JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

LoveGodsWord · May 9, 2021

RBPerry said:
LoveGodsWord, why do you post the same stuff over and over again? Your just cluttering up the thread. We all know the scriptures. Post your own opinions and thoughts, think for yourself, don't just post the same old thing over and over, doesn't prove anything. Please understand I'm not attempting belittle your opinions but please make them fresh new thoughts. Most everyone interacting on these forums are well versed in the scriptures. Try thinking outside the box, look at the bible from a spiritual perspective and not a literal one.

They are all my own opinions and thoughts from God's Word. I have only posted what was written in a different thread in one post here which is new here regarding the same subject matter in regards to love and law. Same claims same arguments. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29). Our opinions do not matter only God's Word does and we should believe and follow them. What is it then that you disagree with from the scriptures I have shared here and why?

Leaf473 · May 9, 2021

imge said:
There is only one Gospel and one Truth. How we find the one Truth is by reading God's Word and allow God's will to be our will. The devil is in the churches and has deceived so many by half truths and lies like it's okay to erase one of God's Ten Commandments.

There is not one scripture in the entire Bible that says God's Sanctified, Blessed, made Holy and asked us to REMEMBER any other day expect for the seventh day. The choice is ours to make do we follow the traditions of man or God's commandments?

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.” Revelations 22:14

We follow God's commandments as the scriptures teach us.

The Bible is a really big book and it says a lot of things. I think some of the things it says don't line up very well with the ideas that you're putting forward, my wonderful sister.

SabbathBlessings · May 9, 2021

Leaf473 said:
We follow God's commandments as the scriptures teach us.

The Bible is a really big book and it says a lot of things. I think some of the things it says don't line up very well with the ideas that you're putting forward, my wonderful sister.

Which scripture do you not think lines up? I am assuming it’s the Sabbath commandment. It would help before making general accusations about someones “ideas” if you can provide more specific details so we can compare it to what the Bible’s teaches. Seems only fair, no?

Leaf473 · May 9, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here...

No. It is your view that is not stated in the scriptures. Romans 13:8-10 is God's Word posted verbatim (word for word) saying...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

My conclusion here being that loving our neighbor as our self as Paul states verbatim in the scripture is summing up those of God's Gods' 10 commandment that are our duty of love to our fellow man and by loving we do those things in Gods' law that express love to our fellow man, how is that not written in the scriptures verbatim shared above?

I believe the question you put to me was, "So how do we love our neighbor according to Romans 13:8-10?"

My impression was that your conclusion was that, according to Romans 13:8-10, we love our neighbor by keeping the commandments.

Was my impression correct? If so, I don't think your conclusion is stated in that passage.

If you're asking me what commandment sums up all the other commandments,
then yes, I agree that it is stated in that passage that love your neighbor sums up all the other commandments.

The above dear friend are Gods' Word not my words that you disagree with your words that are not God's Word with your words.

Well again, I think that would depend on what conclusions we're talking about.

Let me ask you dear friend. Do we love our neighbor in your view by stealing from them, lying to them, murdering them or committing adultery with their spouse? Do we love God by worshiping other God's, making idols and bowing down to worship them? Do we love God by using his name in vain and breaking His Sabbath?

Did you want me to answer each one of these questions one by one? Or shall I consider them to be rhetorical or thought-provoking?

If you say no to these questions and that if we love God we will be obedient...

Careful now, you're using a different term. Just previously we were talking about "keeping" the commandments.

By "obedient" do you mean physically perform the actions described in all the commandments?

...to God's law then what is it here that you disagree with and why?

I don't think anyone on this thread says to not keep God's commandments.

The questions, stated or unstated, are about how we go about fulfilling them.

Something to pray about.

Always!
Peace my friend!

Leaf473 · May 9, 2021

imge said:
Which scripture do you not think lines up? I am assuming it’s the Sabbath commandment.

No, more like your approach to all the commandments of God in general.

It would help before making general accusations about someones “ideas” if you can provide more specific details so we can compare it to what the Bible’s teaches. Seems only fair, no?

Well, in the past on different threads, it seemed to me that when I wanted to discuss details and get down to "brass tacks", you wanted to take the conversation back to more general ideas, like "But God says to remember the Sabbath."

