JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Bob S said:

We hear the same old junk Dan over and over.


That is correct LGW the 10 are abolished and we are NOT free to do whatever we wish.

I get so tired of correcting SDAs when they tell us we are free to do whatever we wish. I answer to Jesus and His Royal Law of ❤. You refer to Heb 4 as the verses that tell us we are under the ritual Sabbath command. Well, for one thing the writer of Hebrews was writing to Sabbath observing Jews not about Sabbath observance but about finding rest in Jesus which the writer says they never did. He was not writing to Gentiles or Gentile Christians so your "proof texts" don't prove anything and are like many of the ways you do disservice to those who read your posts. As for the remainder of the 10, they are neatly found in all the many ways we can dishonor God and our fellow man. I am certainly glad that the laws of the 10 that dealt with morality are mentioned for our edification. The 10 didn't even contain the greatest commands of love to God and Love to our fellow man.

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Sorry Bob you should look to correct yourself rather than as you say becoming tiled, trying to correct others but let me explain why. We will agree to disagree here Bob as there is no scripture in all of God's Word that teaches that God's 10 commandments are abolished. That teaching is simply not biblical. God's law is not separated from love it is expressed through love. Let me explain what I means here through the scriptures.

According to the scriptures we need to be changed from the inside out (born again to walk in God's Spirit). Love according to the scriptures is expressed through obedience to God's LAW (10 Commandments) not by breaking Gods' law. Jesus shows this in Matthew when he says that love is not separate from Gods' law because all the law and the prophets are fulfilled by love in..

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. (Jesus is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 from the old testament)

Jesus is stating here that love fulfills God's law. He is not saying Gods' law is abolished as he tells us in Matthew 5:17 not to think that he is come to destroy the law or the prophets. Paul shows this same idea in Romans as does Jesus in Romans when he says...

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.Indeed brother UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN (Breaking any one of God's 10 commandments).

Paul stating here that if we love our fellow man we will do those commandments from God's 10 commandments that are specific to our neighbor and is stating in Romans 13:9 that loving our neighbor as our self is simply summing up being obedient to all those law from Gods' 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man. Therefore if we sin (break anyone of God's 10 commandments) 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:10-11 then we are not loving God or our fellow man.

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (moral wrong doing) IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.[18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

James also agrees with Jesu

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) through faith that works by LOVE is how RIGHTEOUSNESS is expressed.

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Once more John also agrees with Jesus, Paul and James when he writes...

1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], By this WE KNOW WHEN WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [3] FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS.

2 JOHN 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

So it is very clear that there is nothing in these scriptures teaching that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished Bob. Paul, James and John all agreeing with Jesus when he says

JOHN 14:15 [15] IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

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Now if LOVE is the very expression of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) are the very definition of what RIGHTEOUSNESS is *PSALMS 119:172, and to break any one of God's 10 commandments is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. How can you LOVE GOD and your NEIGHBOR as yourself, if we have no LOVE and break God's Commandments which ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG *MATTHEW 22:36-40?

Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE from the INSIDE OUT we are only like dead mans bones and all we can do without JESUS is SIN *1 JOHN 3:4.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbor therefore as Paul says in Romans 13:8-10...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with their spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. *Matthew 22:36-40.

Sorry Bob God's Word does not teach anywhere that the 10 commandments are abolished.

Hope this is helpful.

BABerean2 said:

Do you think the rest of us are promoting, lying, and stealing, and committing adultery?


Why did you ignore the rest of Matthew chapter 5 where Christ quoted from the Old Covenant and then added "But I say..." ?


Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
Mat 5:26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Divorce
Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Oaths
Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
Retaliation
Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
Mat 5:41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
Mat 5:42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
Love Your Enemies
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Mat 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


The passages above contrast the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

Based on the above, the New Covenant is a higher standard than the Old Covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.

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The scriptures you have provided here support what I have been sharing with you here already in this thread so they do not support a teaching that God's 10 commandments have been abolished but support what is being shared with you here in this very thread and that is we need to be born again from the inside out to love God and keep His Commandments.

Jesus came to magnify God’s 10 commandment from the inside out quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (applying adultery and murder to our thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our rightouesness exceeds the rightouesness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. Evil (moral wrong doing) begins in the heart. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart according to Jesus is what defiles a man in Matthew 15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28.

Jesus magnified the law to the inseide out. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have God’s new covenant promise to of a new heart to love and why we need to be born again by faith in God's Word for salvation to be free from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10.

This is leading to the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; John 5:42; 1 John 5:17-19; 1 John 4:16; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:8.

Without Jesus we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. We need to be born of God to love *1 John 4:7 and partake of the new covenant promise. This is why Jesus teaches in *John 3:3-7 that unless we are made clean from the inside out and born again to love we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's law from the inside out and applying God’s 10 commandments to our very thoughts.

