just about anything can be tacked on to that dystopian, big-brother system to provide additional state control over citizens. And obviously that includes what people eat and drink. If you're a good little citizen, you may have treats. If you're naughty, the state will block your purchases using a centralised digital currency server to authorise or decline every transaction, and block your booking/entry to social events.

That reads like a descent into madness with each unrelated sentence unveiling yet another layer of dark fantasy. Providing vouchers is nothing like the social credit system, it has nothing to do with digital currency, it is no way related to vaccine passport, any kind of control, or even the most remotest whiff of "blocking purchases".

It's like an updated version of this:
You can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool that is insufficiently sophisticated to understand the constructs employed by HTML. HTML is not a regular language and hence cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Regex queries are not equipped to break down HTML into its meaningful parts. so many times but it is not getting to me. Even enhanced irregular regular expressions as used by Perl are not up to the task of parsing HTML. You will never make me crack. HTML is a language of sufficient complexity that it cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Even Jon Skeet cannot parse HTML using regular expressions. Every time you attempt to parse HTML with regular expressions, the unholy child weeps the blood of virgins, and Russian hackers pwn your webapp. Parsing HTML with regex summons tainted souls into the realm of the living. HTML and regex go together like love, marriage, and ritual infanticide. The <center> cannot hold it is too late. The force of regex and HTML together in the same conceptual space will destroy your mind like so much watery putty. If you parse HTML with regex you are giving in to Them and their blasphemous ways which doom us all to inhuman toil for the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic Multilingual Plane, he comes. HTML-plus-regexp will liquify the nerves of the sentient whilst you observe, your psyche withering in the onslaught of horror. Rege̿̔̉x-based HTML parsers are the cancer that is killing StackOverflow it is too late it is too late we cannot be saved the transgression of a chi͡ld ensures regex will consume all living tissue (except for HTML which it cannot, as previously prophesied) dear lord help us how can anyone survive this scourge using regex to parse HTML has doomed humanity to an eternity of dread torture and security holes using regex as a tool to process HTML establishes a breach between this world and the dread realm of c͒ͪo͛ͫrrupt entities (like SGML entities, but more corrupt) a mere glimpse of the world of regex parsers for HTML will instantly transport a programmer's consciousness into a world of ceaseless screaming, he comes~~, the pestilent sl~~ithy regex-infection will devour your HTML parser, application and existence for all time like Visual Basic only worse he comes he comes do not fight he com̡e̶s, ̕h̵is un̨ho͞ly radiańcé destro҉ying all enli̍̈́̂̈́ghtenment, HTML tags lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liquid pain, the song of re̸gular expre~~ssion parsing~~ will extinguish the voices of mortal man from the sphere I can see it can you see ̲͚̖͔̙î̩́t̲͎̩̱͔́̋̀ it is beautiful the final snuffing of the lies of Man ALL IS LOŚ͖̩͇̗̪̏̈́T ALL IS LOST the pon̷y he comes he c̶̮om~~es he co~~mes the ichor permeates all MY FACE MY FACE ᵒh god no NO NOO̼OO NΘ stop the an*̶͑̾̾̅ͫ͏̙̤g͇̫͛͆̾ͫ̑͆l͖͉̗̩̳̟̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e not rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘̱ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ

JustSomeBloke · Jul 23, 2021

ReesePiece23 said:
I'm not here to agree or disagree with anybody. I just think that the notion of a Boris Johnson-led government telling me how to eat, monitor energy intake - AND exercise, is quite frankly, ridiculous. Everyone in that cabinet has a body like a bag of milk.

It's hard to imagine sometimes, but there ARE decent people out there who get into parliament with the very best of intentions and strive to help people. Unfortunately, we very rarely hear from them. And it's a shame.

Not every politician is a sociopathic charlatan. But I'll certainly give it to you - most are.

I think it's reasonable to assume that the rules will only apply to the little people. We've already had a taster of that, with exemptions for the G7 politburo, UEFA, Hancock's get HANDSy, snog FACE, in his office SPACE, and Boris's recent attempt to avoid self isolating. The rich, elites, and politicians, will just carry on, using some kind of special exemption.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than other animals. Which of course explains how the utopia known as the Soviet Union ended up with Zil lanes.

Baaaaaaaa!

Sketcher said:
When the government pays for everyone's health care, and when obesity is linked to many health problems, it's in the government's interest, as much as it can get away with it, to incentivize people to avoid obesity. Did no one in the UK see this coming?

