If Adam Never Existed Where Did Sin Come From?

CatsRule2020 said:

I think the person in the video may be on to something.

Click to expand...

But Adam did exist, so the question is moot.

Free will.
Satan rebelled before Adam.

Hello @CatsRule2020, if our progenitors are not the proximate cause of the fallen condition that has beset every single one of us w/o exception (well, there was the One, but He didn't have a human father), then the 'cause' rests with our Creator*, not with our first parents. And if that's true, that would make God (instead of Adam and Eve) the Author of sin and moral evil, which would also mean that He holds us eternally accountable for something that He (literally) made us to do.

*(Just FYI, the Bible tells us that our first parents were created "upright", in God's perfect image, and that He does not tempt us, much less cause us to sin. He, in fact, makes sure that we are not tempted beyond that which we can bear, and provides us with ways out of temptation so that we can choose not to sin .. Genesis 1:26-27; Ecclesiastes 7:29; 1 Corinthians 10:13; James 1:13-15).

The speaker in your video is Professor Enns. One of the many things that he said in the video is that an inclination to sin (which he believes that we all have) and Original Sin (which he does not believe is true) are distinct from one another, but that is exactly what Original Sin is, a race-wide inclination/desire to sin that we are all born with (IOW, it is part of our basic make up or nature).

Also (just FYI), he is perhaps most famous (infamous?) for a book that he wrote (Inspiration and Incarnation, was the title, I believe). The positions he took in that book were so controversial that it cost him his tenured position at Westminster Seminary.

God bless you!

--David

Something for you to consider Adam was created from dust if you research what everything is made from in outer space and earth it mostly originated from a form of space dust, I believe that dust could be the ancient of old satan one of God's first creations or something that already existed.

CatsRule2020 said:

The reason this researcher posted this is because scientists have found that human DNA cannot be traced back to one human. Now that does create a problem for the literal Bliblical text person.

Click to expand...

There is a worldly say that ignorance is not an excuse. This researcher has to make up theories counter the bible. I have theories that are scriptural too so who do you believe? Theories are not facts but unproven evidence. The researchers whole case depends on Adam not existing and yet his case assumes Adam was a real person. The bible even teaches that generational spirits can be pass down through the generations of man. The researchers arguments do not hold water.

The people this researcher fools are those that do not know the Word of God or just do not understand the Word of God. The bible tells us to search out the truth ourselves and yet so many people take others opinion as fact. When people do this it is considered ignorance. Do not fall for others opinion without searching to determine the truth. Learn to discern truth from lies.

God bless

CatsRule2020 said:

I think the person in the video may be on to something.

Click to expand...

He mentions the Old Testament and only mentions Ps 51. Psalm 14 though seems to describe some sort of universality of sin.


The apparent universality of sin as described by Paul and Psalmists (not to mention our own observations) needs an explanation. In the event that you didn't believe in a literal Adam, the story of Adam seems to describe something inherent to everyone - everyone sins just as Adam sinned. In either case where Adam was a historical person or where he wasn't, the story of Adam is describing something about human nature. Even if you didn't want to ascribe original sin to Adam in the way Augustine did, it's quite interesting that the author of Gen 2 is describing the universality and problem of sin in a way where it is personified in Adam. The important point, then, is that in the text Adam personifies humanity and a universal problem for humanity - namely, sin and separation from God.

I suppose one could argue that Adam in the text is really the personification of Israel and a problem for Israel. However, Paul's language extends this problem and describes it as a problem for everyone, not just Israel.

Maybe that's what Peter Enns is saying. If it is what he's saying though, then Adam is representational of humanity (or possibly that Adam-via-Israel represents humanity) and he doesn't really get away from the problem of original sin. His solution amounts to "I don't know where it came from."

I found his answer inadequate (or incomplete) to the issue of original sin and the historicity of Adam to be an irrelevant issue to the implications of the text.

Isaiah 14. And really the entire book consoldering we now can see most his prophecy culminated.

we see a glimpse of Satan before Adam here. Read it and pray on it

My understanding is that angels are in someway accountable beyond our understanding because they know God

we are becoming but we are not yet anything but a vapor. The desire to be what we are not is ultimately the character of Satan. And when we resemble any form of pride we know for sure we are not acting in the spirit. Pride is sin. It is the chief character of Satan. And it is where God chose to make us weakest in his creation. So with that said. God being just , has displayed in this physical realm just how right his eternal judgment on the angels is by magnifying us who seek him and long to obey him in the flesh. What Satan thought for sure he would use as an accusation against gods judgement.

That mankind itself would despise God for his character as Satan has already in the spiritual realm in effect worshiping the creation itself and not the creator.

when you hear Jesus on this. He is clear Some hate him. I don’t. I can’t imagine who does. And I can’t imagine what that mind for a day is like. But they exist. It’s spiritual. Before and after Adam. It will always be spiritual where the core of life is at


These are solely my thoughts and not doctrine

Eve.

As a theistic evolutionist, I think this discussion really just boils down to the problem of evil. Whether Adam was or was not literally an individual human doesn't really change the question of if God was the ultimate author of creation, the good, the bad and the ugly. Job cried out to the Lord for answers to these same questions. In the end some things we will never have an answer for until we meet Him in heaven.