Vaccine hesitancy, and how to reach hesitant groups...

Crwth · Jun 21, 2021

Bradskii said:
The professionals who built the bridge. The one who performed your last medical procedure. The guy who flew the plane you were in.

Are you saying you didn't trust any of them?

Professionals built this bridge:

This doctor was a professional (had to be to get their license):

And professionals built this airplane:

Meh... everyone makes mistakes.

But some of those mistakes are assuming "professionals" don't.

Bradskii · Jun 21, 2021

Crwth said:
Professionals built this bridge:
View attachment 301037

This doctor was a professional (had to be to get their license):
View attachment 301038

And professionals built this airplane:
View attachment 301039

Meh... everyone makes mistakes.

But some of those mistakes are assuming "professionals" don't.

Then I guess that you've never had a medical procedure or flown in a plane or driven over a bridge. Especially with all those examples of people messing up.

But the real question is - why did you waste your time digging up three pictures that not only wasted your time in finding them but mine in having to respond to them. It's a waste of good bandwidth. Put some cute puppies up next time.

ThatRobGuy · Jun 21, 2021

Bobber said:
Things I wonder about. Do people that are for the vaccines appreciate that many not willing to take one they may be just absolutely terrified or traumatized to do so and maybe the stress of taking one might just be more than they can bear? Not founded on good science? Maybe, maybe not but that's not the issue. The reality may be they feel they just can't. Does that make them bad, evil people ones who are to be hated and despised?

I think that most people could appreciate that, but the problem is that for many of the folks who claim that's their reasoning behind opposition, it's not consistent.

For instance,

If it's a case of just not knowing information about it, then simply providing information would do the trick, but more often than not, you'll end up getting responses along the lines of "that information doesn't count, because they're in on the conspiracy" and then they'll start specifically seeking out anti-vaccine sources (who they already know agree with their current position), and try to qualify that as "doing research about the dangers". IE: they'll be dismissive of numerous peer reviewed studies and clinical trial results as "not being good enough", but then they'll turn around and swear by something they read on the Mercola website or something a Chiropractor told them.

If it's a case where they're very skittish about new and unfamiliar therapies, then I would expect the same level hesitancy from them with regards to things like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, two things I'd all but guarantee they had never heard of before they started seeing those names popping up among anti-vaccine and alternative medicine circles. (as most people aren't necessarily familiar with anti-malaria drugs and anti-parasitic drugs).

But that's not what we saw... why is it that a one paragraph blurb (or 5 minute youtube video) about those two drugs is enough to ease their minds about them? But much more in-depth analysis about the mRNA vaccines isn't enough to ease their minds about that?

If the side effects are a major concern for them...it's well documented what the common (and serious) side effects of those drugs are.
https://www.rxlist.com/stromectol-side-effects-drug-center.htm

https://www.rxlist.com/plaquenil-side-effects-drug-center.htm

I don't doubt that there are some folks who may be afraid of needles, or may have a consistent hesitancy outlook that doesn't match the aforementioned double standards, but in more cases than not, it reads more like a case where a person started with the conclusion first that "covid vaccines are bad", and then are simply going out and looking for anything that supports that.

The fact that heart arrhythmias are a common side effect for those two drugs (and are more common among people who take them, than blood clots are for those who have taken covid vaccines), if side effect fears really were the impetus, then I wouldn't expect to see them rally around those two drugs as an alternative to the vaccines.

Crwth · Jun 21, 2021

Bradskii said:
Then I guess that you've never had a medical procedure or flown in a plane or driven over a bridge. Especially with all those examples of people messing up.

Didn't say that either. But neither do I automatically or implicitly trust all of them - which I think quite reasonable, don't you?

Bradskii said:
But the real question is - why did you waste your time digging up three pictures that not only wasted your time in finding them but mine in having to respond to them. It's a waste of good bandwidth. Put some cute puppies up next time.

Ahhh - to the heart of the matter then.

Ask and ye shall receive.

BigDaddy4 · Jun 21, 2021

I find a lot of irony in people I know who won't get vaccinated because "there's not enough data", or they're not "FDA approved", or whatever other reasons they have. These people will unquestionably take homeopathic or herbal supplements for health ailments rather than "big pharma" medicine. The irony is these supplements are NOT approved by the FDA, do not have hundreds of millions of test subjects to collect effectiveness data on, and - worst of all - are made by companies who expect to make a profit from their products.

Bobber · Jun 21, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
I think that most people could appreciate that, but the problem is that for many of the folks who claim that's their reasoning behind opposition, it's not consistent.

For instance,

If it's a case of just not knowing information about it, then simply providing information would do the trick, but more often than not, you'll end up getting responses along the lines of "that information doesn't count, because they're in on the conspiracy"

Perhaps true but such doesn't mean they're not terrified and afraid. So are they bad, selfish, mean people because they cant seem to get over it?

