Paul did not teach Perpetual Belief Alone-ism for salvation.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 23, 2021

MMXX said:
It was a rhetorical question, Jason. I already figured the answer was no. I sure hope people don't read all that love stuff in the Bible and get mislead by it. Christians need to be as uptight as possible. Sorry for the sarcasm.

God told Adam that he would die the day he ate of the wrong tree (See: Genesis 2:17).
Did Adam die physically that day or did he die spiritually?
Adam only committed one sin.
Now, I can preach a feel good message and say that Adam was saved while he disobeyed God, but that would not be the truth.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 23, 2021

MMXX said:
It was a rhetorical question, Jason. I already figured the answer was no. I sure hope people don't read all that love stuff in the Bible and get mislead by it. Christians need to be as uptight as possible and the good news needs to be delivered with a sledgehammer. Sorry for the sarcasm.

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

Try to remember that Jesus loves you. And that it's okay to experience a little peace and joy once in a while.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 23, 2021

MMXX said:
Try to remember that Jesus loves you. And that it's okay to experience a little peace and joy once in a while.

God so loved the world.... but that does not mean the entire world is saved.
Try to remember that, my friend.

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

Peace and Hope

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. - Romans 5

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
God so loved the world.... but that does not mean the entire world is saved.
Try to remember that, my friend.

But the Christians you spend gobs of time arguing with here are.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 23, 2021

MMXX said:
Peace and Hope

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Verse 2 says we have been justified through faith. This is referring to when we first accepted Christ. Verses 6-8 is not in reference to our continued walk with Christ but it is in reference to the Provisional Atonement. That Christ died for us in the past while we were yet sinners so as to provide salvation for us today if we accept His gift and we remain faithful to that gift. Jesus is the gift. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. We access God's grace through faith. But faith does not remain as believing in Jesus alone as our Savior only. Faith manifests itself to do good works and to live holy lives by the power of God because God lives in us.

You said:
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. - Romans 5

Right, this is talking about the first aspect of salvation (God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior and the gospel), and not the second aspect of salvation (Sanctification). We have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word. Paul says in Philippians 2:12-13 says that we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and it says God works in us to do of his good will and pleasure. This means we have to cooperate with the good work God wants to do through us. This is a part of salvation. Galatians 6:8-9 also teaches the same truth. If we sow to the flesh (sin) we will reap corruption, but if we sow to the Spirit, we will reap life everlasting. There is no option that says we can sow to the flesh (sin) and yet also reap life everlasting along with corruption. This sowing to the Spirit is “well doing” (good works) according to verse 9.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 23, 2021

At the Judgment: Matthew 13:41-42 says that the Son of man (JESUS) will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend and those who do iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire).

[41] “The Son of man shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of
his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;
[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42).

In other words, a believer can be in HIS KINGDOM now, and later be cast out into the lake of fire at the judgment on account of their doing iniquity (i.e. justifying sin).

For what if one is wrong, and this interpretation is true? What if indeed that Jesus will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM those believers who justify sin (like saying Jesus' words do not apply in Matthew 5:28-30, etc.) and they make lite of sin, etc. and they end up being cast into the lake of fire? Would that not change your life and how you read the Scriptures, and how you live for the Lord? But what if I am wrong? Well, then we are all saved by God's grace by a belief in Jesus as the savior and a belief in the gospel, right?

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

Yeah but we don't have to be all uptight with our brothers and sisters in Christ while we're at it do we?

BTW, what do you think Paul meant when he said the congregation greeted Titus with fear and trembling? Was Titus a scary dude?

Bible Highlighter · Feb 23, 2021

MMXX said:
Yeah but we don't have to be all uptight with our brothers and sisters in Christ while we're at it do we?

BTW, what do you think Paul meant when he said the congregation greeted Titus with fear and trembling? Was Titus a scary dude?

If I warned you that a bridge was out up ahead on a foggy day, and you said that I was not being loving, it would not really change the reality of the danger up ahead if you did not believe me. You want only a comforting message and that does not really help anyone - IMO (Especially when the Bible warns against how sin can condemn our souls if we don't repent).

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
At the Judgment: Matthew 13:41-42 says that the Son of man (JESUS) will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend and those who do iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire).

[41] “The Son of man shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of
his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;
[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42).

In other words, a believer can be in HIS KINGDOM now, and later be cast out into the lake of fire at the judgment on account of their doing iniquity (i.e. justifying sin).

For what if one is wrong, and this interpretation is true? What if indeed that Jesus will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM those believers who justify sin (like saying Jesus' words do not apply in Matthew 5:28-30, etc.) and they make lite of sin, etc. and they end up being cast into the lake of fire? Would that not change your life and how you read the Scriptures, and how you live for the Lord? But what if I am wrong? Well, then we are all saved by God's grace by a belief in Jesus as the savior and a belief in the gospel, right?

