Cars in Heaven...

ViaCrucis said:

We also need to remember that "heaven" isn't our hope and promise, it's only the waiting room, the lobby, the foretaste of what is to come: The renewal and healing of all creation, the resurrection of the body, and that glorious and everlasting life in that future Age where God has made all things new.

The dirt underneath our feet, and all the galaxies and quintillions of stars above our heads--all purposed in Jesus Christ to eternal glory.

We should learn to treasure one another here, for such are the treasures that last in the coming Ages of Ages. To live in the now of our faith, in the hopeful anticipation of what awaits us. Because today there is a neighbor that needs a hug, a smile, a friendly face, a kind word, a bite to eat, a helping hand. And that is what is going to last into eternity.

St. Paul tells us, "Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:58)

In light of the resurrection, in light of the renewal of all things, our work in Christ here is not in vain, it matters. Our lives, our works, how we treat others--that matters, and shall be made all the more glorious in that future Day of God.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

SongOnTheWind said:

Not to argue, but Heaven is God's throne. How can it be a mere waiting room for us? I believe there are wonders there we could never get a glimpse of on this side of eternity. And Jesus does say that that is where our treasures, and our hearts should be. I am so greatly, and groaningly, looking forward to the new earth, but I am definitely enraptured to know that one day I shall see heaven. I can only imagine for now, but what a joy it will be!

Click to expand...

Nick01 said:

Since it's one of my heart's deepest desires to have race cars, planes, spaceships... do you guys think we will have them?

Click to expand...

Petros2015 said:

I think when He said
"I will give you the desires of your heart"
What He meant was
I will give your Heart
New desires

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

I would encourage you to study the matter more thoroughly. One resource I can personally attest to is N.T. Wright's Surprised By Hope. An excellent treatment of the subject from a thoroughly biblical, and theologically orthodox position.

The language of heaven in the Bible isn't that we go up into heaven (take note that no where does the Bible ever use the language of us going to heaven), but that heaven comes down.

We can call our being present with the Lord "going to heaven" if we like, but it's important that we don't engage in wrong thinking--that heaven is some place "up there" where God literally is enthroned, and Jesus has His own throne next to the Father's throne, and that the ghosts of the saints are floating around.

"Heaven" is the pit stop, resurrection is the destination.

-CryptoLutehran

Click to expand...

The city comes down from heaven, the city itself is not heaven, or at least that's the way it's written here. Note that is the Son that reigns on earth, with the Father's kingdom coming and will being done as it is in heaven, through Christ's perfect reign, just like the model prayer. I love that. Such complete and total fulfilment, it's wonderful!

But like I said, my intention wasn't to argue or start a debate, lol. It's our joy, our treasure and our goal, and I wouldn't want to spoil the discussion by getting too caught up in all the conflicting ideas we may all have around it.

Either way, at least we can agree that Christ will reign. May we be part of that reign at His side, as His bride. It's gonna be incredible!!

Be blessed

SongOnTheWind said:

Thanks for the encouragement

I don't think the travel or the direction there of is really the point though, is it? After all, God is outside of time and space, and is certainly outside of the third dimension (how many dimensions are there, exactly?) I think it would be very difficult for anyone one of us on this side of heaven to conceptualise, let alone imagine, what or where heaven is, considering that it is written:

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

No doubt, Jesus will establish His reign on earth, but that doesn't mean heaven ceases to exist, right?

Revelation 21:1-2
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The city comes down from heaven, the city itself is not heaven, or at least that's the way it's written here. Note that is the Son that reigns on earth, with the Father's kingdom coming and will being done as it is in heaven, through Christ's perfect reign, just like the model prayer. I love that. Such complete and total fulfilment, it's wonderful!

But like I said, my intention wasn't to argue or start a debate, lol. It's our joy, our treasure and our goal, and I wouldn't want to spoil the discussion by getting too caught up in all the conflicting ideas we may all have around it.

Either way, at least we can agree that Christ will reign. May we be part of that reign at His side, as His bride. It's gonna be incredible!!

Be blessed

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

I don't wish to argue either--I simply think it's important that we, as Christians, address the severe problems in our modern theology.

The way that we, in the west, have talked about salvation, talked about the hope of eternal life, and talked about the meaning, mission, and purpose of the Church has, over the last several centuries, become incredibly superficial.

We have failed to preach that this world is good, and God is going to do right by His creation by affirming and vindicating it through resurrection; but rather we have instead preached an escape from the material world. Which is why the false doctrine of the rapture is so popular in certain Christian circles today. It's why at funerals we talk about death as a transition from sort of life to another--ignoring the fact that death is not our friend, but the mortal enemy of all creation, literally. The Church's mission, its job, isn't to win souls for heaven, but to bear Christ and His Gospel to the nations, and to continue and carry on Christ's own mission in the world of picking up and mending the broken pieces of this world.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this is an incredibly important subject of theology. So I think it's something that needs to be discussed.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

If we are hearing what Christ has told us, then the desires of our heart will be transformed, shaped, and changed.

If our deepest desire is for cheap things such as money, cars, power, etc then we have set our minds on earthly treasures that are destroyed by moth and rust.

If you want treasures in heaven, then store up treasures in heaven--feed the hungry, give to the needy, speak up for the oppressed, use your mind, heart, and soul to love God and your neighbor by actually loving other people.

"He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" - Micah 6:8

Instead of praying for cars in heaven, pray that the desires of your heart are changed so that there is more heaven in your actions here on earth.

Our Lord taught us to pray,

"Our Father in heaven, Holy is Your name, Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven, give to us our super-substantial bread, forgive us our sins even as we forgive those who have sinned against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom, the glory, and the power, forever and ever."

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

Nick01 said:

Psalm 37:4
“Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart."

This is one of my favorite verses.

I am wondering this :
Since it's one of my heart's deepest desires to have race cars, planes, spaceships... do you guys think we will have them?

I mean if it's part of my hearts deepest desires... don't you think everyone will be getting cars?
Granted, if you can teleport yourself to different destinations you might say that's enough?

But what about the thrill of having a race car? Ferrari, McLaren, BMW.. etc...

What do you guys think?

Click to expand...

ARBITER01 said:

If you want a chariot, then talk to GOD about it.

Click to expand...