And I think on this thread you had referred to some scripture passages I talked about as "obscure verses".

So, did I misunderstand you earlier? Do you really, really want to talk about details, my Sister?

SabbathBlessings · May 9, 2021

Leaf473 said:
No, more like your approach to all the commandments of God in general.

Well, in the past on different threads, it seemed to me that when I wanted to discuss details and get down to "brass tacks", you wanted to take the conversation back to more general ideas, like "But God says to remember the Sabbath."

And I think on this thread you had referred to some scripture passages I talked about as "obscure verses".

So, did I misunderstand you earlier? Do you really, really want to talk about details, my Sister?

Yes, as long as we can try not go around in circles again. Your accusation is that my “ideas” don’t line up with scriptures, so why don’t we start with your main concern.

For the record, I do not think God’s 4th commandment, the Sabbath day He asked us to keep holy is a “general idea” it is a commandment from our Creator and Redeemer.

RBPerry · May 9, 2021

Imge, you are wanting to live under the old covenant that was given to Israel, it was never given to the gentiles. The new covenant is what Jesus taught, study Mathew 5 and prayerfully, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into understanding what He wants from your life.
When we get so caught up in religious dogma we sometimes lose sight of the fact that God is willing to guide us to where he wants us.
If you are convinced you are where God wants you, and understand His purpose for your life, then by all means follow that. However, the Holy Spirit leads people in many different directions based on factors such as their spiritual growth, and purpose in this life.
That is why I said your truth isn't my truth, meaning I believe God has a different purpose for me.
Remember what Jesus said to the woman at the well. He said a time is coming and it is now when people will worship God in spirit, that was a profound statement by Christ.

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello Leaf,

I have posted scripture verbatim (word for word) which is Gods' Words not mine. Here let me highlight it again in red for you...

So you believe we are still tied to the Mosaic law, the law given to Israel. As I said to Imge, we have a new covenant and the majority of Christianity understands that. If you wish to live by the old covenant you are welcome to do so. Just don't make it a requirement for others, because it isn't.

Bob S · May 10, 2021

For everyone either participating or just lurking I would like to, once again, reiterate that all of the laws of the old covenant, the ones given at Sinai, were intended to serve only those who heard the requirements of the covenant and their posterity. There was an "IF" clause in the agreement, covenant, If Israel did not keep the covenant's requirements the covenant would be voided. That, of course, is exactly what happened. Israel didn't live up to their part and the covenant ended at Calvary. All the laws of that covenant likewise ended. I don't care how the laws of the covenant were written, they all ended. Anyone who teaches that because the 10 commandments were written by God's own finger on stones and are immortal does not have the truth.

Gentiles were never under the covenant given at Sinai. They didn't observe days God ordained for His one people. Those who so fervently try to tell the World's population that we all have to obey the commands given only to Israel do not understand how the covenant worked and the scope of who was affected by the laws of that covenant.

There are no special days ordained by Jesus in His new covenant. Anyone who tries to tell you differently is doing so without scriptural proof. The fact is that the Sinai covenant did not work for Israel in the past. Those who continue to try to impose any part of it on mankind today are denying Jesus' mission to this Earth to give us a covenant that does work to save all mankind from our real sins.

SabbathBlessings · May 10, 2021

RBPerry said:
Imge, you are wanting to live under the old covenant that was given to Israel, it was never given to the gentiles. The new covenant is what Jesus taught, study Mathew 5 and prayerfully, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into understanding what He wants from your life.
When we get so caught up in religious dogma we sometimes lose sight of the fact that God is willing to guide us to where he wants us.
If you are convinced you are where God wants you, and understand His purpose for your life, then by all means follow that. However, the Holy Spirit leads people in many different directions based on factors such as their spiritual growth, and purpose in this life.
That is why I said your truth isn't my truth, meaning I believe God has a different purpose for me.
Remember what Jesus said to the woman at the well. He said a time is coming and it is now when people will worship God in spirit, that was a profound statement by Christ.

