Noachian Flood discussion - Bible skeptics vs Lion IRC and friends :)

Kylie · Apr 30, 2021

Lion IRC said:
If its any consolation, Im prepared to concede that maybe the flood was localised to occur solely over dry land and only flooded 1/3rd of the Earth
...the 1/3rd which we don't call oceans.

I've yet to see anything from you that justifies using the position "Noah's flood actually happened" as the default starting point.

Occams Barber · Apr 30, 2021

inquiring mind said:
Life-size Noah's Ark replica draws tourists in Netherlands

Huiber's Ark is a fake. It's actually floating on 21(hidden) steel LASH barges. Even with steel barge floatation it's not seaworthy. If it ever goes anywhere outside of inland waterways it will be on the back of a giant cargo carrier.

Johan's Ark - Wikipedia
The wooden construction is carried on a hidden floating platform from steel made up of 21 LASH barges.[1] Previously the LASH barges were cargo containers, towed or pushed as floating barges over inland waterways, while carried on large ships over rough seas. Hence the ark can be towed by tugboats over the rivers, but it is not seaworthy.

OB

inquiring mind · Apr 30, 2021

Occams Barber said:
Huiber's Ark is a fake. It's actually floating on 21(hidden) steel LASH barges. Even with steel barge floatation it's not seaworthy. If it ever goes anywhere outside of inland waterways it will be on the back of a giant cargo carrier.

Johan's Ark - Wikipedia
The wooden construction is carried on a hidden floating platform from steel made up of 21 LASH barges.[1] Previously the LASH barges were cargo containers, towed or pushed as floating barges over inland waterways, while carried on large ships over rough seas. Hence the ark can be towed by tugboats over the rivers, but it is not seaworthy.

OB

The original question was "how many trees did it take to build Noah's Ark?" It took 14,000 to build a replica. Like the original it has no engine so it has to be towed.
Life-sized Noah's Ark replica could set sail to Israel - ISRAEL21c
Noah's Ark replica could travel to Brazil this year

Occams Barber · Apr 30, 2021

inquiring mind said:
The original question was "how many trees did it take to build Noah's Ark?" It took 14,000 to build a replica. Like the original it has no engine so it has to be towed.
Life-sized Noah's Ark replica could set sail to Israel - ISRAEL21c
Noah's Ark replica could travel to Brazil this year

Huiber's Ark is built on a platform of STEEL BARGES. There were no steel barges available to Noah. Effectively it's nothing more than a timber building floating on steel pontoons.

IF it is ever moved, it will float on it's LASH barges - not on a timber hull.

IF it ever goes to Brazil or Israel (the trip to Brazil has been cancelled) it will be on the back of a specialised barge carrying transport. This type of transport is designed to sink under its cargo and then lift it to a level suitable for sea transport.

OB

inquiring mind · Apr 30, 2021

Occams Barber said:
Huiber's Ark is built on a platform of STEEL BARGES. There were no steel barges available to Noah. Effectively it's nothing more than a timber building floating on steel pontoons.

IF it is ever moved, it will float on it's LASH barges - not on a timber hull.

IF it ever goes to Brazil or Israel (the trip to Brazil has been cancelled) it will be on the back of a specialised barge carrying transport. This type of transport is designed to sink under its cargo and then lift it to a level suitable for sea transport.

OB

Again, the question was how many trees did it take to build Noah's Ark? It took 14,000 to build a replica the same size.

Hans Blaster · Apr 30, 2021

coffee4u said:
The fire has not yet happened!
God is going to destroy the earth and remake it into the new heavens and new earth.

Then you're off topic. This is about Noah and his flood, not a projected future event, no matter how similar it might be.

Hans Blaster · Apr 30, 2021

AV1611VET said:
It had no screws, no fasteners, no bolts, no nails: just wood and pitch.

Kinda like an igloo or log cabin.

And for igloos they don't even use wood or pitch.

AV1611VET · Apr 30, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
And for igloos they don't even use wood or pitch.