IE: they'll be dismissive of numerous peer reviewed studies and clinical trial results as "not being good enough",

And one can provide all the info they want that it's technically safer to be flying in planes as compared to driving in cars, doesn't matter though. The fear of flying could be a fear that absolutely paralyzes them with an unbearable stress. Are they bad people because they can't seem to get over it?

If the side effects are a major concern for them...it's well documented what the common (and serious) side effects of those drugs are.
https://www.rxlist.com/stromectol-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Yes perhaps...but the point you're making is like it's safer to fly in planes then to drive in cars. You know that even some people might agree with you.....but.....they just can't get on a plane. Or people afraid of getting hit by lightning. They know the chance might be one in a million...and yet....they're scared. Do you feel its justified to show less respect to a human being because they have a fear, terror they just can't seem to overcome? Should they be thought of as people that are not good or cast off from their family in anger. (Which I've been seeing this happen)

Bobber · Jun 21, 2021

BigDaddy4 said:
I find a lot of irony in people I know who won't get vaccinated because "there's not enough data", or they're not "FDA approved", or whatever other reasons they have. These people will unquestionably take homeopathic or herbal supplements for health ailments rather than "big pharma" medicine. The irony is these supplements are NOT approved by the FDA, do not have hundreds of millions of test subjects to collect effectiveness data on, and - worst of all - are made by companies who expect to make a profit from their products.

Maybe they think herbal supplement things are not powerful drugs but more of a natural thing that goes into the body.

sandman · Jun 21, 2021

FireDragon76 said:
The rejection of hydroxychloroquine wasn't because people hated Trump, but because it's an ineffective and unsafe drug. HCQ has a string of serious side effects.

A friend of mine who is a Doctor showed me a report last year regarding how the narrative that was developed was designed to show the dangers of Hydroxychloroquine…this → site is not the report, but it pretty much displays how the study was controlled to prove their narrative…......You can decide
I know you say it wasn't a hatred for Trump ...but when He publicly touted the use thereof... that is when stuff hit the fan.

~Here is something else to throw into the mix~

**On January 13, Agnes Buzyn, still France’s Health Minister, classifies chloroquine as a “poisonous substance,” from now on only available by prescription. An astonishing move, considering that it has been sold (OTC) off the shelf in France for half a century.

**The World Health Organization (WHO) had stated on the 14th of January there was no evidence of human to human transmission.

**The now famous or infamous Imperial College University published its first report on the 17th of January 2020 where they say “self-sustaining human-to-human transmission should not be ruled out.”

expos4ever · Jun 21, 2021

sandman said:
I have zero confidence in government, media, and those political puppets who speak for science…..and in turn are responsible for the development of this virus.

But the virus does not care what you or I believe.

expos4ever · Jun 21, 2021

Taisho said:
I am perfectly within my right as a sovereign human to seem and be "crazy" by layperson standards.

But do you have a right to put the rest of us at risk by refusing a safe, effective vaccine against a virus that is so contagious, you can catch by just looking at someone.

expos4ever · Jun 21, 2021

Bobber said:
They believe and think it's more safe to risk getting covid especially when they believe they have a 95-99 % chance of survival anyway...if they get it.

But that is, frankly, wildly incorrect thinking.

Unless you are a hermit, I cannot imagine how any rational analysis of the risks of the vaccine vs the risk of getting covid would not motivate one to trample little old ladies into the ground just to get to the front of the vaccine line.

expos4ever · Jun 21, 2021

Crwth said:
But, what are the actual RISKs involved here? We've been over all the stats numerous times. In the US, for example, the number of people that have died from Covid is less than 0.2% of the entire population. Some 600k out of 330m (give or take). 1 in 550 people. And the number of people who have contracted the disease is about 6x that, about 35m. Call it 10%. So the risk of dying IF you catch the virus is less than 2%.

Reverse those stats now. Nearly 90% of the American population hasn't even contracted the virus. And roughly 99.8% have not died from it.

Paranoid? Seriously, given those stats, who is the more likely to be paranoid here?

Several problems with this. First, and one encounters this all the time with the anti-vaxxers, this is not all about you.

Even if your risk of dying is low, if everyone thought like you and eschewed the vaccine, the disease would spike wildly, hospitals would be overrun, and patients with other illnesses would be put on hold. Many would die needlessly for lack of access to care.

Not good, not good.

Second your analysis fails to account for what will happen going forward. I am not sure where you get the figure that 90% have not contracted the virus. I believe the figure is much lower. But let's say it's 90%.

