Prove that links exist

Subduction Zone said:

Well that is disappointing

The good news? This is not a dinosaur:

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He may be cold blooded, fat and lazy... but he sure looks like he's having a good time.

FutureAndAHope said:

Get me my evidence, or you are just blowing wind out of your lips.

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I think you should clarify what you do and don't accept about science so people aren't re-treading things you already accept.

Where do you stop accepting biological science:
Genetics are a factor in the form of life
Genetics are mostly inherited from parents
Genetics vary across the population
Genetics can change during reproduction

Are you okay with this so far?

FutureAndAHope said:

Ok, I am going to keep score.

- We have a group of monkey skulls
- 1 dino-bird archaeopteryx

Ok, I am a believer. Better work a bit harder guys, rather than insulting me. This, so far, is not evidence of evolution.

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You are being very silly.

Can you explain these things without evolution?

FutureAndAHope said:

Get me my evidence, or you are just blowing wind out of your lips.

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And give you air time? Now I'm the one chuckling. Fat chance, buddy. If others want to give you your moment in the creationist spotlight, then go for it. I joined this forum for the opportunity of having some sensible discussions with reasonable people. I won't get that here...

Checking out.

FutureAndAHope said:

Well golly gosh, there are at least four? Rolls around the floor laughing.

Four Famous Transitional Fossils That Support Evolution

Well shoot me now, this has changed my mind:

List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia

Still laughing hysterically.

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You realize the devastating effects you have on the Theory of Evolution. You now that by know all researchers in the paleontology department are cowering in fear. Textbooks are burned and exhibits are removed. All message boards are flooded with panicking messages. Imagine, FutureAndHope has posted two links and has been laughing at them. Never has science seen such a challenge. Such a well articulated criticism. Never taught that years and years of training, study and experience in the field could be blown away with just someone laughing hysterically.

FutureAndAHope said:

Ok, I am going to keep score.

- We have a group of monkey skulls
- 1 dino-bird archaeopteryx

Ok, I am a believer. Better work a bit harder guys, rather than insulting me. This, so far, is not evidence of evolution.

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Go to school or pay us to give you an education. Otherwise what do we gain from spending hours trying to convince someone like you that evolution is a real thing?

Life moves on, scientists will continue to use evolution as a cornerstone of biology whether you personally believe in it or not.

FutureAndAHope said:

I have eyes and a mind. Make use of yours. Seeing you can easily overwhelm me you had better get started.

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That's the weird thing, the theory of evolution is just a conclusion of the evidence of the physical world. It isn't a tenet of some faith, it's just facts about biology that fills in the gaps as to why plants and animals are structured the way they are.

(Also the aggressive arrogance about being non-specifically right, while modern scientific research is wrong comes off as unconvincing as when the Flat-Earthers use the same tactic around here.)

FutureAndAHope said:

Surely a quick glance at the web will be a gold mine, for me. Looks like you educated lot are real good at hiding the evidence from the public.

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There are more than enough resources out there that explain evolution in detail, and even for free. And it's not even hard to find.

I would start here: https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php

And after you have worked through that and still have questions, then I would recommend driving to your nearest university to talk to a professional about it.

FutureAndAHope said:

I have looked up the resource you suggested, and as I suspected, there is no overwhelming evidence in the section we are discussing in this thread, transitional forms.

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/lines_03

You need to also think with a critical mind. For a minute step out of the evolutionist mindset, and think critically. I am not asking for something unreasonable, I am asking for simple evidence of evolution. Evidence that can be processed by the lowliest of minds.

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Thank you for confirming to all of us that you are not interested in learning what evolution is after all.

I don't need to "step out of the evolutionist mindset", whatever that is even supposed to mean. I did what you should have done, gone to school.

FutureAndAHope said:

Ok, I know to you this is evidence, but does a series of monkey skulls "prove", evolution? Everything has evolved, right? You must prove that. It is possible you have just found various species of monkey?

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They like to throw that around like it means something.

That thing is a Hominid Transition Chart, as follows:

A = Pan troglodyte = chimpanzee
B = Australopithecus africanus
C = Australopithecus africanus
D = Homo habilis
E = Homo habilis
F = Homo ergaster
G = Homo heidelbergensis
H = Homo neanderthalensis
I = Homo neanderthalensis
J = Homo neanderthalensis
K = Homo sapiens (Cro-Magnon)
L = Homo sapiens (modern)

With the exception of A (chimpanzee), I say they were all tax-paying citizens at one time.

B - K had bone-altering diseases.

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

FutureAndAHope said:

Ok, let's start with Archaeopteryx. It is a reptilian-like creature, with a wing. Where are the transitions to birds? Or from reptile to Archaeopteryx. It is a self-contained creature, and could easily have been created the way it is. There is no reason to say it has to be the result of evolution.

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Modern reptiles aren't known for perching in trees or feathered wings.

Modern birds aren't known for long reptilian tails and toothed maws.

This creature is exactly a transitional form between two related groups.

FutureAndAHope said:

As for the monkey skulls, without sitting down with an expert, and having each one assessed, I can make no comment. However there are a myriad of creationist sites willing to put up their hands to dispute the validity of the image you showed me.

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So you ask for examples of transitional forms... the classical "missing links" between basal apes and modern humans are presented, then you claim that you aren't an expert and can't accept the evidence, but you are sure someone, somewhere must know they are wrong.

Doesn't that strike you as an extremely dishonest way to have a discussion?

Creationists sites are notorious for lying about transitional primate fossils, and usually pretty vague about what counts as transitional in the first place.

If you have an example that is both honest about the facts and has a coherent critique of hominid evolutionary history, I'd be interested in reading it.

FutureAndAHope said:

Where are the transitions from mammal to monkey? We have monkeys alive today, similar to all those skulls. But for evolution to be true there must be transitions from small mammals to monkeys, etc.

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Sure, the animals had to have to existed, but forest dwellers don't fossilise well so we don't have good examples from the split.

We do still have lemurs that are more similar to the base squirrel-like creatures that are ancestral to many modern mammals.

The genetic evidence demonstrating not just common traits, but a family tree of species is a better modern demonstration of the evolution of primates.

FutureAndAHope said:

There is a vast difference between a Dinosaur and a man. If we are honest with ourselves there must be huge numbers of transitional forms. I have started this thread with the goal of showing there are not these transitions.

Could the Evolutionists in this thread put up links to the best-known transitions. I will not accept something like one example, how many creatures are there in the world? Millions, so we should have millions of transitions.

Also Horse and Dog evolution will not be accepted, due to the fact today we still have varying sizes of Dogs. Any size-based transition will be rejected. For it does not prove a change in type, only a change in size.

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The mathematical probably of everything that had to specifically resulting from "natural" occurrence(s) that is ... what we see and know of today can't even be calculated ... that's why it's theory.

FutureAndAHope said:

Well golly gosh, there are at least four? Rolls around the floor laughing.

Four Famous Transitional Fossils That Support Evolution

Well shoot me now, this has changed my mind:

List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia

Still laughing hysterically.

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Your laughter is like unto that of a 6 yr old who
thinks a chalkboard covered with calculations
in an upper level main class is all a big joke.

His "hysterical laughter " would be cute, and far
better justified.

He, after all, knows math uses numbers and the
professor drew a bunch of squiggles!

At that, the 6 yr old would be showing far better
understanding of the subject than your post displays.

Shemjaza said:

He may be cold blooded, fat and lazy... but he sure looks like he's having a good time.

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May be cold blooded...there are good indications that
endothermy was already showing up in the Permian.
Tho I think those pelycosaurs prolly used the sail to
catch some rays and warm up fast in the morning.