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
At the Judgment: Matthew 13:41-42 says that the Son of man (JESUS) will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend and those who do iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire).

[41] “The Son of man shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of
his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;
[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42).

In other words, a believer can be in HIS KINGDOM now, and later be cast out into the lake of fire at the judgment on account of their doing iniquity (i.e. justifying sin).

For what if one is wrong, and this interpretation is true? What if indeed that Jesus will send forth his angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM those believers who justify sin (like saying Jesus' words do not apply in Matthew 5:28-30, etc.) and they make lite of sin, etc. and they end up being cast into the lake of fire? Would that not change your life and how you read the Scriptures, and how you live for the Lord? But what if I am wrong? Well, then we are all saved by God's grace by a belief in Jesus as the savior and a belief in the gospel, right?

I think you need to calm down some. Seriously.

Grace ambassador · Feb 23, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
So what is the point of loving the Lord and others if it really does not change one's eternal destiny?

Precious friend, I personally would rather be Motivated to serve God
"out of LOVE," Because The "Finished" Work Of The Cross Guarantees
What "HE Has Done {Purchased BY HIS "Pure" BLOOD}, for me, knowing
That HE HIMSELF Secured HIS Promise To me = my "eternal destiny."

The Only Other option is to serve HIM "out of fear" of "Never achieving
Enough of my failing, inadequate works" of "keeping ALL of HIS
Commandments," which IF a man do [PERFECTLY!], THEN shall he
live in THEM!:

Gal 3:21 KJB!:
"Is the law then against the Promises of God? God forbid: for IF there
had been a law given which Could have given life, verily righteousness
Should have been by the law."

Now the Important Question: Exactly How is "failing, Imperfect works"
EQUATED to = Purchased BY The "Pure" BLOOD Of JESUS CHRIST!?

So Then, righteousness Must Be By "Grace through faith...NOT of works...
NOT of ourSELVES" As Plainly/Clearly taught in Eph 2:8-9 KJB! Which is
God's OPERATION! {Col 2:12; 1 Cor 12:13 KJB!)

Therefore, "loving The LORD and our neighbor" {which Fulfills All the law
Gal 5:14; Rom 13:8-10 KJB!}, has, Biblically, NOTHING to do with "destiny," but
Everything to do with "rewards" Once we "arrive at our destiny!" Amen?:
ie:

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every
man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry,
ye are God's building. According to the GRACE of God Which is
Given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation,
and another buildeth Thereon. But let every man take heed how
he buildeth Thereupon.

For other foundation can no man lay than That Is laid, Which is
JESUS CHRIST! Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold,
silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work
shall be made manifest: for The {Judgment?} Day Shall Declare
it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try
every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built Thereupon, he shall
receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer
loss: but he himself SHALL BE SAVED {righteous?}; yet so as by fire!"
(1 Cor 3:8-15 KJB!) Amen?

"Taking Heed" Question: What "sort of works" are we "building" On
The Foundation Of our Saviour, JESUS CHRIST, Who Graciously
Gave us HIS FREE Gift Of Eternal Life?

"To The Praise Of The Glory Of HIS {Amazing} GRACE!"

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
If I warned you that a bridge was out up ahead on a foggy day, and you said that I was not being loving, it would not really change the reality of the danger up ahead if you did not believe me. You want only a comforting message and that does not really help anyone - IMO (Especially when the Bible warns against how sin can condemn our souls if we don't repent).

Jason, I'm saved. So is just about everyone you're trying to save here. You should probably spend more time out street evangelizing, than preaching to the choir.

setst777 · Feb 23, 2021

Clare73 said:
We have no just claim against God. He owes us nothing more than justice, which he has given us.

God owes us nothing; however, God in His grace and love, came down from heaven to pay the penalty of sin for all...

Isaiah 53:6 (WEB) 6 All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

So God is offering eternal life to whosoever will believe in His Son at the hearing of the Gospel without prejudice, discrimination, favoritism or partiality.

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Does God invite only some to the Wedding Feast (Matthew 22:1-14), or does God send out His servants to gather all that would come?

Clare73 said:
He is free to give mercy to whom he pleases and chooses

Clare73 said:
(Ro 9:14-18), and no one can say to him "What have you done?" (Ro 9:20)
He owes us nothing more.

God does not owe us anything; yet, because of His great love for mankind, He holds out the invitation of salvation to all; so that, whosoever believes in Lord Jesus may have eternal life.

Romans 11:32 (WEB)
For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

Titus 2:11 (WEB) 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men

1 Timothy 2:6 (WEB) 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony in its own times

Hebrews 2:9 (WEB) 9 But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.