So you believe we are still tied to the Mosaic law, the law given to Israel. As I said to Imge, we have a new covenant and the majority of Christianity understands that. If you wish to live by the old covenant you are welcome to do so. Just don't make it a requirement for others, because it isn't.

I want to obey God period. Who is the Second Covenant made to? You seem to think it’s different laws and different people but God made it pretty clear Jeremiah 31:33. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Do you think these laws written in our hearts do not include God’s Ten Commandments that were placed in the most holy of holy in God’s Sanctuary? Israel is also a metaphor for God’s people. Do you want to be one of God’s people? The Old Testament is not erased because of the New Testament. Jesus did not come from heaven to do a different will than God’s. 1 John 6:38 God wrote His will for us on stone with His own finger and spoke with His own voice. It just seems like the only commandment people take issue with is the one God specifically asked us to REMEMBER which is the opposite of what most people are teaching these days. I prefer to stay on the narrow path and while it is not the popular path, it’s the path God told us to take.

Studyman · May 10, 2021

Bob S said:
For everyone either participating or just lurking I would like to, once again, reiterate that all of the laws of the old covenant, the ones given at Sinai, were intended to serve only those who heard the requirements of the covenant and their posterity. There was an "IF" clause in the agreement, covenant, If Israel did not keep the covenant's requirements the covenant would be voided. That, of course, is exactly what happened. Israel didn't live up to their part and the covenant ended at Calvary. All the laws of that covenant likewise ended. I don't care how the laws of the covenant were written, they all ended. Anyone who teaches that because the 10 commandments were written by God's own finger on stones and are immortal does not have the truth.

One reason the Christ became a Man in the person of Jesus, and "dwelt among us" was, Well, here, I'll let HIM Tell you.

Matt. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This begs the question "Why were they lost"? The Christ also inspired the answer to this question.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

So what did the Shepherds do that caused God's People to go astray?

Jesus said:

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jeremiah also confirms that Jesus is Speaking Biblical Truth.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

So Bob, one reason why Jesus came was to save men from the religious philosophies of false preachers. As HE Warns "Take Heed no man deceive you".

So let's take a look at your sermon here, and compare it with the actual teaching of the Holy Scriptures, as Jesus did to show who is in Him, and who are preaching doctrines of men.

"For everyone either participating or just lurking I would like to, once again, reiterate that all of the laws of the old covenant, the ones given at Sinai, were intended to serve only those who heard the requirements of the covenant and their posterity."

So what does the God of the Bible teach?

Ex. 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And again;

IS. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So Bob, what you preach, and what God preaches are 2 different things here. Why are you leading people away from God's Word by preaching things about Him which are not true?

So let's look at the rest of your preaching here.

"All the laws of that covenant likewise ended. I don't care how the laws of the covenant were written, they all ended."

So let's see what the God of the Bible says about your religious philosophy regarding the broken Covenant.

Ex. 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

OK Bob, here is the "Broken Covenant", the Covenant with God was broken, the Laws destroyed. So according to you, there was "NO MORE LAW". "all" THE law WAS DESTROYED.

So lets see what happened according to the God of the Bible.

EX. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

So Bob, what you posted here is in direct opposition to what God said. Your words and HIS Word's are opposite. According to the God of the Bible, These Tablets of Stone are still unbroken. The Covenant renewed. Except this time God ADDED temporary atonement Laws until the SEED should come. Why do you feel the desire to preach against the very God you claim to believe? I guess this would also be a good question for the Shepherds and Pharisees who also led people astray.

This is the very reason why Jesus said HE came as a man in the first place, to save men who were "led astray" by self proclaimed preachers who preach a vision of their own mind.

I'll continue in another post..

Bob S · May 10, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
You have done no such thing! So why make claims that are not true?

Denial, denial, it is all recorded LGW, but it is not worth the effort to prove my point. You would try, even then, to deny.

I indeed believe Paul's letter to the Corinthians. I do not believe your claim that it teaches Gods' 10 commandments are abolished is not biblical.

Of course, you don't, because of your preconceived beliefs. Tell me LGW, was Paul referring to Moses' head as being done away. That is absurd. What was glorious was done away. The ten commandments were glorious.

