Do Tolkien (LOTR etc) and CS Lewis (Narnia) promote witchcraft?

I always saw both series as demonic to be honest

Lg2000 said:

I always saw both series as demonic to be honest

Click to expand...

I agree, brother. Well, I was not able to see this until after I rededicated my life in following Christ in approximately 2010.

Bible Highlighter said:

You cannot turn sin into a fictional thing, and say it is not sin because it is fictional now. That would be like writing a story about how on another planet, they use sex to communicate to each other. Just because the story is fantasy does not mean the book is not promoting sin. For Jesus said that just looking upon a woman in lust (i.e. fantasy) can cause a person to be cast bodily into hellfire. So yeah, not sure the promotion of the sin of witchcraft that God condemns is okay if it is just thrown into a fantasy setting. It doesn't make that sin any less a sin.

See, the problem in our culture is that the sin of witchcraft is not really a problem for your average person like say inappropriate content, or other kinds of sins, and so it gets a free pass. But kids have wanted to dabble in the occult by watching these kinds of movies (Especially Harry Potter).

Click to expand...

I didn't say Narnia was a fiction about real things (like a cowboy or spy novel) but rather a fiction about *fictional* things. In my quote from your (very long) post, I grabbed the first bit of it mentioning "satyrs or fauns" and "the pagan god Pan". All of these things are fictional, as in they don't exist and never did. It's like worrying about whether the Sith will turn you to the Dark Side. Both are *fictional* parts of the Star Wars universe.

I didn't say anything about "sin" or "Jesus" or any such thing.

(Though, tell me more about this "sex planet"...)

Bible Highlighter said:

So witchcraft is not a sin if it is promoted in a fantasy setting? What about cartoon inappropriate content? Is that entirely fictional and not real? I do not see the sin of witchcraft any different than say inappropriate content (which is fornication and or adultery, i.e. sexual immorality). They are both equally condemned by God. How folks cannot see this is beyond me. But people see what they want to see.

Click to expand...

Is it not possible that people are able to read something that is entirely fictional and go "Oh, this is entirely fictional and will have no impact on my life except for me enjoying it."? (I'm referring to the works of Tolkien and Lewis here, not the other ones you brought up)

Hans Blaster said:

I didn't say Narnia was a fiction about real things (like a cowboy or spy novel) but rather a fiction about *fictional* things. In my quote from your (very long) post, I grabbed the first bit of it mentioning "satyrs or fauns" and "the pagan god Pan". All of these things are fictional, as in they don't exist and never did. It's like worrying about whether the Sith will turn you to the Dark Side. Both are *fictional* parts of the Star Wars universe.

I didn't say anything about "sin" or "Jesus" or any such thing.

Click to expand...

Most importantly you need to know that Jesus loves you.
He has good news for you.
Jesus died for your sins, and He was buried and He was risen three days later on your behalf for salvation. Jesus has come to set you free from being a slave to your sin. Jesus wants to give you hope during this time of hopelessness. It all begins if you call upon the name of the Lord for salvation (Romans 10:13). Seek forgiveness of your sins with the Lord Jesus Christ and trust in Him for your salvation. The Lord loves you, and He wants to set you free from the sinful bondage of your life.

As for the point of the article:

It would be helpful if you actually read more of that very long post and you actually read it more carefully. First, while the character is fictional, it is based off of a real pagan god in history. One of the most well known fauns is the pagan god Pan. Like Pan, Mr. Tumnus appears as a half man, half goat creature. Pan is known for being a symbol of lust, immorality, and paganism. Second, you also ignored the bigger point in the article in that spells are used even by the good guys. Spells in our world is directly from witchcraft (Which is a sin in God's eyes). So this fiction is drawing from sinful things, which can influence others. For if somebody was a real witch, and they loved pagan worship, they would love the elements in these Narnia films. You would call them fiction, but the witch in our real world knows they are real things in their worship. But go ahead and ignore such truth if you like. Maybe witchcraft in your real world view is not real, but it does include real demonic activity (Despite whether or not you are aware of it). But God (Who is the maker of the Heavens and the Earth will one day end all forms of evil).

