What is grace?

Hmm said:

But with grace we don't get what we deserve, we get the opposite: we deserve God's punishment but we get forgiveness; we deserve His wrath but we get love. And he said we're called as Christians to dispense that kind of grace to the world.

He also said something that really struck me: that there's nothing we can do to make God love us more - no amount of spirituality, legalism designed to impress others or even good deeds. And similarly there's nothing we can do to make God love us less. No error that we make or sin that we commit.

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The question is WHY do we need grace...Yes God loves us, but we can show we love Him as well as our neighbor...

Hmm said:

But with grace we don't get what we deserve, we get the opposite: we deserve God's punishment but we get forgiveness; we deserve His wrath but we get love. And he said we're called as Christians to dispense that kind of grace to the world.

He also said something that really struck me: that there's nothing we can do to make God love us more - no amount of spirituality, legalism designed to impress others or even good deeds. And similarly there's nothing we can do to make God love us less. No error that we make or sin that we commit.

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Excellent definition but I think God wants some reciprocation from us:

Luk 10:27 He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Love in the NT is never only an emotion. God so loved the world that He gave.... grace.

When we love others, we give compassion.

What do we give when we love God? Trust.

God wants us to give Him our trust.

Andrewn said:

Luk 10:27 He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

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Originally in the Torah...Deuteronomy and Leviticus!

Good Day,


John Piper does a fine job at answering that very question:

I can tell how much faith someone has in their brakes by how fast they drive. In a sense, that sums up the whole grace thing. Or the old Discipleship Dynamics analogy: I can say I have faith in a chair to hold my weight, but if I never sit in it when the need arises, I'm a liar.

Grace allows us to be free to follow him, in spite of our failings. We get to focus on Him, rather than our own shortcomings (or strengths). And see ourself as no better or worse than ANYONE else around us, no matter what!

People living in faith can sometimes come across as downright arrogant - to people that enjoy being judgemental.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

The question is WHY do we need grace...Yes God loves us, but we can show we love Him as well as our neighbor...

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I think it's because given our nature, we wouldn't stand a chance of truly knowing God without it. Our sinful nature drives us away from Him. Most likely, without grace, we all would have been separated from God long ago with no hope of redemption.

Hmm said:

I was listening to an interview given by the writer Philip Yancey at Holy Trinity Brompton about his forthcoming, at the time, book Vanishing Grace. I found it interesting so thought I'd try to capture some of what he said here to hopefully get other's thoughts on the subject.

He was asked what grace really means and he said he tries to avoid defining it because Jesus didn't even though He talked a lot about grace - He usually answered direct questions with a story or a question back. But he said if he had to he would say that we live in a world of ungrace, a dog eat dog world where if someone hits us we hit them back, a we get what we deserve type world. But with grace we don't get what we deserve, we get the opposite: we deserve God's punishment but we get forgiveness; we deserve His wrath but we get love. And he said we're called as Christians to dispense that kind of grace to the world.

He also said something that really struck me: that there's nothing we can do to make God love us more - no amount of spirituality, legalism designed to impress others or even good deeds. And similarly there's nothing we can do to make God love us less. No error that we make or sin that we commit.

In summing up he said that our infinite God already loves us as much as He possibly can and if we can understand that then we'd have a little glimpse of what God's grace is.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Best definition I've heard is, "Grace is God doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves". Jesus said, "Apart from me, you can do nothing". That's pretty comprehensive. Right now, I'm going through one of the hardest times of my life. I'm depending on Lord Jesus to get me through. If I try to work it out myself, I'll end up in a complete mess. God's grace is sufficient. All the time and in every situation.

Hmm said:

I was listening to an interview given by the writer Philip Yancey at Holy Trinity Brompton about his forthcoming, at the time, book Vanishing Grace. I found it interesting so thought I'd try to capture some of what he said here to hopefully get other's thoughts on the subject.

He was asked what grace really means and he said he tries to avoid defining it because Jesus didn't even though He talked a lot about grace - He usually answered direct questions with a story or a question back. But he said if he had to he would say that we live in a world of ungrace, a dog eat dog world where if someone hits us we hit them back, a we get what we deserve type world. But with grace we don't get what we deserve, we get the opposite: we deserve God's punishment but we get forgiveness; we deserve His wrath but we get love. And he said we're called as Christians to dispense that kind of grace to the world.

He also said something that really struck me: that there's nothing we can do to make God love us more - no amount of spirituality, legalism designed to impress others or even good deeds. And similarly there's nothing we can do to make God love us less. No error that we make or sin that we commit.

In summing up he said that our infinite God already loves us as much as He possibly can and if we can understand that then we'd have a little glimpse of what God's grace is.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Yes, my thoughts on this are it is a very good reason to repent and turn to Christ more fully, believing in Him fully, and listening to all He says to us (in the gospel accounts).

Hmm said:

I was listening to an interview given by the writer Philip Yancey at Holy Trinity Brompton about his forthcoming, at the time, book Vanishing Grace. I found it interesting so thought I'd try to capture some of what he said here to hopefully get other's thoughts on the subject.

He was asked what grace really means and he said he tries to avoid defining it because Jesus didn't even though He talked a lot about grace - He usually answered direct questions with a story or a question back. But he said if he had to he would say that we live in a world of ungrace, a dog eat dog world where if someone hits us we hit them back, a we get what we deserve type world. But with grace we don't get what we deserve, we get the opposite: we deserve God's punishment but we get forgiveness; we deserve His wrath but we get love. And he said we're called as Christians to dispense that kind of grace to the world.