I trust you realize that, without vaccination, it would only be a matter of time before you get covid. And it will be a much shorter time, the more people who think as you do.

Crwth · Jun 21, 2021

expos4ever said:
Several problems with this. First, and one encounters this all the time with the anti-vaxxers, this is not all about you.

Where do people keep coming up with this stuff - stuff that I've never said but they nevertheless assume I did? :scratch:

expos4ever said:
Even if your risk of dying is low, if everyone thought like you and eschewed the vaccine, the disease would spike wildly, hospitals would be overrun, and patients with other illnesses would be put on hold. Many would die needlessly for lack of access to care.

Not good, not good.

Pfft. And I was the one accused of being paranoid. :doh:

(but I do like the word "eschewed"

)

expos4ever said:
Second your analysis fails to account for what will happen going forward. I am not sure where you get the figure that 90% have not contracted the virus. I believe the figure is much lower. But let's say it's 90%.

First, let's take care of that little detail. I'll see if I can explain it... again.
LINK (For those who doubt the numbers)

Now, the population of the United States is (another LINK):

Ok - next. You divide the number of Coronavirus Cases into the United States Population:

34,418,592 / 332,906,223 = 0.094, or, 9.4%
Now, not to complicate things, I was using round numbers all the way around so I just rounded up to 10% for the sake of illustration (plus it looks like more for those who'd like it to be so), so let's just stick with that - 10%.

Ok, so here's the crux move:
If 10% DID contract the disease... then how many did NOT contract the disease?

We'll let the readers do the math.

expos4ever said:
I trust you realize that, without vaccination, it would only be a matter of time before you get covid. And it will be a much shorter time, the more people who think as you do.

You trust absolutely correctly.

And it's fairly certain that if I drive my car 2 hours a day 5 days a week forever, it'd be only a matter of time before I'd get into a car wreck and die. And of course, if I drive it 8 hours a day 7 days a week, the odds increase I'd die even sooner. I get it.

I'm sorry...what was your point again? :scratch:

sandman · Jun 21, 2021

expos4ever said:
But the virus does not care what you or I believe.

True ....But God does

expos4ever · Jun 22, 2021

Crwth said:
Where do people keep coming up with this stuff - stuff that I've never said but they nevertheless assume I did?

It was very reasonable for a reader to infer that you were looking at this matter from a "how does this affect me" perspective. My point is that even any individual's risk from the virus is low, there are still huge problems - not least the overwhelming of the healthcare system - that would arise if substantial numbers of people adopted your view. Your analysis was entirely silent on this very critical matter.

Crwth said:
Pfft. And I was the one accused of being paranoid.
(but I do like the word "eschewed" )

It is difficult for me, and I suspect others, to believe you are unaware that, around the the world, health care systems have, at times of surges, been overwhelmed by Covid case counts - people in India have been dying in the streets since they cannot find a hospital bed!! Even in the most advanced nations, the health care infrastructure has been taxed to the breaking point with surgeries delayed and lives likely lost as a result. Now in these countries, the authorities have wisely instituted lockdowns when this happens. But make no mistake, unless you are willing to live under lockdown, widespread vaccine refusal will overload the health care system.[/QUOTE]

sfs · Jun 22, 2021

Crwth said:
And it's fairly certain that if I drive my car 2 hours a day 5 days a week forever, it'd be only a matter of time before I'd get into a car wreck and die.

With the slight difference that you'd have to drive 2 hours a day, 5 days a week for about 2000 years to have a 50% chance of dying in a car accident, while in the absence of a vaccine you'd likely be infected with SARS-CoV-2 within a couple of years.

trunks2k · Jun 22, 2021

sfs said:
With the slight difference that you'd have to drive 2 hours a day, 5 days a week for about 2000 years to have a 50% chance of dying in a car accident, while in the absence of a vaccine you'd likely be infected with SARS-CoV-2 within a couple of years.

And not to mention that driving a car results in some tangible benefit that outweigh the risks involved. Whereas the benefit to not getting the vaccine is....?

Strathos · Jun 22, 2021

trunks2k said:
And not to mention that driving a car results in some tangible benefit that outweigh the risks involved. Whereas the benefit to not getting the vaccine is....?

Virtue signaling to other conspiracy-minded folks.

Nithavela · Jun 23, 2021

Strathos said:
Virtue signaling to other conspiracy-minded folks.

You also get to show how incredibly big your trust in your diety of choice is.

"I don't need this, I have god" must be the ultimate form of virtue signalling.

Vaccine hesitancy, and how to reach hesitant groups...

He must increase but I must decrease

Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?

Part of the IT crowd

He must increase but I must decrease

It's a new season...

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

He must increase but I must decrease

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Contributor

No one important

our world is happy and mundane

Similar threads