KarateCowboy

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I read that whole OP but didn't find one example of a Canadian system and how it is racist, regardless of the actors implementing said system. Is there any actual Canadian system that is racist? Or is it just another case of oikophobic condemnation?
 
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Norbert L

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You’re judging those outside the church. Paul states to judge those inside the church not those outside the church. This can be found in first Corinthians 5:12.
You are leaving me with the impression that you believe Christians should be silenced and censored from expressing their views on general politics in a general politics forum run by Christians by using a verse out of it's intended context.

When I or anyone else for that matter, read the letter to the Romans where Paul spends a lot of time making statements that judge those outside the church. Were we to go by your evaluation of what Paul meant when he wrote that verse, it becomes necessary to see Paul as being hypocritical when he wrote to the Corinthians.

Would you like to argue for the case that it is unchristian for Christians to have a General Politics sub-forum based on first Corinthians 5:12 in the appropriate forum? Or have you already been extensively involved with the larger meaning and issue surrounding our Lord's statement (Do not judge, and you will not be judged) in a proper forum on this site?
 
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Norbert L

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Its only becuz of God that we don’t do the same. Crucifixion normally took two weeks to kill a person. It’s only lately that we try so hard to be humane. But we rarely use capital punishment. Which would be justice for the high crimes that are committed. Maybe they were a very just people depending on what was done. By the time the Jesuits came we were hated and a threat as you can see the result. An injustice that most would forget. Again whites- the great Satan.
I find one of the big problems in dealing with the common history is lumping people into group identities. The idea that every individual from the same background and national origin obviously share and are onboard with the same political agenda, is lacking knowledge about events in the past.

History shows a rather different dynamic that still happens today. Historically different native nations didn't see eye to eye with each other either. Not only did natives war with each other and take land from each other before the different European nations entered the continent. Natives also took sides with different European powers when it suited their interests too. Take for instance 1649 War between the Hurons and the Iroquois.

Considering the assumption that white people alone must have done this out of greed, avoids addressing the fact that greed is found in all human beings no matter what color of skin they have!
Even today there are natives that believe it would help their community when it comes to pipelines for instance.

"First Nations peoples who support the pipeline — and there are many — agree that the situation is dire, but we see more than a few reasons for optimism in the midst of the anxiety." We are First Nations that support pipelines, when pipelines support First Nations | Financial Post

To assert that it is only a white man's greed issue only reveals a lack of understanding. This is not as black and white as some people believe it to be.
 
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Unqualified

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You can’t justify what we did. You sir like to argue. Paul pointed out the sin of the people in an attempt to convict some of sin. He said. And such were some of you. How can you need a savior without thinking of how grave your sins are.
 
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Ashley Amos

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You are leaving me with the impression that you believe Christians should be silenced and censored from expressing their views on general politics in a general politics forum run by Christians by using a verse out of it's intended context.
The scripture clearly states that we are not to judge those who are outside the church. 1 Corinthians 5:13 states God will judge them. If you feel you are God, then go ahead and judge them.

When I or anyone else for that matter, read the letter to the Romans where Paul spends a lot of time making statements that judge those outside the church. Were we to go by your evaluation of what Paul meant when he wrote that verse, it becomes necessary to see Paul as being hypocritical when he wrote to the Corinthians.

Please provide scripture chapter and verse where Paul states to judge those outside the church.

Would you like to argue for the case that it is unchristian for Christians to have a General Politics sub-forum based on first Corinthians 5:12 in the appropriate forum? Or have you already been extensively involved with the larger meaning and issue surrounding our Lord's statement (Do not judge, and you will not be judged) in a proper forum on this site?

'Judge not, lest you be judged' is not referring to judging people. It is regarding not judging the word of God. Rather, we should pardon the word, meaning accept it even if we don't agree with it. 'Having a log in your own eye' means that you are judging the word. Once you stop judging the word, you will have the correct understanding of it and then you can help your brother with his misunderstanding.
 
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Ashley Amos

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I find one of the big problems in dealing with the common history is lumping people into group identities. The idea that every individual from the same background and national origin obviously share and are onboard with the same political agenda, is lacking knowledge about events in the past.

No, I am not stating that all white people are wrong since there were many white people who were satisfied with their own country and wanted nothing to do with taking land from the native people. The early settlers and pioneers who were white Europeans, came to this land under the pretense of spreading the word of God while transgressing it by stealing and coveting from their neighbor. My post is addressing Christians who believe that these actions were right. Those who share this sentiment will also share in the punishment that awaits.

History shows a rather different dynamic that still happens today. Historically different native nations didn't see eye to eye with each other either. Not only did natives war with each other and take land from each other before the different European nations entered the continent. Natives also took sides with different European powers when it suited their interests too. Take for instance 1649 War between the Hurons and the Iroquois.

The native people are outside the church. They did not know the teachings of Jesus and so they cannot be judged by it. The settlers did know Jesus' standards and they can be held accountable to his teachings.

Considering the assumption that white people alone must have done this out of greed, avoids addressing the fact that greed is found in all human beings no matter what color of skin they have!
Other skin colors at the time did not know Jesus or the word of God. If they did, they can be judged also. We know for sure that in this case, the native people did not know the word of God or the teachings of Jesus. Even if the whole world did sin, doesn't mean the white Christian people should follow them in their sin, does it? Jesus said that his followers are the light of the world meaning the world should follow their lead, not the other way around.

To assert that it is only a white man's greed issue only reveals a lack of understanding. This is not as black and white as some people believe it to be.

I am stating the white settlers, explorers and pioneers were greedy and covetous - not the white race as a whole. You are putting words in my mouth.
 