Clare73 said:
He does not owe anyone mercy. Justice does not require him to give anyone mercy, only to give them what they are due; and as his enemies, with natures which do not want to be governed by him, but to govern themselves, they are due/owed condemnation.
And that is what he does (Ro 5:18).

You are intent at limiting God's love and grace, and attempting to prove that God can show favoritism and partiality, when Scripture teaches us that God shows no partiality toward persons, but rather judges all persons on how they respond to His grace.

All through the NT God makes plain to understand that He desires to have mercy on all - to whosoever will believe in His Son, listening to and following Him.

God is not required to have mercy on anyone, however, God's holy Word makes plain that God would be unjust to offer salvation for only those God chooses to give faith to to be saved, and to hell with the rest of mankind. That would mean God shows partiality and favoritism in His gracious offer of salvation.

Thankfully we have a righteous God who shows no favoritism or bias. A loving God who has suffered and died for the entire world, so that those believing in Lord Jesus may be granted the free gift of God's grace.

Romans 11:32 (WEB)
For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

Titus 2:11 (WEB) 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men

Isaiah 53:6 (WEB) 6 All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 John 2:2 (WEB) 2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

John 1:29 (WEB) 29 The next day, he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 4:42 (WEB) 42 They said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of your speaking; for we have heard for ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”

2 Corinthians 5:19 (WEB)
19 … God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 (WEB) 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony in its own times

1 Timothy 4:10 (WEB) 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Hebrews 2:9 (WEB) 9 But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.

Although God has paid the ransom for all people, bringing salvation to the whole world, only those who believe after hearing the Gospel appropriate that ransom to themselves.

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Blessings

Ceallaigh · Feb 23, 2021

BTW prodigal means spending money wastefully on extravagance.

Also a Christian can be so spiritual, they view spending less than three hours a day in their prayer closet, as falling away.

Grace ambassador · Feb 23, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
For Cornelius was a devout man, and who feared God with all his house who gave alms to the people, and who prayed to God always

Precious friend, if you would, please supply your Excellent commentary on:

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him. {Acs 10 : 34-35 KJB!}

Should be enlightening, I believe...thanks.

setst777 · Feb 23, 2021

Dan1988 said:
It all depends on what you want to make the scriptures to say, since there are countless ways to interpret scripture. This is why we have so many Christian denominations, all claiming to poses the correct interpretation while they all oppose each other.

I hope you're not one of those who believes that everyone else is wrong and I'm right. It's quite sad to see all the mud slinging in the Church, everyone has a different view but they all insist they are right and everyone else is wrong.

We can make the Bible support Arminians and Calvinists, it all depends on which prism we view it from. I see you and everyone else rejects Gods Word as it is written, you must add your private interpretation to it and push your view as the only valid one.

Don't worry I have nothing personal against you as everyone else does the same thing. This is why the Church is divided into thousands of militantly opposed denominations, all pushing their view as the only right one.

Christians invest their lives in the denomination, so the last thing they want to hear is someone challenge their view or try to prove them wrong or heretical. When we go door knocking we get the same response from 99% of Christians. They say things like "I was born a Catholic and I will die a Catholic". We really can't convince anyone to open their mind to consider other views, so we just have to agree to disagree.

I believe the Holy Scriptures completely explain all things related to faith and salvation, therefore, we need not presume anything onto the text of Scripture. Rather, we are to search God's Word to find how God explains all things to us by means of His Holy Prophets and Apostles.

Yet, we find even Christian leaders taking Scriptures out their context that does not explain the how, why, when, where, and for whom, and then these leaders force their own opinions onto the text in flowery language that seems logical, but it really deceptive.

If such Christian leaders really trusted God's Word, they would find the details of any doctrinal terms from the Scriptures themselves.

Take God at His Word when He states that His Word is made plain to understand, to give you, the reader, the full riches of complete understanding - once for all entrusted to the saints.

But, you must read in context, and read each Epistle as a letter - from beginning to end - with an open unbiased mind as it was meant to be read.

Read with an open unbiased mind, believing God when He teaches us that His Word is plain to understand. If you do this, you will be able to understand God's fully revealed Gospel Word, just as God stated that you can. Take God at His Word.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV)
25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the

revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
26 but now revealed and made known
through the prophetic writings
by the command of the eternal God,

so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

2 Corinthians 1:13 (NIV)
13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

Ephesians 3:4-5 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

Ephesians 3:8-9 (NIV) 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 2:2-3 (NIV) 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Jude 3-4 (WEB) 3 Beloved, while I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I was constrained to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into indecency, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Blessings

Clare73 · Feb 23, 2021

setst777 said:
God owes us nothing; however, God in His grace and love, came down from heaven to pay the penalty of sin for all...
Isaiah 53:6 (WEB) 6 All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
So God is offering eternal life to whosoever will believe in His Son at the hearing of the Gospel without prejudice, discrimination, favoritism or partiality.