It is talking about the old and the new covenants and the two ministrations on stone and the Spirit. You interpret this as saying that God's 10 commandments have been abolished which is not biblical.

That statement is one of many that made me conclude that you have no idea what is the real truth. The real truth LGW is that the old covenant was abolished and the ten commandments were the words of that covenant. The covenant with its word ended at Calvary where the new and better covenant was established by Jesus and ratified by His Blood. One covenant ended and a new one started. New Priesthood, new laws. Jn 15:9-14 sums it up perfectly if you are up to understanding.

Scriptures have been shared with you many times regarding this. You choose to ignore what has been shared with you through the scriptures that disagree with your teachings that go against the scriptures shared with you while simply ignoring my posts and scriptures shared with you without replying.

Why would I continue to look up all the scripture you paste in your long-drawn-out posts when after reading some of them and finding out they are completely not relevant to the subject. Do you even read the scripture you post? If you did and are able to comprehend their meaning you would not post them.

So we will agree to disagree Bob as I do not believe your teachings that God's 10 commandments have been abolished is a biblical one and goes against the teachings of the whole bible. Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear. It will be come our judge come judgement day according to John 12:47-48.

And I certainly do not agree that the ten are part of the new covenant and the fact is that you cannot show where they are part of the new covenant.

According to the scriptures the role of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant has the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:4; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to leaf us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 to be made free to born again to walk in God's Spirit *John 3:3-7; Galatians 5:16. Those who are born again do not practice known unrepentant sin *1 John 3:9. Sin is defined in the scriptures as the transgression of God's law and the breaking of anyone of Gods' 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 and not believing and following Gods' Word *Romans 14:23. Your teachings of lawlessness (no law) go against the very teaching of Jesus in Matthew 5:17-20 and pretty much most of the new testament scriptures (scripture proof here)

Read Rom 3:4 and then tell us how it relates to the subject. Read Rom 7:7 and tell us it says we are under the requirements of the ten commandments. Read 1Jn 3:4 and then tell us it is referring to the ten. I just had to copy Gal 3:22-25 to show that those verses are diametrically opposed to what you are trying to convince us to believe. OY!
22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Children of God
23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

You must not have read those verses where Paul was saying "WE" meaning the Israelite nation. God didn't give the Law to any other nation now did He? Now go back to your first statement in your post and do some pondering.

The fact is LGW we are under law, much greater law than just ten commands. We are under the Law of Love. If we love God and man we will do nothing to harm them. We are not under the guardian laws of the old covenant. Teaching otherwise is teaching untruth.

More to come...

Can't wait.

Leaf473 · May 10, 2021

imge said:
Yes, as long as we can try not go around in circles again.

I think the way we can avoid going in circles is to deal very carefully with the details.

Your accusation is that my “ideas” don’t line up with scriptures, so why don’t we start with your main concern.

I have many concerns. Let's start with what Jesus says in Matthew,
"For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.

Does the above sentence contain one "until" condition or two?

For the record, I do not think God’s 4th commandment, the Sabbath day He asked us to keep holy is a “general idea” it is a commandment from our Creator and Redeemer.

I hear what you're saying, and Amen!

Bob S · May 10, 2021

Studyman said:
One reason the Christ became a Man in the person of Jesus, and "dwelt among us" was, Well, here, I'll let HIM Tell you.

Matt. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This begs the question "Why were they lost"? The Christ also inspired the answer to this question.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

So what did the Shepherds do that caused God's People to go astray?

Jesus said:

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jeremiah also confirms that Jesus is Speaking Biblical Truth.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

So Bob, one reason why Jesus came was to save men from the religious philosophies of false preachers. As HE Warns "Take Heed no man deceive you".

So let's take a look at your sermon here, and compare it with the actual teaching of the Holy Scriptures, as Jesus did to show who is in Him, and who are preaching doctrines of men.

"For everyone either participating or just lurking I would like to, once again, reiterate that all of the laws of the old covenant, the ones given at Sinai, were intended to serve only those who heard the requirements of the covenant and their posterity."

So what does the God of the Bible teach?

Ex. 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And again;

IS. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So Bob, what you preach, and what God preaches are 2 different things here. Why are you leading people away from God's Word by preaching things about Him which are not true?