That's nice.

trophy33 · May 1, 2021

coffee4u said:
The fire has not yet happened!
God is going to destroy the earth and remake it into the new heavens and new earth.
Revelation 21
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

If you are a literalist with flood, why are you not a literalist with "this all will happen soon, in this generation"? There is obviously no allegory there, these are prosaic statements.

But its not the topic of this thread, we can discuss it in some other one...

Lion IRC · May 1, 2021

Speedwell said:
We don't know anything about the Ark--beyond that it was said to be built of some now-unknown kind of wood to dimensions which no longer can be accurately converted to those presently in use. And it had three decks and a window. There is not enough information for any kind of structural analysis.

But you said...
"More technical detail can be provided if you wish it..."

I wish it.

Lion IRC · May 1, 2021

Kylie said:
I've yet to see anything from you that justifies using the position "Noah's flood actually happened" as the default starting point.

We are way past.."actually happened".
We are now at the "how did it happen" part.
We are defining what Noah's Flood consisted of - global or local.

Myst33 says the flood was localised.
Im willing to agree that only 30% of the earth was flooded.
Guess which third I mean.

trophy33 · May 1, 2021

Bobber said:
I never said the children didn't physically perish in the flood of course they did BUT their spirits the REAL person went to Heaven.

You are not reading the flood story carefully:

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time."

"Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood."

Children had no extra pass to heaven. As evil as their parents.

trophy33 · May 1, 2021

Lion IRC said:
Mist33 says...

Its "myst" from the Greek word "mysterion"

Its not form the English word "mist".

trophy33 · May 1, 2021

Kylie said:
So we can measure all of these, and there is disagreement about those measurements?

I guess so. There are only some probability patterns.

Kylie said:
Pray tell, what have we measured about the simulation hypothesis?

It would relate to the quantum world, I think. Like the observation effect.

Kylie · May 1, 2021

Lion IRC said:
We are way past.."actually happened".

No we aren't.

Please show that at one time in the last few thousand years the entire surface of the earth was covered with water as described in the Bible.

Kylie · May 1, 2021

myst33 said:
I guess so. There are only some probability patterns.

It would relate to the quantum world, I think. Like the observation effect.

But when we measure the quantum stuff, we know it's going to be like that. There's no disagreement there, is it?

What you're suggesting is like saying I have two cars because now it is parked on the driveway and earlier it was parked in the garage. Since they were in two places, they must be two different cars.

trophy33 · May 1, 2021

Kylie said:
No we aren't.

Please show that at one time in the last few thousand years the entire surface of the earth was covered with water as described in the Bible.

It would depend on what the word "earth" means in the context of the ancient Mesopotamian story.

Some fertile land occupied by the first civilization between todays Iraq and Turkey?

trophy33 · May 1, 2021

Kylie said:
But when we measure the quantum stuff, we know it's going to be like that. There's no disagreement there, is it?

I am not sure, its some time I was into this

Kylie said:
What you're suggesting is like saying I have two cars because now it is parked on the driveway and earlier it was parked in the garage. Since they were in two places, they must be two different cars.

I think that in the double slit experiment, an electron goes through both slits in the same time. So its in two places in the same time. When nobody is watching. When an observer is watching, the electron chooses just one slit and behaves as expected.
Which is very similar to a simulation, like for example a computer game (in which parts of the world exist/render only when you need to see them).

Kylie · May 1, 2021

myst33 said:
It would depend on what the word "earth" means in the context of the ancient Mesopotamian story.

Some fertile land occupied by the first civilization between todays Iraq and Turkey?

Lion claims that water covered the entire face of the planet. I'm asking for evidence that this actually happened as described in the Bible.

Speedwell · May 1, 2021

AV1611VET said:
I agree, but I think you're missing the point.The real Ark ... Noah's Ark ... cannot be recreated as it was built in Noah's time.

It had no screws, no fasteners, no bolts, no nails: just wood and pitch.

Kinda like an igloo or log cabin.

So even attempting to build it would see it collapse under its own weight.

And the reason the original did not was because of a miracle?

Noachian Flood discussion - Bible skeptics vs Lion IRC and friends :)

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