For some things, such as smoking, I can kind of agree. However, although the government deters smoking by continually raising taxes on tobacco, I still don't think smoking should be totally banned. The issue with food and drink is less clear. For example, why should people who eat and drink responsibly, and exercise regularly, be hit with taxes on 'unhealthy' food, or be subject to state surveillance?

Freedom means freedom, including things that might be harmful or risky. Why not ban high risk sports too? How about banning rock climbing, paragliding, mountain biking, sky diving. What about horse riding? Equestrian sports can be dangerous, especially when riding a lively horse and doing jumps. And I'm sure plenty of people have drowned while wild swimming. The government could arguably ban all of those, and tell people who want to exercise to do it in a carefully controlled gym or swimming pool environment, under the watchful eye of supervisors.

As you may have gathered by now, among other things, I'm a libertarian. I believe in free choice, and personal responsibility for those choices.

Tanj said:
That reads like a descent into madness with each unrelated sentence unveiling yet another layer of dark fantasy. Providing vouchers is nothing like the social credit system, it has nothing to do with digital currency, it is no way related to vaccine passport, any kind of control, or even the most remotest whiff of "blocking purchases".

It's like an updated version of this:
You can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool that is insufficiently sophisticated to understand the constructs employed by HTML. HTML is not a regular language and hence cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Regex queries are not equipped to break down HTML into its meaningful parts. so many times but it is not getting to me. Even enhanced irregular regular expressions as used by Perl are not up to the task of parsing HTML. You will never make me crack. HTML is a language of sufficient complexity that it cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Even Jon Skeet cannot parse HTML using regular expressions. Every time you attempt to parse HTML with regular expressions, the unholy child weeps the blood of virgins, and Russian hackers pwn your webapp. Parsing HTML with regex summons tainted souls into the realm of the living. HTML and regex go together like love, marriage, and ritual infanticide. The <center> cannot hold it is too late. The force of regex and HTML together in the same conceptual space will destroy your mind like so much watery putty. If you parse HTML with regex you are giving in to Them and their blasphemous ways which doom us all to inhuman toil for the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic Multilingual Plane, he comes. HTML-plus-regexp will liquify the nerves of the sentient whilst you observe, your psyche withering in the onslaught of horror. Rege̿̔̉x-based HTML parsers are the cancer that is killing StackOverflow it is too late it is too late we cannot be saved the transgression of a chi͡ld ensures regex will consume all living tissue (except for HTML which it cannot, as previously prophesied) dear lord help us how can anyone survive this scourge using regex to parse HTML has doomed humanity to an eternity of dread torture and security holes using regex as a tool to process HTML establishes a breach between this world and the dread realm of c͒ͪo͛ͫrrupt entities (like SGML entities, but more corrupt) a mere glimpse of the world of regex parsers for HTML will instantly transport a programmer's consciousness into a world of ceaseless screaming, he comes~~, the pestilent sl~~ithy regex-infection will devour your HTML parser, application and existence for all time like Visual Basic only worse he comes he comes do not fight he com̡e̶s, ̕h̵is un̨ho͞ly radiańcé destro҉ying all enli̍̈́̂̈́ghtenment, HTML tags lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liquid pain, the song of re̸gular expre~~ssion parsing~~ will extinguish the voices of mortal man from the sphere I can see it can you see ̲͚̖͔̙î̩́t̲͎̩̱͔́̋̀ it is beautiful the final snuffing of the lies of Man ALL IS LOŚ͖̩͇̗̪̏̈́T ALL IS LOST the pon̷y he comes he c̶̮om~~es he co~~mes the ichor permeates all MY FACE MY FACE ᵒh god no NO NOO̼OO NΘ stop the an*̶͑̾̾̅ͫ͏̙̤g͇̫͛͆̾ͫ̑͆l͖͉̗̩̳̟̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e not rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘̱ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ

Providing vouchers is a way of testing how people respond, before they replace the carrots (vouchers) with sticks (removing privileges until people comply). Are you totally unfamiliar with the concept of testing things on a small scale before rolling out universally?

And is there a point to you posting a wall of unintelligible nonsense?

ReesePiece23 · Jul 23, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I think it's reasonable to assume that the rules will only apply to the little people. We've already had a taster of that, with exemptions for the G7 politburo, UEFA, Hancock's get HANDSy, snog FACE, in his office SPACE, and Boris's recent attempt to avoid self isolating. The rich, elites, and politicians, will just carry on, using some kind of special exemption.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than other animals. Which of course explains how the utopia known as the Soviet Union ended up with Zil lanes.