God did allow Gentiles to join and come under the covenant. The fact is though just as I stated the covenant was for the Israelites and their posterity. It was intended for them only as we can plainly read in Ex 19:5-6, 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

Ex 20: 2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Deut 5: 1 Moses summoned all Israel and said:

Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

Need I defend my statement more Studyman? Bone up my friend.

So let's look at the rest of your preaching here.

You didn't do so good the first denial, so let's see what else you believe I False "preach".

"All the laws of that covenant likewise ended. I don't care how the laws of the covenant were written, they all ended."

So let's see what the God of the Bible says about your religious philosophy regarding the broken Covenant.

Ex. 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

OK Bob, here is the "Broken Covenant", the Covenant with God was broken, the Laws destroyed. So according to you, there was "NO MORE LAW". "all" THE law WAS DESTROYED.

Come on now brother that is so unintelligent concerning what I wrote I won't even bother to address it. Every intelligent person knows that what I wrote is concerning the end of the old covenant as confirmed in Jer 31 and throughout the book of Hebrews. Again, the remainder of your post is not relevant to what I wrote and I won't be drawn in to your useless debate.

Studyman · May 10, 2021

Bob S said:
Gentiles were never under the covenant given at Sinai.

So again, let's see who was gathered at Sinai.

Ex. 12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Remember, this was for Jews, and Non-Jews who chose to partake with them. "One Law"!

Ex. 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.

38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

These would be the Non-Jews who placed their trust in the God of Abraham, regarding the Blood of the Lamb.

So the Truth from the Bible is, that only those men, Stranger or Home born, it didn't matter, who placed the Blood of the Lamb on the door of their house, was gathered at Sinai.

And GOD Specifically created LAW to protect these "strangers" from persecution.

Lev. 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

So Bob, once again your preaching, and God's Word are two different things. In the Old Covenant, I might not be able to discern your preaching because i wouldn't have access to the Oracles of God. But in the New Covenant, as promised, I have the Oracles of God in my own home, in my mind, and in my heart. I don't have to be a "Lost Sheep", the True Shepherd guides me, IF I believe in His Words.

They didn't observe days God ordained for His one people. Those who so fervently try to tell the World's population that we all have to obey the commands given only to Israel do not understand how the covenant worked and the scope of who was affected by the laws of that covenant.

All those non-Israelites who partook of the Passover were in the Covenant of God. At least according to HIM. Now you and the Pharisees and false shepherds preach differently, but God's Word in your own Bible clearly tells us that God accepts anyone who "Takes a hold of His Covenant".

IS. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

You might not believe HIM, but your unbelief doesn't make HIM a liar.

There are no special days ordained by Jesus in His new covenant. Anyone who tries to tell you differently is doing so without scriptural proof.

I already posted where the Spirit of Christ inspired Isaiah to show us who the Sabbath is for. It's right in your own Bible. Did Jesus teach against HIS OWN Spirit?

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

No, Jesus and the Law and Prophets are in complete Union. He inspired it to be written "EVERYONE who keeps the Sabbath" in the Law and Prophets, and said the same thing "Sabbath was made for "MAN" when HE walked the earth.

He didn't imply, suggest, say or even hint that HIS Sabbath was only for men of a certain DNA. That is your religious philosophy taught to you by the religious philosophers of this world.

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The fact is that the Sinai covenant did not work for Israel in the past.

Who teaches you all these Windy's Bob? Can you name even one example of faith given in the faith Chapter, that didn't include partaking in God's Covenant? Why was Caleb and Joshua allowed in the promised land?

Do the Scriptures hold any influence with you at all?

Those who continue to try to impose any part of it on mankind today are denying Jesus' mission to this Earth to give us a covenant that does work to save all mankind from our real sins.

Jesus did HIS Part Bob, HE told us what to do. He gave us a fresh start. You have just been convinced, by the other voice in the garden, not to believe Him.

If men are going to Claim the God of the Bible as their God, and HIS Son as their Savior, then it seems they would listen to Him, and certainly not preach things about HIM which are untrue.