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Norbert L

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The early settlers and pioneers who were white Europeans, came to this land under the pretense of spreading the word of God while transgressing it by stealing and coveting from their neighbor. My post is addressing Christians who believe that these actions were right. Those who share this sentiment will also share in the punishment that awaits.
You should be aware how your comment reads and comes across as. That immigrants come here under pretense due to their ancestry, but only the white Christian ones whose actual motives were to steal because they were guilty coveting? That will go over well. In my view that's seems rather pretentious and racist.
 
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Ashley Amos

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You should be aware how your comment reads and comes across as. That immigrants come here under pretense due to their ancestry, but only the white Christian ones whose actual motives were to steal because they were guilty coveting? That will go over well. In my view that's seems rather pretentious and racist.
What are you warning me for I didn’t write this.
 
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JDD_III

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I think you are overplaying a bit the 1Cor5:13 passage. The context is clearly about tolerating sin within the church but not associating with those outside the church for their sin (thus not evangelising). You cannot take the word "judge" there and make that to say that Christians cannot have a view of the actions and sin of those outside of the church. How then do you reconcile Romans 1? Should Christians never be a voice of what is right and good outside of the church? Is that "judging"?

Regardless, to be frank your post reads more like you yourself have a problem with racism and your own thoughts towards indigenous people that you are projecting onto entire swathes of others. You want to chastise the pioneers as their descendants being responsible for colonizing yet you then do not acknowledge the vast majority of the history of natives who in times past conquered tribe after tribe and took land. In other words, all humans are sinful and fall short of the glory of God.

The danger here is the church in the west gets caught up in the reprehensible doctrine of critical race theory which is a dangerous mix of post-modernism and a form of neo-Marxism which not only will lead to terrible times if it is embraced, but is a social justice Christians are not called to focus on. I guarantee you if we go down the path of intersectionality, victimhood and social justice we will be ushering in the new wave of Christian persecution the likes of the west has never seen before.
 
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Ashley Amos

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I think you are overplaying a bit the 1Cor5:13 passage. The context is clearly about tolerating sin within the church but not associating with those outside the c1 hurch for their sin (thus not evangelising). You cannot take the word "judge" there and make that to say that Christians cannot have a view of the actions and sin of those outside of the church.

You can have a view of pagan cultures only make sure you are not like them or do as they do. But we must not judge them that they do not follow the teachings of Jesus, since they do not know his teachings to begin with.

Christians, on the other hand, can be judged as per their conduct, since they know his teachings but are choosing to disobey.

How then do you reconcile Romans 1? Should Christians never be a voice of what is right and good outside of the church? Is that "judging"?

Romans 1 is speaking the gospel of Jesus to everyone both Jew and Gentile, but is not peaking about judging their conduct.

We must assess their behavior to make sure we not do as they do. This is exactly what you are trying to say. You are stating that because the native people (before knowing Jesus) sinned, that it makes it alright that the European settlers did the same.

Romans 1:5-7, 16, 17 - Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. 6 And you also are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.

7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.

Paul is clearly speaking to Gentiles who have heard the gospel and accpeted it as the truth. But to those who hear the gospel and reject it, he writes Romans 1:18-32

Romans 1:18 - The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Paul is stating that rejection of the gospel is wrong and those who do so will have no excuse since evidence of God is everywhere, even in creation.

All men must repent if they do not follow the gospel of Jesus and will be judged by God.

1 Corinthians 5:13 - God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

But this does not in any way, shape or form claim we can judge them. There is no contradiction here at all. It is the European settlers who suppressed the truth and who Romans 1 is speaking of.

Romans 1:28-31 - Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.

And you approve of the european settlers who did such things.

Romans 1:32 - Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Should Christians never be a voice of what is right and good outside of the church? Is that "judging"?

Yes, they should preach the truth but not use the truth to subdue people and then break God's law and steal their land. That is evil and it is exactly what the european settlers did.

Regardless, to be frank your post reads more like you yourself have a problem with racism

We should all have a problem with racism, what are you talking about?

and your own thoughts towards indigenous people that you are projecting onto entire swathes of others. You want to chastise the pioneers as their descendants being responsible for colonizing yet you then do not acknowledge the vast majority of the history of natives who in times past conquered tribe after tribe and took land.

As I have already stated, the native people did not know the teachings of Jesus. That was no excuse for the Christian settlers to do likewise, as they knew better since they understood the teachings of Jesus.

In other words, all humans are sinful and fall short of the glory of God.

Wrong. The european settler knew stealing as wrong yet did it anyways.

Luke 12:47 - The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 6:4-8 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

The danger here is the church in the west gets caught up in the reprehensible doctrine of critical race

I am not talking of race but rather believers and unbelievers. Any believer who deliberately twists the word of God and sins is committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, an unpardonable sin, nothing to do with race. There were many white settlers who stayed in there own country and had nothing to do with this covetous land grab (nothing to do with race).

theory which is a dangerous mix of post-modernism and a form of neo-Marxism which not only will lead to terrible times if it is embraced, but is a social justice Christians are not called to focus on. I guarantee you if we go down the path of intersectionality, victimhood and social justice we will be ushering in the new wave of Christian persecution the likes of the west has never seen before.

Rubbish. The descendants of the white settlers must repent by condemning their forefathers actions and the native man must forgive, based on the teachings of Jesus.

Romans 1 is speaking of those who know the righteousness of God (european settlers) and have given themselves over to every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, etc.

It is not referring to unbelievers (natives) who never even heard of the gospel in order to reject it.
 
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