Whosoever is born of god to love in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12 does not commit sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 3:9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Matthew 22:36-40. This is the good news of the gospel in the new covenant. We have a Saviour to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4.

1 John 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are born again to love and it is love that fulfills God's law in all those who believe and follow god's word in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God’s law (10 commandments) from the inside out. *Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 8:10-12. Unless we are born again to love we cannot enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7.

Now if LOVE is the very expression of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) are the very definition of what RIGHTEOUSNESS is *PSALMS 119:172, and to break any one of God's 10 commandments is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. How can you LOVE GOD and your NEIGHBOR as yourself, if we have no LOVE and break God's Commandments which ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG *MATTHEW 22:36-40?

Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE from the INSIDE OUT we are only like dead mans bones and all we can do without JESUS is SIN *1 JOHN 3:4.

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. According to God's WORD if we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

It is JESUS that says all those who KNOWINGLY follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God brother not me *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Who then do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God or men *ROMANS 3:4. Yep I know who I believe. You provide your own words. My words are not my own but God's WORD. It is the Word of God that will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.

Now where is the scripture that says God’s 4th Commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? There is no scripture is there? If there is no scripture for this tradition who should we believe and follow according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9; God or man?

Something to pray about.

BABerean2 said:

You are correct. The 4th commandment has not been "abolished". It has been fulfilled, and is now "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13.

For those in the New Covenant Christ is our Sabbath rest every day of the week.
We are not to accuse others of improperly keeping the Sabbath day, as the Pharisees did to Christ.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Is meeting on the first day of the week wicked?

Luk_24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Joh_20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co_16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


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Nowhere in scripture does it teach anywhere that Jesus fulfilled Gods law (10 commandments) so that we do not have to. Just the same as Colossians 2:16 does not teach that Gods' 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break God's law when the new testament scriptures teach if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7 and Romans 3:20.

Jesus even saying in His own words if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are now worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. So the question we must all consider is very simple. Who do we believe and follow God or man? God's people dear friend according to the scriptures in Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47 met everyday of the week to worship God.

This of course never being a commandment of God being a holy day of rest according to the scriptures or Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20. Those who knowingly practice sin (not believing God's Word aned breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments) and those who do not practice sin according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Who then do we believe and follow dear friend, God or man? For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:32.

Something to pray about.

You really need some new material Dan as this has been addressed over and over since CC days. Yet you post the same old cut and pastes from the words of websites.

Danthemailman said:

Like a broken record and the end result is "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works."(Galatians 1:6-9)

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I would say like a broken record salvation by grace without faith as faith without works according to James 2:17-20; 26 is the dead faith that devils have.

Danthemailman said:

Certain people hear the word 'abolished' and assume this means now we can steal, kill, take God's name in vain etc.. all we want, but that's not the case. You may like this article below: Eph 2:15 proves the 10 commandments are abolished

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Dan your word of website is in error. God's 10 commandments are not contained in ordinances and is not abolished. That is going against the very words of Jesus that says think not that I have come to destroy the law or the prophets and again in John who says in 1 John 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. This is confirmed also by Paul when he says faith does not abolish God's law and that Gods' law is established through faith in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law. So to make a claim that God's 10 commandments pretty much goes against all the teachings of the new testament scriptures and Jesus and the Apostles (need more scripture?). Finally you may want to do a bit more homework on the Greek word use for “ordinance” in Ephesians 2:15 and for that matter Colossians 2:14 which uses the same Greek word which is δόγμα (dógma | dog'-mah) Derivation: from the base of G1380; which means a civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. None of which refer to Gods’ 10 commandments.

more to come...

Danthemailman said:

The old covenant has been made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) and the new covenant is not simply the old covenant re-packaged. To abolish is to formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution). To make obsolete is no longer produced or used; out of date. Just because the old covenant has been made obsolete by the new covenant does not mean there is no moral guide for us under the new covenant and now it's anything goes, as the straw man argument goes. "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

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WHAT IS THE OLD COVENANT AND WHAT IS THE NEW?

I think many people do not understand what the old covenant actually is. They think it was only the 10 commandments. While the 10 commandments were included the old covenant according to the scriptures *Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13 it was only a part of the old covenant designed to give God's people a knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing). The old covenant also included all the "shadow laws" for remission of sins (Levitical Priesthood; laws for remission of sins through animal sacrifices and sin offerings, the ceremonial laws for the earthly sanctuary, annual Feasts, circumcision etc) and all the other laws written by Moses in the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7.