As HE Himself also said. "Man shall LIVE BY Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God."

Some believe in Him, some create their own savior.

SabbathBlessings · May 10, 2021

Leaf473 said:
I think the way we can avoid going in circles is to deal very carefully with the details.

I have many concerns. Let's start with what Jesus says in Matthew,
"For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.

Does the above sentence contain one "until" condition or two?

I hear what you're saying, and Amen!

I am sure we have been through this verse a more than once, but I am willing to go through it again, if it helps. You also can't take this one verse by itself, so if you really want to understand the meaning you need the whole passage.

Mathew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Most believe this passage means that the law has been set aside and no longer valid "fulfilled" but after reading the whole passage do you think that is what Jesus is saying? To me it says the opposite because 1. heaven and earth are still here and 2. sin is everywhere. We are told this about sin: 1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

We are told in Isaiah Jesus came to magnify God's laws not "remove" Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. If you read on in Mathew Jesus did just that when He said murder begins in the heart Mathew 5:21-36 Not only does Jesus not want us to physically murder, we should not even have those thoughts in our hearts or minds.

Back to the passage in question Jesus said: Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Does this sound like Jesus is giving a license to sin or that the law has been "fulfilled" so we no longer have to obey? That would seem like a huge contradiction from what Jesus is saying and what He teaches us. John 14:15, John 15:10

This is what I think the scripture means, what do you think it means?

Bob S · May 10, 2021

Studyman said:
So again, let's see who was gathered at Sinai.

Ex. 12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Remember, this was for Jews, and Non-Jews who chose to partake with them. "One Law"!

Ex. 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.

38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

These would be the Non-Jews who placed their trust in the God of Abraham, regarding the Blood of the Lamb.

So the Truth from the Bible is, that only those men, Stranger or Home born, it didn't matter, who placed the Blood of the Lamb on the door of their house, was gathered at Sinai.

And GOD Specifically created LAW to protect these "strangers" from persecution.

Lev. 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

So Bob, once again your preaching, and God's Word are two different things. In the Old Covenant, I might not be able to discern your preaching because i wouldn't have access to the Oracles of God. But in the New Covenant, as promised, I have the Oracles of God in my own home, in my mind, and in my heart. I don't have to be a "Lost Sheep", the True Shepherd guides me, IF I believe in His Words.

All those non-Israelites who partook of the Passover were in the Covenant of God. At least according to HIM. Now you and the Pharisees and false shepherds preach differently, but God's Word in your own Bible clearly tells us that God accepts anyone who "Takes a hold of His Covenant".

IS. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

You might not believe HIM, but your unbelief doesn't make HIM a liar.

I already posted where the Spirit of Christ inspired Isaiah to show us who the Sabbath is for. It's right in your own Bible. Did Jesus teach against HIS OWN Spirit?

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

No, Jesus and the Law and Prophets are in complete Union. He inspired it to be written "EVERYONE who keeps the Sabbath" in the Law and Prophets, and said the same thing "Sabbath was made for "MAN" when HE walked the earth.

He didn't imply, suggest, say or even hint that HIS Sabbath was only for men of a certain DNA. That is your religious philosophy taught to you by the religious philosophers of this world.

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Who teaches you all these Windy's Bob? Can you name even one example of faith given in the faith Chapter, that didn't include partaking in God's Covenant? Why was Caleb and Joshua allowed in the promised land?

Do the Scriptures hold any influence with you at all?

Jesus did HIS Part Bob, HE told us what to do. He gave us a fresh start. You have just been convinced, by the other voice in the garden, not to believe Him.

If men are going to Claim the God of the Bible as their God, and HIS Son as their Savior, then it seems they would listen to Him, and certainly not preach things about HIM which are untrue.

As HE Himself also said. "Man shall LIVE BY Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God."

Some believe in Him, some create their own savior.

Once again all I see is criticism of a perfectly good post that in no way warrants such criticism. You are only discrediting yourself trying to critique my post. By the way, in order for any man who was not an Israelite it was law that they become circumcised before being able to partake of Passover. Most believe it also pertained to any of the rites. Another point as long as I am critiquing your post, the Israelites were not considered or called Jews until much later, I believe in the book of Ezra.

