Vatican warns US bishops about denying Communion to pro-choice politicians

TLK Valentine

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Vatican Warns U.S. Bishops About Denying Communion To Supporters Of Abortion Rights

The president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Archbishop José Gomez, previously informed the doctrinal office that U.S. bishops were preparing at their June meeting to draw up a document addressing "the situation of Catholics in public office who support legislation allowing abortion, euthanasia and other moral evils."

In a letter dated May 7, the head of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), Cardinal Luis Ladaria told Gomez that any such policy requires dialogue first among bishops themselves and then between bishops and Catholic politicians who support abortion rights — whom the cardinal specifically identified as "pro-choice." The letter was first reported Monday by Catholic News Service and the Jesuit magazine America.

Now, to be clear -- the Vatican isn't warning the Bishops not to do it; just that it takes dialogue... sounds like they're saying it shouldn't be an official policy, but weighed on a case-by-case basis.

Seems sensible to me.

Thoughts?
 

disciple Clint

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Vatican Warns U.S. Bishops About Denying Communion To Supporters Of Abortion Rights



Now, to be clear -- the Vatican isn't warning the Bishops not to do it; just that it takes dialogue... sounds like they're saying it shouldn't be an official policy, but weighed on a case-by-case basis.

Seems sensible to me.

Thoughts?
The Catholic Church cannot expect to be respected if it does not stand up for its standards and caves in to political pressure. Little by little the values will become meaningless.
 
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TLK Valentine

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The Catholic Church cannot expect to be respected if it does not stand up for its standards and caves in to political pressure. Little by little the values will become meaningless.

I agree, which is why I believe the Eucharist -- believed by Catholics to be the actual body of Christ -- should not be withheld as a form of political extortion.

So much about Christianity has been reduced to a political tool in this country; truly, is nothing sacred?
 
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Guinan

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I agree, which is why I believe the Eucharist -- believed by Catholics to be the actual body of Christ -- should not be withheld as a form of political extortion.

So much about Christianity has been reduced to a political tool in this country; truly, is nothing sacred?

I'm of the opinion that the Catholic Church's hierarchy needs to remove the plank in its own eye (stop protecting pedophile priests) before it looks at the speck of dust in the eyes of pro-choice politicians.
 
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Redac

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I agree, which is why I believe the Eucharist -- believed by Catholics to be the actual body of Christ -- should not be withheld as a form of political extortion.

So much about Christianity has been reduced to a political tool in this country; truly, is nothing sacred?
Uh huh, and that opinion is totally not cynical and political on your part, right? I mean, you seem to be invoking a teaching you obviously don't believe in and concern trolling about it in the hopes that it will get Christians (and more specifically Catholics) to take a position on this issue that you want them to take.

No no, I'm sure it's all motivated by a genuine belief in the Church's teachings and a concern for the sacraments. :rolleyes:
 
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TLK Valentine

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Uh huh, and that opinion is totally not cynical and political on your part, right?

So what if it is? I'm not the one holding the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven...

...for a price.

I mean, you seem to be invoking a teaching you obviously don't believe in and concern trolling about it in the hopes that it will get Christians (and more specifically Catholics) to take a position on this issue that you want them to take.

Not that you know -- or would care -- but I was a Catholic once. This is the sort of nonsense that drove me away.

In any case, I think you'll find I don't need anyone's permission to have an opinion on their political doctrine

No no, I'm sure it's all motivated by a genuine belief in the Church's teachings and a concern for the sacraments. :rolleyes:

I can't help it if I respect the beliefs more than the politicians (in or out of the red robes) do.
 
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disciple Clint

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I agree, which is why I believe the Eucharist -- believed by Catholics to be the actual body of Christ -- should not be withheld as a form of political extortion.

So much about Christianity has been reduced to a political tool in this country; truly, is nothing sacred?
Is human life not sacred?
 
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Redac

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So what if it is? I'm not the one holding the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven...

...for a price.
What point are you trying to make here? The keys of the Kingdom of Heaven in Catholicism are a symbol of the Church's eternal authority to bind and loose, and being in communion with the Church means recognizing and assenting to that authority.