It is these "shadow laws" from the Mosaic book of the covenant that have been changed based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6 according to Gods' Word in Hebrews not God's 10 commandments. So in the new covenant we no longer follow the old covenant "shadow laws" for remission of sins. Jesus today is our great High Priest *Hebrews 7:1-25 ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man of which the earthly was just a copy *Hebrews 8:2-5, Jesus of course representing God's true sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all *John 1:29; 36; Hebrews 10:10.

It is the "shadow laws" for remission of sins from the Mosaic book of the covenant that are now fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 9:1-12; Hebrews 10:1-17 in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17. According to the scriptures both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic BOOK of the covenant were kept in the Ark of the covenant. God's 10 commandment were placed inside the Ark of the covenant underneath the mercy seat *Exodus 25:16-17; Deuteronomy 10:1-5 while the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 was placed in the side of the Ark *Deuteronomy 31:24-26.

So the full story here is that both God's 10 commandments as well as the Mosaic book of the law (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 28:61; 29:21; 30:10; 31:24-26; Josiah 1:8; 8:31-34; 23:6; 24:26; 2 Kings 14:6; 22:8-11; 23:24; 2 Chronicles 17:9; 25:4; 34:14-15; Nehemiah 8:1-8;18; 9:3; Galatians 3:10; Hebrews 9:19; Hebrews 10:7 etc) collectively make up the old covenant not just God’s 10 commandments.

It is the old covenant "shadow laws" for the remission of sins that pointed to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:1-6. Hebrews 10:1-17; Psalms 40:7, that are fulfilled and continued in Christ not God's 10 commandments.

The "shadow laws are those laws for the remission of sins that are fulfilled and continued in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17 in the new covenant as it is also written "Then said I, See, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me , Then said I, See, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, to do your will, O God * Hebrews 10:7 from Psalms 40:7. It is the volume of the book that pointed to Jesus that is fulfilled in the new covenant based on better promises not God's 10 commandments which are continued in the new covenant and according to the scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 (more scripture support here and here).

So to say we know what sin is without having Gods' 10 commandments is not biblical because the scriptures teach us that it is only by the law we have a knowledge of what sin is according to Paul in Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 which agrees with John in 1 John 3:4 and James in James 2:10-11.

It is the new ministration of the Spirit of God working through those who believe God's Word with Jesus as ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary that God promises to change our hearts to love that fulfills God's new covenant promise of salvation from sins to those who believe and follow Gods' Word according to Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:23-27 that Paul talks about in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Hebrews 10:1-22.

We need to be born again according to Jesus to walk in God's Spirit of love *John 3:3-7; Matthew 22:36-40; Galatians 5:16 because those who have been born again into God's new covenant promise do not knowingly practice sin (breaking God's commandments) according to John in 1 John 3:6-9 and those who do have not seen or know God according to 1 John 2:3-4. No one loves God by breaking His commandments as love is expressed through obedience to God's law according to Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40, Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 as we have faith in God's Word *1 John 5:4; Romans 3:31.

James 2:10-11 [10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

Hope this helps.

Bob S said:

Sorry LGW, but there is scripture telling us that the old covenant was fulfilled. Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law UNTIL everything is accomplished. IF YOU DON'T AGREE THAT JESUS ACCOMPLISHED FULFILLING THE LAW THEN YOU ARE SUBJECT TO ALL OF THE LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT. Jesus, on the Cross fulfilled ALL of the old covenant laws by canceling the covenant He made with Israel. He then initiated the new and better covenant not just for the Jews, but for all mankind. If you cannot comprehend this fact then I it is impossible for you to ever see the real truth.

There is scripture that tells us that the 10 WERE glorious, replaced with the Holy Spirit and are done away. 2Cor 3:6-11, but you tell us no and come up with a very lame excuse for not believing those verses tell us we are not under the 10. You would rather believe it was Moses face that was done away.

There are verses that tell us to keep the commandments and since Jesus fulfilled the law so that the jots and tittles are no longer required of the Israelites, keeping the commandments could not mean the old covenant laws since the 10 were done away as per 2Cor3. Keep the commandment's command came directly from Jesus in Jn 15: 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Tell us LGW, what were the commandments Jesus kept as a man living under the old covenant? Read it again LGW and tell us what commandments Jesus expects His followers to keep. That is correct LGW love each other as I have loved you.

Why can't you think out of the box LGW? The 10 commandments didn't begin to name all the ways the Israelites could harm one another and show disrespect to God. Why do you continue to think you would be righteous by keeping those few commands? The 10 didn't even name the greatest commands given to Israel, Love. Not one command for the Israelites to love their neighbors or God, they were all simply about duty to God and their fellow man. I am so thrilled to be out of a church that teaches what you post. I pray that you too will come to see the light.

I see no reason to continue to answer the remaining of you L O N G post.

