Evil

jameshjr · Apr 10, 2021

Hello all,

i have been a christian for around a year now and I have been going to my church for a similar length of time. Until recently, i have kept myself to myself and not gotten involved.

however, i accepted that as a christian i have to get more involved in the church.

as a result of this i e-mailed one of our wardens and said that i would like to volunteer with anything that they needed help with.

So, recently i was asked to learn how to 'man' the sound desk at my church, which i said i was happy to do.

Today i went there to learn from someone whom knows how to do this.

Before my mentor arrived i was speaking with the wardens that were there, and one was explaining to the other why i was there and that i was going to help work the sound desk.

After this was explained, one warden said something along the lines of, "i don't know, seems pretty evil to me", and then walked away.

I assumed that she was talking about me, and this hurt my feelings and i have been focused on it ever since.

As i say this bothered me a lot, and i have looked up some christian articles about being evil and one thing that stuck out to me was the difference between evil and non-evil people being that, though they both sin, evil people do not feel 'bad' about it or correct their behaviour in the future.

i have applied this to myself and I would say that when i am aware of committing a sin, i do acknowledge it- though i am sure that i should do better when apologizing and making up to the people i have sinned against.

Additionally, i am new to the faith and i know that i am far from perfect and that i must commit sins that i am not aware of, which according to the previous definition would be evil.

If that were true, then i assume everyone is in the same boat and to some degree everyone is evil.

additionally, if only Christians have the Holy spirit, which is what convicts us of our sin and moulds our conscience, then would that make all non-christians evil?

After what happened, i needed to vent and air my thoughts. so i am wondering what you guys's opinion is on evil: what makes someone evil; who is evil; are we always going to be evil (only less so, each day); and if i am evil, and this is not something common to everyone (christian and non-christian alike) what should i do, and should that exclude me from the church and other christians?

Thanks for reading and your responses.

Sabertooth · Apr 10, 2021

@jameshjr, you say that you are new in the Lord. Have you attended a New Believers' class, yet? They are good for laying the groundwork for living the Christian life (including responding to such criticisms) and the teacher, there, might be able to help you sort through it, too.

jameshjr · Apr 10, 2021

Sabertooth said:
@jameshjr, you say that you are new in the Lord. Have you attended a New Believers' class, yet? They are good for laying the groundwork for living the Christian life (including responding to such criticisms) and the teacher, there, might be able to help you sort through it, too.

Hello sabertooth, thank you for responding. i have never heard of a new believers class. are they an online thing?

Sabertooth · Apr 10, 2021

jameshjr said:
are they an online thing?

Churches that have evangelical outreaches offer them to new believers. Ask your church leadership. If yours doesn't, there are others nearby that might.

These churches do in the USA, so the UK versions might, too.

(Links above are locators.)

jameshjr · Apr 10, 2021

Sabertooth said:
Churches that have evangelical outreaches offer them to new believers. Ask your church leadership. If yours doesn't, there are others nearby that might.

These churches do in the USA, so the UK versions might, too.

Vineyard,

Assembly of God,

Foursquare Church

(Links above are locators.)

Thank you, i will find out.

Andrewn · Apr 10, 2021

jameshjr said:
Before my mentor arrived i was speaking with the wardens that were there, and one was explaining to the other why i was there and that i was going to help work the sound desk.

After this was explained, one warden said something along the lines of, "i don't know, seems pretty evil to me", and then walked away.

I assumed that she was talking about me, and this hurt my feelings and i have been focused on it ever since.

She was probably not referring to you but rather describing the sound system as 'evil,' which I think it is

.

jameshjr said:
Hello sabertooth, thank you for responding. i have never heard of a new believers class. are they an online thing?

If you attend an Anglican church they may have Alpha classes.

jameshjr said:
additionally, if only Christians have the Holy spirit, which is what convicts us of our sin and moulds our conscience, then would that make all non-christians evil?

I wouldn't say all non-Christians are evil.

Ro 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

AubreyM · Apr 10, 2021

Hey hope you feel better after getting off that off your chest James. May the grace, and peace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.

There is a scripture somewhere in Mark 7, I believe it talks about how how foods that we eat go to our stomach and do not defile us but the thoughts of our hearts that evil can comes out of our mouths and creeps into our minds is what defiles us.

You can get a better understanding of our hearts as humans and more of reason to look towards Jesus Christ and his wisdom we do freely have to drink and eat from in the Bible.

Take care.