Not that you know -- or would care -- but I was a Catholic once. This is the sort of nonsense that drove me away.
If you mean defects among the leadership, that's unfortunate but unsurprising. If you mean what I said, then I'm not really sure what to tell you. Regardless, you should know that unworthy reception of the Eucharist is a thing, and to do so knowingly is to commit a grave sin.

In any case, I think you'll find I don't need anyone's permission to have an opinion on their political doctrine
You were opining on whether or not the bishops should withhold the Eucharist from a public figure based on his political support for access to something that the Church considers to be a very grave matter. That's not "political doctrine". Abortion might be purely political for you, but we don't see it that way.

And yes, you're certainly free to have an opinion on it, but we as Catholics are under no obligation to take your opinion into consideration.


I can't help it if I respect the beliefs more than the politicians (in or out of the red robes) do.
If your opinion is, in fact, cynical and politically-motivated, then no, you do not actually respect the beliefs any more than the bishops you are accusing of acting that way.

If that's not the case, however, then I still think you're projecting. I'll concede it's possible that some of these bishops are purely driven here by political power and influence. I don't think that's the case, but I suppose it's possible. Still, as I said, this isn't a purely political issue from a Catholic perspective. I don't think the bishops in question are political operatives operating to support a GOP agenda and undermine the Democratic president, and to characterize this idea as "political extortion" is to misrepresent what's going on.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Some are, some aren't. People who are OK with capital punishment certainly follow this thinking.

Such people tend to cite the Bible as allowing capital punishment. They overlook the logic that once they give the government the power to kill, they lose any standing to complain about whom.
 
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TLK Valentine

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What point are you trying to make here? The keys of the Kingdom of Heaven in Catholicism are a symbol of the Church's eternal authority to bind and loose, and being in communion with the Church means recognizing and assenting to that authority.

Except it's not. Communion is an invitation from the Church to participate in the Body of Christ -- not a reward for jumping through the correct hoops.

If you mean defects among the leadership, that's unfortunate but unsurprising. If you mean what I said, then I'm not really sure what to tell you. Regardless, you should know that unworthy reception of the Eucharist is a thing, and to do so knowingly is to commit a grave sin.

You should know that we are all unworthy. Last I checked, Grace is still a thing.

You were opining on whether or not the bishops should withhold the Eucharist from a public figure based on his political support for access to something that the Church considers to be a very grave matter. That's not "political doctrine". Abortion might be purely political for you, but we don't see it that way.

Then why is it only public figures? Let the churches ask for a show of hands before bringing out the Host if they want to be consistent.

A few bishops want to make a show of denying it to the likes of Biden to make a point. Verily they have their reward.

And yes, you're certainly free to have an opinion on it, but we as Catholics are under no obligation to take your opinion into consideration.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

If your opinion is, in fact, cynical and politically-motivated, then no, you do not actually respect the beliefs any more than the bishops you are accusing of acting that way.

If that's not the case, however, then I still think you're projecting. I'll concede it's possible that some of these bishops are purely driven here by political power and influence. I don't think that's the case, but I suppose it's possible. Still, as I said, this isn't a purely political issue from a Catholic perspective. I don't think the bishops in question are political operatives operating to support a GOP agenda and undermine the Democratic president, and to characterize this idea as "political extortion" is to misrepresent what's going on.

There are pro-choice Republicans out there -- as well as plenty of pro-choice people who are not currently the President of the United States. As long as Biden is being singled out, it is most certainly political.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Man is not more powerful nor more just than God.

Perhaps not -- but I don't recall seeing "God" on the ballot last time I went to vote (although I'm sure at least one candidate thought he was).

We press forward with the government we have, not the government we wish we had.
 
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disciple Clint

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Perhaps not -- but I don't recall seeing "God" on the ballot last time I went to vote (although I'm sure at least one candidate thought he was).

We press forward with the government we have, not the government we wish we had.
Does that in anyway relate to my post.
 
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KCfromNC

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Vatican Warns U.S. Bishops About Denying Communion To Supporters Of Abortion Rights



Now, to be clear -- the Vatican isn't warning the Bishops not to do it; just that it takes dialogue... sounds like they're saying it shouldn't be an official policy, but weighed on a case-by-case basis.

Seems sensible to me.

Thoughts?
For one, if the church does decide to become a political lobbyist and endorse particular candidates by giving or refusing communion, I think that should have implications on their tax exempt status.
 
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