He also said something that really struck me: that there's nothing we can do to make God love us more - no amount of spirituality, legalism designed to impress others or even good deeds. And similarly there's nothing we can do to make God love us less. No error that we make or sin that we commit.

In summing up he said that our infinite God already loves us as much as He possibly can and if we can understand that then we'd have a little glimpse of what God's grace is.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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People sell grace and salvation short when they treat it as just being a return to neutral rather to abundance, such with someone committing a sin, receiving forgiveness that they didn't deserve, and now being back at neutral like how they were before they had committed that sin. While that is part of it, that is not the whole picture. The goal of the law against theft is not just to bring about a neutral world where no one commits theft, but to bring about a world where everyone is generous, and the goal of the law against murder is not just to bring about a neutral world where no one commits murder, but to bring about a world where life is celebrated, so the goal of salvation is not just to bring about our forgiveness from disobeying the Mosaic Law, but to bring about our obedience to it.

In Psalsm 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, in Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, and in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His undeserved gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, it does not just say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, but also in order to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is what it looks like to receive the undeserved gift of salvation (Acts 21:20).

Soyeong said:

The goal of the law against theft is not just to bring about a neutral world where no one commits theft, but to bring about a world where everyone is generous,

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I was just looking at this. Another way of saying what you just said here is instead of only the truncated form of the 'golden rule':

'don't do to others what you would not have others do to you'
(examples: Golden Rule - Wikipedia)

We are to do more than that, the proactive full form:
Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

I sometimes say to people: listen to our Lord in Matthew chapter 7, and you will get the crucial needed message: we will not make it if we do not put Christ's words into action in our lives. We will only make it if we do put Christ's words into action in our lives.

Hmm said:

I was also wondering if our love for God should reflect the grace of God as Yancy defined it. IOW should our love for God be such that we don't love Him more if He gives us riches or good favour and we won't love Him less if we have lots of hardship in our lives?

If God's love for us is constant, i.e. nothing we do can either increase or decrease it, if we experience unhappiness or misfortune it's not a sign that He's stopped loving or given up on us. I agree that loving God is trusting Him, trusting in His promise that He wants us to live life in all its fullness, and when things go wrong perhaps it's because we've messed things up or that we're living in a fallen world, not that God has stopped loving or acting for us.

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There is a type of love where parents will always care for their children and will never forsake them no matter the circumstances and no matter how they feel, but that is not the same as saying that parents will always feel love towards their children. The Psalms express an wide range of emotions towards God, but how we feel should not stop us from expressing our love for God by living in a way that testifies about His nature.

Hmm said:

I was listening to an interview given by the writer Philip Yancey at Holy Trinity Brompton about his forthcoming, at the time, book Vanishing Grace. I found it interesting so thought I'd try to capture some of what he said here to hopefully get other's thoughts on the subject.

He was asked what grace really means and he said he tries to avoid defining it because Jesus didn't even though He talked a lot about grace - He usually answered direct questions with a story or a question back. But he said if he had to he would say that we live in a world of ungrace, a dog eat dog world where if someone hits us we hit them back, a we get what we deserve type world. But with grace we don't get what we deserve, we get the opposite: we deserve God's punishment but we get forgiveness; we deserve His wrath but we get love. And he said we're called as Christians to dispense that kind of grace to the world.

He also said something that really struck me: that there's nothing we can do to make God love us more - no amount of spirituality, legalism designed to impress others or even good deeds. And similarly there's nothing we can do to make God love us less. No error that we make or sin that we commit.

In summing up he said that our infinite God already loves us as much as He possibly can and if we can understand that then we'd have a little glimpse of what God's grace is.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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What he described is not grace, he described mercy.

Often people, Christians included, don't fully understand what grace actually is. Grace is not just some abstract feel good thing. It is far more than favor or mercy. It is actually God's power. Just as anointing is the external power of God working through you, grace is the internal power of God. Grace is God's power/strength working IN you... to help you do what is right and what God has called you to do/be. It is the power to overcome and become. It is internal fortitude.

topher694 said:

Grace is not just some abstract feel good thing. It is far more than favor or mercy. It is actually God's power. Just as anointing is the external power of God working through you, grace is the internal power of God. Grace is God's power/strength working IN you... to help you do what is right and what God has called you to do/be. It is the power to overcome and become. It is internal fortitude.

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"In the Eastern Orthodox Church, grace is identified with the uncreated Energies of God. Among Eastern Christians generally, grace is considered to be the partaking of the Divine Nature described in 2 Peter 1:4."

Grace in Christianity - Wikipedia.

Just would like to answer the question what is Grace?

It is forgiveness, mercy, kindness, and love towards all man kind in which God sent his Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for all people. And to fulfill all promises that were made, when Christ Jesus was risen again after three days.

Imagine if God never sent his Son... Kind of makes me sad a bit.

Grace is where God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or our best efforts to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:6 - But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8,9 - We are saved by grace through faith, not works, not of ourselves it is the gift of God.

Galatians 2:21 - I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly.

2 Timothy 1:9 - who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

God's grace operates sovereignly in the lives of believers.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.