Bobber · Apr 10, 2021

jameshjr said:
Hello all,

i have been a christian for around a year now and I have been going to my church for a similar length of time. Until recently, i have kept myself to myself and not gotten involved.

however, i accepted that as a christian i have to get more involved in the church.

as a result of this i e-mailed one of our wardens and said that i would like to volunteer with anything that they needed help with.

So, recently i was asked to learn how to 'man' the sound desk at my church, which i said i was happy to do.

Today i went there to learn from someone whom knows how to do this.

Before my mentor arrived i was speaking with the wardens that were there, and one was explaining to the other why i was there and that i was going to help work the sound desk.

After this was explained, one warden said something along the lines of, "i don't know, seems pretty evil to me", and then walked away.

I assumed that she was talking about me, and this hurt my feelings and i have been focused on it ever since.

You say she was walking away while saying it I would have raised my voice and called her back saying something like, "Excuse me dear sister. What do you mean by saying that?"

That for sure is a statement you have every right to have explained and it's not a matter that it's an issue that hurts your feelings but rather ....UM why would you say that? I think you have a right to know.

One thing though. Are you sure she actually said that I mean you know you heard that actual word? Secondly are you sure you actually heard it in proper context. Is it possible even for a split second your attention got diverted and the two might have started talking about the politics of the day for that'd be a context of how people discuss politicians or what's in the news....this one is evil or that action is?? I just seems like too much of a brash word to use about training another. Not saying that's what happened but possible?

If it were me even though as you say a certain amount of time has gone by I'd still approach that person. I'd be friendly and ask them if they wouldn't mind if you asked them something. They for sure will probably say Sure then tell them about that day. If they say their sorry but don't ever remember saying something like that then give them the benefit of the doubt (for that's what love does) and then you apologize saying you're sorry maybe it's possible that I heard something wrong.

Just say when you heard that statement you thought that's different but that you never could get over the curiosity of why it was said, if it was said. Fact is maybe you didn't hear something wrong BUT you're willing to let that person off the hook and move on. At least you would have addressed the issue and brought yourself some peace.

NomNomPizza · Apr 10, 2021

jameshjr said:
Hello all,

i have been a christian for around a year now and I have been going to my church for a similar length of time. Until recently, i have kept myself to myself and not gotten involved.

however, i accepted that as a christian i have to get more involved in the church.

as a result of this i e-mailed one of our wardens and said that i would like to volunteer with anything that they needed help with.

So, recently i was asked to learn how to 'man' the sound desk at my church, which i said i was happy to do.

Today i went there to learn from someone whom knows how to do this.

Before my mentor arrived i was speaking with the wardens that were there, and one was explaining to the other why i was there and that i was going to help work the sound desk.

After this was explained, one warden said something along the lines of, "i don't know, seems pretty evil to me", and then walked away.

I assumed that she was talking about me, and this hurt my feelings and i have been focused on it ever since.

As i say this bothered me a lot, and i have looked up some christian articles about being evil and one thing that stuck out to me was the difference between evil and non-evil people being that, though they both sin, evil people do not feel 'bad' about it or correct their behaviour in the future.

i have applied this to myself and I would say that when i am aware of committing a sin, i do acknowledge it- though i am sure that i should do better when apologizing and making up to the people i have sinned against.

Additionally, i am new to the faith and i know that i am far from perfect and that i must commit sins that i am not aware of, which according to the previous definition would be evil.

If that were true, then i assume everyone is in the same boat and to some degree everyone is evil.

additionally, if only Christians have the Holy spirit, which is what convicts us of our sin and moulds our conscience, then would that make all non-christians evil?

After what happened, i needed to vent and air my thoughts. so i am wondering what you guys's opinion is on evil: what makes someone evil; who is evil; are we always going to be evil (only less so, each day); and if i am evil, and this is not something common to everyone (christian and non-christian alike) what should i do, and should that exclude me from the church and other christians?

Thanks for reading and your responses.

God calls us all evil so you should not be surprised , Don't think much of it she was probably speaking about something else

jameshjr · Apr 10, 2021

Andrewn said:
She was probably not referring to you but rather describing the sound system as 'evil,' which I think it is .

If you attend an Anglican church they may have Alpha classes.

I wouldn't say all non-Christians are evil.

Ro 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

Hello Andrewn, thank you for the message, also thank you for the positive view on her comment, it has made me feel better, and now that i am away from the situation, it seems like that could be the case.

I will ask one of wardens about the alpha/ new believers class, or if they know of anything similar.