RBPerry · May 10, 2021

These debates have become circular arguments that are going nowhere. I think people need to be able to look outside the bible as well as scripture. What I see here is people stuck in their own dogma and unwilling to consider anything that doesn't fit their beliefs.

Bob S · May 10, 2021

RBPerry said:
These debates have become circular arguments that are going nowhere. I think people need to be able to look outside the bible as well as scripture. What I see here is people stuck in their own dogma and unwilling to consider anything that doesn't fit their beliefs.

You are correct my friend. The arguments are going nowhere. The problem is that if we allow those who think the remainder of us are sinning because we do not conform to their beliefs and teach those false doctrines someone has to counter those beliefs, we are doing a disservice to those who just read the posts.

Studyman · May 10, 2021

Bob S said:
God did allow Gentiles to join and come under the covenant. The fact is though just as I stated the covenant was for the Israelites and their posterity. It was intended for them only as we can plainly read in

Need I defend my statement more Studyman? Bone up my friend.

This was you statement; "Gentiles were never under the covenant given at Sinai."

Which, of course, as the Scriptures I posted clearly show, is untrue. You didn't defend your Statement Bob, you changed it to read something else. "God did allow Gentiles to join and come under the covenant".

I'm glad you corrected yourself here. And BTW, you are welcome.

But you jumped right into another falsehood. "The fact is though just as I stated the covenant was for the Israelites and their posterity. It was intended for them only as we can plainly read in.

I'll let Paul correct you on this one.

1 Cor. 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our (New Covenant Believers) examples, to the intent we (New Covenant Believers) should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our (New Covenant Believers) admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him (Jew or Gentile) that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

The Instructions of God, the Examples of Faith and rebellion, the circumstances, were all written Specifically for us New Covenant believers Bob. Just as the Sabbath was made for man, so also is the entire Law and Prophets that you preach is obsolete.

The only reason I reply to your sermons, is because they contradict the Scriptures so much. As is clearly shown.

Come on now brother that is so unintelligent concerning what I wrote I won't even bother to address it. Every intelligent person knows that what I wrote is concerning the end of the old covenant as confirmed in Jer 31 and throughout the book of Hebrews. Again, the remainder of your post is not relevant to what I wrote and I won't be drawn in to your useless debate.

Again, I was addressing what you actually said.

"There was an "IF" clause in the agreement, covenant, If Israel did not keep the covenant's requirements the covenant would be voided. That, of course, is exactly what happened. Israel didn't live up to their part and the covenant ended at Calvary. All the laws of that covenant likewise ended.

Where do you even find this preaching? And why can't you acknowledge that God gave them the same Laws they broke right back to them, with the exception of an "ADDED" Priesthood Hebrews calls the Levitical Priesthood that Abraham did have.

And as for the promise in Jeremiah;

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

OK Bob, here it is. Here is God defining HIS OWN NEW Covenant.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

No mention about God's Law ending, being "over", after those day at all. Just the opposite, God will place them in our minds.

Now you are preaching that the New Covenant is the "END" of God's Laws. I posted the Scriptures you referred to, but I see nothing that even suggests the End of God's Instructions.

i see where the manner in which God's Law is Administered changed, and the Manner in which Sins are forgiven changed, but where is the abolition of God's Law you preach mentioned?

I'm not trying to "Draw you" into anything Bob. You volunteered a sermon, I compared it with the actually teaching of the Christ, and the 2 are different.

If you already know this and are purposely miss-representing the Holy Scriptures, then I am wasting my time for sure. But if you have just been deceived by the "other voice" in the garden, then I should do what I can to point this out to you, so that you might escape the snare of the devil.

And Hebrews says

RBPerry · May 10, 2021

Bob S said:
You are correct my friend. The arguments are going nowhere. The problem is that if we allow those who think the remainder of us are sinning because we do not conform to their beliefs and teach those false doctrines someone has to counter those beliefs, we are doing a disservice to those who just read the posts.

Bob, I agree with you otherwise I wouldn't be here. I suppose what I was looking for, and have been looking for a long time, is a little more open mindedness by the minority of Christian thinking.

JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

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