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Does God invite only some to the Wedding Feast (Matthew 22:1-14), or does God send out His servants to gather all that would come?

The call goes out to all, but not all come.

God does not owe us anything; yet, because of His great love for mankind, He holds out the invitation of salvation to all; so that, whosoever believes in Lord Jesus may have eternal life.

Agreed.

Romans 11:32

Click to expand...

(WEB)
For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

Titus 2:11 (WEB) 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men

1 Timothy 2:6 (WEB) 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony in its own times

Hebrews 2:9 (WEB) 9 But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.

Agreed.

You are intent at limiting God's love and grace, and attempting to prove that God can show favoritism and partiality, when Scripture teaches us that God shows no partiality toward persons, but rather judges all persons on how they respond to His grace.

It's not about judgment, it's about mercy.

All through the NT God makes plain to understand that He desires to have mercy on all - to whosoever will believe in His Son, listening to and following Him.

Actually, what both the OT and the NT teach is that God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." (Ex 33:19; Ro 9:18).

God is not required to have mercy on anyone, however, God's holy Word makes plain that God would be unjust to offer salvation for only those God chooses to give faith to to be saved, and to hell with the rest of mankind. That would mean
God shows partiality and favoritism in His gracious offer of salvation.

God owes no one salvation. He is justly free to offer it to whom and only to whom he chooses to do so,
as God revealed to Moses (Ex 33:19), and
told Moses regarding Pharaoh before Moses ever went back to Egypt (Ex 4:21), and
as Paul teaches in Ro 9:18, and
and also teaches in Ro 11:25, regarding God choosing to blind and harden most of Israel, but not all, having mercy on a remnant only and
not blinding them to the gospel as he does the rest (Ro 11:25).

Thankfully we have a righteous God who shows no favoritism or bias.

Righteousness is governed by justice.
Mercy is governed by God's pleasure and will (Eph 1:5).

A loving God who has suffered and died for the entire world, so that those believing in Lord Jesus may be granted the free gift of God's grace.

Romans 11:32 (WEB)
For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

Titus 2:11 (WEB) 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men

Isaiah 53:6 (WEB) 6 All we like sheep have gone astray. Everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 John 2:2 (WEB) 2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

John 1:29 (WEB) 29 The next day, he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 4:42 (WEB) 42 They said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of your speaking; for we have heard for ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”

2 Corinthians 5:19 (WEB)
19 … God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:6 (WEB) 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony in its own times

1 Timothy 4:10 (WEB) 10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Hebrews 2:9 (WEB) 9 But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.

Although God has paid the ransom for all people, bringing salvation to the whole world, only those who believe after hearing the Gospel appropriate that ransom to themselves.

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Agreed.

setst777 · Feb 23, 2021

Clare73 said:
It's not about judgment, it's about mercy.Actually, what both the OT and the NT teach is that God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." (Ex 33:19; Ro 9:18).

Does God explain to us why he hardens some and not others? Yes he does.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (NIV)
10 They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Hosea 4:6 (WEB)
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me.

Romans 1:22-26 (WEB) 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and traded the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, four-footed animals, and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves; 25 who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. … 28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting

If God has to supernaturally harden someone’s heart so they can no longer receive His grace, that means that they might have repented if God had not supernaturally intervened in punishment. Therefore, God's grace has its limits on those who deliberately reject His grace.

Regarding salvation, does God explain to us in the Gospel who he desires to have mercy on? I quoted the Scriptures and you agreed.

Clare73 said:
God owes no one salvation. He is justly free to offer it to whom and only to whom he chooses to do so, as God revealed to Moses (Ex 33:19), and
told Moses regarding Pharoah before Moses ever went back to Egypt (Ex 4:21), and
as Paul teaches in Ro 9:18.
Righteousness is governed by justice.
Mercy is governed by God's pleasure and will (Eph 1:5).

God knows the hearts of all men, and can foresee things. Therefore, God places people in earthly positions, as we wills, to fulfill His plans.

However, God's plan regarding salvation is made crystal clear for us to understand. God offers salvation to all, and whosoever believes, God will save. Did God not make this clear for us in the Gospel? Did I not quote those Scriptures that you agreed with?

Blessings

Paul did not teach Perpetual Belief Alone-ism for salvation.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May God be with you and bless you.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May God be with you and bless you.

May God be with you and bless you.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May God be with you and bless you.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May God be with you and bless you.

May God be with you and bless you.

Chris Endrizzi

May God be with you and bless you.

Well-Known Member

May God be with you and bless you.

Chris Endrizzi

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

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