I'm not sure i understand what the passage means when it says: are a law unto themselves? is that a good thing? what do you think it means?

jameshjr · Apr 10, 2021

AubreyM said:
Hey hope you feel better after getting off that off your chest James. May the grace, and peace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.

There is a scripture somewhere in Mark 7, I believe it talks about how how foods that we eat go to our stomach and do not defile us but the thoughts of our hearts that evil can comes out of our mouths and creeps into our minds is what defiles us.

You can get a better understanding of our hearts as humans and more of reason to look towards Jesus Christ and his wisdom we do freely have to drink and eat from in the Bible.

Take care.

Hello AubreyM, thanks for the message and thank you for the blessings.

Yes, i know the passage you are referring to. So then we are inherently sinful, and it is only our actions which are evil (if not controlled properly).

I agree with your final point, the answer is always in the bible, but i was upset and needed some people to talk to.

thanks agin.

jameshjr · Apr 10, 2021

Bobber said:
You say she was walking away while saying it I would have raised my voice and called her back saying something like, "Excuse me dear sister. What do you mean by saying that?"

That for sure is a statement you have every right to have explained and it's not a matter that it's an issue that hurts your feelings but rather ....UM why would you say that? I think you have a right to know.

One thing though. Are you sure she actually said that I mean you know you heard that actual word? Secondly are you sure you actually heard it in proper context. Is it possible even for a split second your attention got diverted and the two might have started talking about the politics of the day for that'd be a context of how people discuss politicians or what's in the news....this one is evil or that action is?? I just seems like too much of a brash word to use about training another. Not saying that's what happened but possible?

If it were me even though as you say a certain amount of time has gone by I'd still approach that person. I'd be friendly and ask them if they wouldn't mind if you asked them something. They for sure will probably say Sure then tell them about that day. If they say their sorry but don't ever remember saying something like that then give them the benefit of the doubt (for that's what love does) and then you apologize saying you're sorry maybe it's possible that I heard something wrong.

Just say when you heard that statement you thought that's different but that you never could get over the curiosity of why it was said, if it was said. Fact is maybe you didn't hear something wrong BUT you're willing to let that person off the hook and move on. At least you would have addressed the issue and brought yourself some peace.

Hello Bobber, thank you for your message. I am not courageous enough to do that (even though it would have been helpful).

i am almost sure that they were the words she used. But after cooling down and reading AndrewN's post, she could well have been referring to the sound system itself and there was no break in the conversation.

I will see her in church tomorrow morning and will see if i can pluck up the courage to speak with her about it. thank you for the advice.

jameshjr · Apr 10, 2021

NomNomPizza said:
God calls us all evil so you should not be surprised , Don't think much of it she was probably speaking about something else

Hello NomNomPizza, Thank you for the message. after reading your message i found this quote:

For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. (Mark 7:21-7:23).

Therefore i think, before we turn to Christ we are ruled by our own hearts (so we are evil) and it is only by accepting Jesus as Lord that we can begin to control our actions and follow Jesus's teachings, and therefore be less evil, this to me is encouraging thought.

Andrewn · Apr 10, 2021

jameshjr said:
if only Christians have the Holy spirit, which is what convicts us of our sin and moulds our conscience, then would that make all non-christians evil?

Andrewn said:
Ro 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

jameshjr said:
I'm not sure i understand what the passage means when it says: are a law unto themselves? is that a good thing? what do you think it means?

The question was whether all non-Christians are evil. In this verse, St Paul is talking about people who do not believe in the Bible, he calls them Gentiles. They have a sort of a natural law in their conscience and if they choose to follow that natural law then they will not become evil. This does not mean that non-Christians are perfect or sinless but can certainly live virtuous lives.

How Does John Calvin Explain the Virtuous Non-Christian?

jameshjr · Apr 11, 2021

Andrewn said:
The question was whether all non-Christians are evil. In this verse, St Paul is talking about people who do not believe in the Bible, he calls them Gentiles. They have a sort of a natural law in their conscience and if they choose to follow that natural law then they will not become evil. This does not mean that non-Christians are perfect or sinless but can certainly live virtuous lives.

How Does John Calvin Explain the Virtuous Non-Christian?

I see your point. The phrase , “he is a law unto himself” is one that I know but have always took it to mean that, he (the person being spoken about ) does as he wishes.

I liked the article which you linked in your message.

I think the idea of god restraining people seems true, as I do not have a high opinion of mankind and find it hard to believe that anyone can be good without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour.

I also agree that we all have a conscience and that God has written his law on each mans heart, however, I believe (like the article) that people only follow it for selfish reasons.

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