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Bob, it seems your understanding of the old covenant may be in error but let me explain why and show it from the scriptures. Please have a read of post # 1393 linked to Dan it may be helpful

Danthemailman said:

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter. Many SDA's seem to mix both covenants and don't seem to have made the complete transition from the old covenant into the new covenant and remain under the law, which explains a lot of their confusion. In regards to our edification, the life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

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According to the scripture context that you have left out of 1 John 2:21-23 it is not pleasing in God’s eyes that we sin and break His commandments. Sin is defined early in 1 John 3:4 where is says “Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” It is not pleasing to God that we sin and the reason John is writing here is that we sin not in 1 John 2:1. In fact John goes on to say in 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6 that we do not know God if we knowingly break his commandments and that sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10.

Those who are born of God to love through faith do not practice sin according to 1 John 3:6-9. This is all context stated that leads into 1 John 3:23 in regards to love where love is also relevant as shown earlier in Matthew 22:36:40; Romans 13;8-10 and James 2:10-11 Love is not separate from Gods’ law it is expressed through it.

So to say we are now free to break any one of God’s 10 commandment and say we are expressing love by doing so is not biblical according to the scriptures as sin (breaking God’s law) is what those who do not know God do according to 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6-10. God’s people therefore love God and keep His commandments as shown in the scriptures provided in John 14:15; John 15:10: 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17: Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

According to the scriptures to love God with all of our heart and soul and our neighbour as our selves is not a new commandment they are old covenant scriptures that Jesus is quoting in Matthew 22:36-40 from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 that sum up how love in expressed in obedience to God’s 10 commandments.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOUR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with their spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.


If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. (Matthew 22:36-40) Love is does not abolish God’s law it is expressed in obedience to Gods’ law which is what Paul is showing in Romans 13:8-10 as well as James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 and why Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments in John 14:15 and John 15:10.

Love is not separate from Gods' law according to the scriptures it is expressed in obedience to God's law according to the scriptures.

Hope this is helpful.

Danthemailman said:

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

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Here Dan it looks like you missed a few scriptures. Lets add them back in...

GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS REPEATED IN THE NEW COVENANT

1 You shall have no other gods before Me. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)
2 You shall make no idols (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)
3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)
4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today -Hebrews 4:9 (Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days)
(Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10
5 Honour your father and mother. (Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)
6 You shall not murder (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)
7 You shall not commit adultery. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)
8 You shall not steal. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)
9 You shall not bear false witness. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)
10 You shall not covet your neighbors possessions. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Tim. 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

Need more scripture here linked and here linked

Hope this helps.

COLOSSIANS 2:16

Many mistakenly pull Colossians 2:16 from its context to try and claim that Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is a shadow law fulfilled in Christ without considering scripture and chapter context and the old testament scriptures Paul in referring to in regards to the annual sabbaths in the Feast days that are not Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

The Sabbath (God's 4th commandment) was not included as a "shadow law" in Colossians 2:16. It is the sabbath{s} plural to sabbaths or sabbath days {Genitive neuter plural} that sabbaton has application to in Colossians 2:16 the context of course is to the meat and drink offerings and the new moons that determine the seasons (Genesis 1:14) pointing to the Feast days and their sabbaths of the old covenant which were a shadow of things to come *Colossians 2:17.

That is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the Feast days that are the shadows of things to come not Gods' 4th commandment. There were many different types of sabbaths in the old covenant that are fulfilled in the new covenant promise. None of these however are in reference to Gods' weekly Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11.

These annual shadow sabbaths connected to the Feast days included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36.

It is impossible that Colossians 2:16 is in reference to God's 4th commandment as it a part of the "finished work of creation" *Genesis 2:1-3. There was no sin and no law and no plan of salvation for unfallen man when the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. Now notice something very important. God's 4th commandment does not point forward to things to come *Colossians 2:17 it points backward (Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy - Exodus 20:8). Gods 4th commandment points backwards because it is a memorial of the finished work of creation and the celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth...

Lets look at the commandment that points backward not forwards...

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> {Because it is a memorial looking back to the finished work of creation that JESUS made it a Holy day of rest for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day} [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God {This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK}: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT. {Reference is backward not forward to Genesis 2:1-3}

Therefore, it is impossible for God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath to be a "shadow law" as all the "shadow laws" are laws to do with God's plan of salvation from sin after the fall of mankind from the Mosaic book of the law. God's Sabbath was created when there was no sin, no fall, no law and no plan of salvation because mankind was in perfect harmony with God. – So there is nothing there in reference to Gods’ 4th commandment not being a requirement for Christian living in the new testament.

Hope this is helpful

BABerean2 said:

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
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Indeed what do you think the purpose of God's 10 commandments are for in the old and the new covenant *Matthew 9:12-13; Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 3:19-29; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 ? Do you know what the laws for remission of sins are in the old covenant and how they have changed in the new covenant? What is the purpose of Gods' 10 commandments in the new covenant?