Baaaaaaaa!

The thing is, you're NOT wrong. Anyone who runs through the last eighteen months with a fine toothcomb has to agree here. I feel like the only politician who hasn't really put a foot wrong is Rishi Sunak - which MEANS he's either excellent and needs to level up, or he's due a calamity.

Anyone in ANY doubt needs to watch a couple of Hancock's Downing Street briefings from the winter and then read up on his recent story, and how everyone in the cabinet defended the indefensible when the truth came out.

The lack of trust is thoroughly justified. Besides the vaccine rollout this has been a horrible year to be a Conservative member. It's one disaster after another; I'm bitterly disappointed.

Sketcher · Jul 23, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
For some things, such as smoking, I can kind of agree. However, although the government deters smoking by continually raising taxes on tobacco, I still don't think smoking should be totally banned. The issue with food and drink is less clear. For example, why should people who eat and drink responsibly, and exercise regularly, be hit with taxes on 'unhealthy' food, or be subject to state surveillance?

Freedom means freedom, including things that might be harmful or risky. Why not ban high risk sports too? How about banning rock climbing, paragliding, mountain biking, sky diving. What about horse riding? Equestrian sports can be dangerous, especially when riding a lively horse and doing jumps. And I'm sure plenty of people have drowned while wild swimming. The government could arguably ban all of those, and tell people who want to exercise to do it in a carefully controlled gym or swimming pool environment, under the watchful eye of supervisors.

As you may have gathered by now, among other things, I'm a libertarian. I believe in free choice, and personal responsibility for those choices.

It's a big part of why those who resist universal health care in the US do so. Once the government is paying the bill, it has its pretext for doing all of these things. And in the digital age, we're seeing the UK going closer to the logical end.

Now, in terms of high risk sports, I don't see that going away so long as the state has an incentive to defend itself. The smart thing to do would be to encourage sports that build fitness and courage, because when people are involved in those, it's a step closer to being better soldiers should the government need them - the military likely would rather draw from a pool of athletes and risk takers than a pool of the opposite. Since governments want ever-more power, they will want able protectors and enforcers of that power at least as much as they would be interested in efficiency and control.

ReesePiece23 · Jul 23, 2021

Tanj said:
That reads like a descent into madness with each unrelated sentence unveiling yet another layer of dark fantasy. Providing vouchers is nothing like the social credit system, it has nothing to do with digital currency, it is no way related to vaccine passport, any kind of control, or even the most remotest whiff of "blocking purchases".

It's been a rough year for British politics. We're all feeling a bit drained and/or slightly mad.

I don't know about anyone else, but it's time for my trip killer now. My trip sitter has left for greener pastures.

JustSomeBloke · Jul 23, 2021

ReesePiece23 said:
The thing is, you're NOT wrong. Anyone who runs through the last eighteen months with a fine toothcomb has to agree here. I feel like the only politician who hasn't really put a foot wrong is Rishi Sunak - which MEANS he's either excellent and needs to level up, or he's due a calamity.

Anyone in ANY doubt needs to watch a couple of Hancock's Downing Street briefings from the winter and then read up on his recent story, and how everyone in the cabinet defended the indefensible when the truth came out.

The lack of trust is thoroughly justified. Besides the vaccine rollout this has been a horrible year to be a Conservative member. It's one disaster after another; I'm bitterly disappointed.

I used to like Rishi. Now I regard him, and the rest of the cabinet, as part of the problem. In one way or another, most of them are facilitators or enablers for Boris's tyranny, or complicit in allowing it to happen. Either Rishi agrees with all the billions being thrown around like confetti, or he doesn't have the backbone, or is too career minded, to stand up against it or resign.

Sajid Javid was the replacement for the awful Hancock, but I heard that on his very first day in office, he used the term Build Back Better. It looks like some kind of signalling to the puppet masters behind the scenes, that despite being new in the job, he's fully onboard with their agenda. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

I concluded a long time ago that Western democracy is, with few exceptions, a sham. Voting makes no real difference. You get the same stuff no matter who is in power. How on earth can anyone explain that we have a 'conservative' prime minister, who behaves more like a radical green party activist.

