Americans: Where do you stand?
- Thread starter TheBear
- Start date
Hmm. So if I get my five street buddies together and we attack Ft Knox with handguns and switchblades with the intention of stealing all the gold, we should not be charged with attempted theft because we were too stupid to know that it's impossible to steal all the gold in Ft Knox by six guys attacking it with handguns and switchblades?
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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Apparently failure is a legitimate legal defense...
...which would go a long way to explain Donald's two acquittals.
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They do throw flags for offenses that don't actually work. An offside, for instance, draws a flag even if it makes no difference in the outcome of the play.
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- Feb 4, 2006
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You should be charged with the crimes you actually succeeded in committing.
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Overall violations give unfair advantage. It's not the ref's job to determine whether or not a violation would change the outcome of the play even if it clearly would.
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Actually there is a lot of data out there showing this is true. I think this video does a good job presenting the data, and making the point.
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So, then, if a rape fails because the rapist suffers impotence at the critical moment, we don't count it as "attempted rape?"
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Silverback
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TLK Valentine
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Right -- which means even if a violation doesn't change the outcome, there still should be a flag on the play.
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We do count it as attempted rape, but not rape. Rape is determined if there is vaginal "penetration of or by the slightest".
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RocksInMyHead
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So? The impeachable offense that he committed was only 14 days before he left office. Are you saying that presidents should get a free pass to do whatever they want in their final days in office? They did proceed quickly, but the evidence was pretty clear. Also, it was the most bipartisan impeachment vote ever, so that kind of undermines your claim that it was a "sham, partisan show."
There's a difference between resignation and simply allowing one's term to expire. If you resign, you make it clear that you believe that you did something wrong. Had Trump resigned during the week in which impeachment was being discussed, I suspect the issue would have been dropped.
How does this show that they "despise the constitution"? There's nothing that says that an official impeached while in office cannot be tried after they have left. You may believe that is how it should be interpreted, but that's just your opinion. A majority of senators - on multiple occasions now - disagree with you, and impeachment is a power grated solely to congress, as laid out in the constitution. Some rando on the internet does not supercede them.
In both of Trump's impeachments, there was clear evidence of misconduct. In the first, multiple Republican senators said that they believed he had acted inappropriately, just that it did not rise to the level of impeachment. In the second, we have McConnell saying that the only reason he voted for acquittal was that he did not believe it was constitutional - a flimsy excuse given the prior vote on the same matter as well as his role in creating said "unconstitutional" situation, but note that he condemned Trump's actions strongly.
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Well, by that measure, things are already that way.
And the impeachment charges were not that the capitol rioters actually accomplished what they intended, but that the president urged them to riot. Since they did, indeed, riot, it was not merely an "attempt."
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
Everyone's time is finite.
As a result, we all prioritize which values to pursue....or in this case which problems to solve.
If a problem cannot be solved, or is extremely unlikely to be solved....then yes, it's legitimate to question how much effort should be placed upon pursuing a solution.
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One can condemn actions, but it doesn't mean the actions should be high crimes or misdemeanors. In Trumps case all he did was express his belief that the election was rigged. And enough Americans see the same situation and believe the same thing.
You know I think if the Democrats, the media would have not attached him day in and day for 4 years, there might have been far fewer people to believe that. It was so obvious that the Democrats and media were going to do everything in their power to try and get rid of him, that it made it easy to believe they would do anything to get rid of him. The hatred for the man was palpable. I mean they were talking impeachment even before he was in office.
Anyway, it's done and over with. Is it possible for everyone to just move on?
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GreatLakes4Ever
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I honestly believe that anyone who wants us to simply move on wants this to happen again and hopefully, this time, the insurrectionists won’t fail in overthrowing the government.
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