I've heard it said that the puppet masters who bought all our politicians prefer Western democracies to despotic regimes, because Western democracies do at least have the veneer of legitimacy. And most voters are not sufficiently aware to realise what is really going on, they just dutifully turn up, put an X in a box, and think they have democracy.

Look at Trump. He's an example of a non-mainstream candidate, who was unapproved by the puppet masters, and wasn't supposed to win. I suspect that there was a fix in to boost Hillary's votes, but they totally underestimated Trump's support, and didn't have enough votes to stop him. Consider the four years of wailing and gnashing of teeth from the MSM, nearly all of which is ultimately owned (via stocks and shares) by a handful of investment firms. Every time Trump so much as sneezed or blew his nose, it was reported as some kind of national outrage. Next time around, they made extra certain that Trump couldn't win. Trouble is, their election fraud left a lot of telltale footprints.

Tanj · Jul 24, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I think it's reasonable to assume that the rules will only apply to the little people.

What rules? The rules that you get 10% off at Bob's gym if you buy an apple?

Aslo...no, that's not in the least reasonable.

We've already had a taster of that, with exemptions for the G7 politburo, UEFA, Hancock's get HANDSy, snog FACE, in his office SPACE, and Boris's recent attempt to avoid self isolating. The rich, elites, and politicians, will just carry on, using some kind of special exemption.

I don't understand this word salad.

As you may have gathered by now, among other things, I'm a libertarian. I believe in free choice, and personal responsibility for those choices.

You haven't shown the slightest evidence that you believe in any kind of personal responsibility.

Providing vouchers is a way of testing how people respond, before they replace the carrots (vouchers) with sticks (removing privileges until people comply).

No they aren't. There's been vouchers of various sorts around for decades, and never once has this thing you describe happen. Not once.

Are you totally unfamiliar with the concept of testing things on a small scale before rolling out universally?

I'm a big fan of it, do it all the time in my day to day job. But here's the thing, what I test on a small scale is what I then roll out. I don't roll out some completely different thing. Having said that, could you point to an example of this from your government in, say, the last 50 years?

Jimmy D · Jul 24, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
New pilot to help people exercise more and eat better

The pilot will explore the best ways to incentivise adults to make healthier choices

The successful supplier will partner with a range of organisations who can provide incentives which may include vouchers, merchandise, discounts, and gift cards to reward people for making healthy choices.

It sounds exactly like a trial for a Chinese-style social credit system.The state will spy on your grocery shopping, and reward you with treats if you buy healthy food. This is why governments all over the world want to totally replace cash with an official digital currency. Once they have a vaccine passport system in place, that can be combined with the digital currency. From then on, just about anything can be tacked on to that dystopian, big-brother system to provide additional state control over citizens. And obviously that includes what people eat and drink. If you're a good little citizen, you may have treats. If you're naughty, the state will block your purchases using a centralised digital currency server to authorise or decline every transaction, and block your booking/entry to social events.

I've been trying to warn people about the dangers of vaccine passports, especially when combined with a digital currency. But by the time most people wake up, it will be too late. And approximately half of the population are such numb skulls that they probably think state intervention and nannying on absolutely everything is a good idea.

The description of the scheme in your link sounds nothing like your characterisation of it, which frankly reads like some sort of paranoid fantasy.

And calling half the population “numb skulls” because of something you think they “probably” believe in? What a conceited thing to say. (I had to moderate my words here because my true thoughts would likely get me banned).

ReesePiece23 · Jul 24, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
I used to like Rishi. Now I regard him, and the rest of the cabinet, as part of the problem. In one way or another, most of them are facilitators or enablers for Boris's tyranny, or complicit in allowing it to happen. Either Rishi agrees with all the billions being thrown around like confetti, or he doesn't have the backbone, or is too career minded, to stand up against it or resign.

Sajid Javid was the replacement for the awful Hancock, but I heard that on his very first day in office, he used the term Build Back Better. It looks like some kind of signalling to the puppet masters behind the scenes, that despite being new in the job, he's fully onboard with their agenda. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

I concluded a long time ago that Western democracy is, with few exceptions, a sham. Voting makes no real difference. You get the same stuff no matter who is in power. How on earth can anyone explain that we have a 'conservative' prime minister, who behaves more like a radical green party activist.

I've heard it said that the puppet masters who bought all our politicians prefer Western democracies to despotic regimes, because Western democracies do at least have the veneer of legitimacy. And most voters are not sufficiently aware to realise what is really going on, they just dutifully turn up, put an X in a box, and think they have democracy.

Look at Trump. He's an example of a non-mainstream candidate, who was unapproved by the puppet masters, and wasn't supposed to win. I suspect that there was a fix in to boost Hillary's votes, but they totally underestimated Trump's support, and didn't have enough votes to stop him. Consider the four years of wailing and gnashing of teeth from the MSM, nearly all of which is ultimately owned (via stocks and shares) by a handful of investment firms. Every time Trump so much as sneezed or blew his nose, it was reported as some kind of national outrage. Next time around, they made extra certain that Trump couldn't win. Trouble is, their election fraud left a lot of telltale footprints.

Here's where you'll probably fillet me, BUT I believe that Thatcher was the last great leader. She was far from popular, but she made decisions, stuck by those decisions and did what was necessary to move forwards. (Often on her own, without anyone's help.)

She was about as likeable as COVID itself, but she WAS a leader. Unlike this useless mob we have now who refuse to own up to even the most inert mistakes. I honestly don't know where they keep finding them, but everyday there seems to be a new minister or secretary emerging from out of the woodwork, ready to wag their fingers at us. (Hello, who are you? Playground secretary? Slush Puppy Minister?)

I never actually disliked Trump. I've always had a saying "Donald will be Donald" - and all he ever did was reaffirm that during his time in office. America got EXACTLY what they ordered. Why order steak and chips when what you really wanted was caviar? And then act surprised when the plate comes to the table with steak on it?

The Westminster Bubble is a very real thing - very few of them have actually lived in the real world since university, and wouldn't know a part code from an invoice reference. In many ways we could do with our own working class hero to take up the seat; chances are a 46 year old scaffold erector from Deptford is going to have a better grip on reality and money management than ANY politician.

I'd settle for John Bercow though.

ReesePiece23 · Jul 24, 2021

For the purposes of counterbalancing, some facets of the British public aren't innocent either. Stubbornness is a great trait but ONLY if you're right.

We've all been privileged to witness the greatest vaccine rollout in history - I make no apologies for saying that because it has been a legitimate thing of beauty. I think it was someone on this forum who calmed my initial hesitancy back in December last year. (As it prompted me to do my own studying - so thank you to whoever you were.)

As a former dairy herdsperson, I'm quite used to the "awkward animals" who straggle at the back of the herd, and then protest when you finally drag them in. It's mildly amusing to me now that we're in the final 10% of the unvaccinated, that we're seeing vaccine hesitancy and bovine-like awkwardness.

We're in many ways NO different to animals in this regard. I noticed a trend with my herd, that the nervy cows were either early or late into the milking parlour, whereas the middle order were comprised of the most dominant animals. (The 50's to 30's couldn't take up the vaccine fast enough.) I'm in NO way trying to cause offence or belittle anyone, I just find my observation interesting.

But back to the topic - no, this government ARE taking liberties and actually, I can't blame those facets of the public. They're not innocent, but their scepticism is thoroughly justified. The cabinet has been worse than useless throughout this pandemic, and all they're doing is digging themselves a deeper hole.

Ophiolite · Jul 24, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
It's called freedom. Not that you'd know what freedom is, or understand it.

You don't know me. You don't know my history. The thing about freedom is that it is wasted if one uses it to indulge in fatuous and ill-informed conspiracy theories and obsessive promotion of childish agendas.

durangodawood · Jul 24, 2021

JustSomeBloke said:
.....It looks like some kind of signalling to the puppet masters behind the scenes....

Right. The Puppet Masters communicate with their underlings via cryptic public statements.

I'm reminded of this guys booth he'd set up in the plaza at my college with a whole presentation about how Stephen King really killed John Lennon under orders from Ronald Reagan. All the communications btwn the guilty parties were right there in quotes available in major media. He showed us the articles. I guess its true.

Britain's Pilot Scheme For A Chinese-Style Social Credit System

Unacceptable Fringe Minority

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

Unacceptable Fringe Minority

Active Member

The Peanut Buttery Member.

The Peanut Buttery Member.

Born Imperishable

Redefined comfortable middle class

Unacceptable Fringe Minority

The Peanut Buttery Member.

Born Imperishable

The Peanut Buttery Member.

Unacceptable Fringe Minority

Redefined comfortable middle class

Well-Known Member

The Peanut Buttery Member.

The Peanut Buttery Member.

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

Dis Member

Similar threads