As for Star Wars:
Star Wars is replete with non-Christian worldview concepts, including elements of Gnosticism, Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Eastern meditation, occultism, and moral relativism. Star Wars, for instance, posits a yin-yang balance of opposing powers, which it calls “the Force”—a prominent thread in the films that has much in common with Taoism. Monistic pantheism is another element of the Star Wars movies that, in this case, borrows heavily from Hinduism. Moreover, aspects of the occult are prevalent in the Star Wars films and infuse various discussions and training involving the Force. Occult elements of Star Wars include telepathy, telekinesis, mind reading, and spiritism, to name a few. In addition, when it comes to its epistemology, Star Wars roots knowledge firmly in the realm of subjective feelings, urging viewers with pithy admonitions such as, “Feel, don’t think.” Far from being Christian, the Star Wars worldview is, on multiple levels, diametrically opposed to Christianity.

Source used:
May the Force Bewitch You: Evaluating the Star Wars Worldview | Christian Research Institute

You said:

(Though, tell me more about this "sex planet"...)

Click to expand...

Your profile says you are an atheist. So you are never going to get it.
No Christian would ever say such a thing.

For Jesus condemns sexual fantasies here:

“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

This kind of thinking also violates this passage, as well.

“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:5).

You should...

“Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.” (Colossians 3:2).

Then does Santa Claus also promote magic? How else does he do all that travel?

Akita Suggagaki said:

Then does Santa Claus also promote magic? How else does he do all that travel?

Click to expand...

Take the letter “n” in Santa and move it towards the end and it spells Satan. So yes, Santa promotes witchcraft because in his world he operates by magic. Those in witchcraft who are able to cast real spells today operate by the power of Satan. But the Lord God (maker of the Heavens and the Earth) is so much stronger and powerful than the enemy. For the thing created cannot be more powerful than the Creator. Jesus holds all things together by the word of His power.

Bible Highlighter said:

Take the letter “n” in Santa and move it toward the end and it spells Satan. So yes, Santa promotes witchcraft because in his world he operates by magic. Those in witchcraft who are able to cast real spells today operate by the power of Satan. But the Lord God (maker of the Heavens and the Earth) is so much stronger and powerful than the enemy. For the thing created cannot be more powerful than the Creator. Jesus holds all things together by the word of His power.

Click to expand...

Santa is based off Saint Nicholas, a Christian bishop.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Santa is based off Saint Nicholas, a Christian bishop.

Click to expand...

This is from Roman Catholicism. I don't consider Roman Catholicism to be biblical. Catholics actually martyred bible believing (Sola Scriptura) Christians for their faith throughout history. Note: I am not talking about Protestant Christians, either.

Anyways, my point is that nowhere will you find Santa Claus in the Bible. God's Word condemns witchcraft, and Jesus tells us that we can be condemned by having a sexual thought (Matthew 5:28-30). This means that the fantasy card does not undo a particular sin in our Lord's eyes.

Bible Highlighter said:

This is from Roman Catholicism. I don't consider Roman Catholicism to be biblical. Catholics actually martyred bible believing (Sola Scriptura) Christians for their faith throughout history. Note: I am not talking about Protestant Christians.

Click to expand...

It's still Christianity. Saint Nicholas was a Christian bishop, who was the direct inspiration for Santa Claus.
Tolkien and Lewis do not promote un-Christian beliefs, in fact as devout Christians, they wrote in very Biblical themes into their works of fiction. If you believe that works of fiction are a threat to your soul, then I do kind of feel sorry for you.

Bible Highlighter said:

It would be helpful if you actually read more of that very long post and you actually read it more carefully. First, while the character is fictional, it is based off of a real pagan god in history. One of the most well known fauns is the pagan god Pan. Like Pan, Mr. Tumnus appears as a half man, half goat creature. Pan is known for being a symbol of lust, immorality, and paganism.

Click to expand...

I don't deny that Pan was worshiped in pagan religion. The real question for you is:

Was the "Pan" worshiped by the ancients a real god? Did it exist? Or rather, do you think it existed, or exists?

I never thought than Pan or Zeus or Apollo (the god, not the space program) existed. That's not what my church taught. They taught very clearly that there were no other gods, just the Yahweh-Jesus-Spirt god. (From the OT, it's clear that the ancient Israelites *did* believe there were other gods, but theirs was just the best.)

If you don't think Pan (and the others) actually existed, this brings back my original question: "Why does it matter if someone writes fiction about fictional characters?" How does this "promote" evils? Why is it different than reading fiction about "Klingon massacres" since Klingons are fictional?

If you do think Pan (or the others) actually existed: JUSTIFY that claim of existence.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

It's still Christianity. Saint Nicholas was a Christian bishop, who was the direct inspiration for Santa Claus.
Tolkien and Lewis do not promote un-Christian beliefs, in fact as devout Christians, they wrote in very Biblical themes into their works of fiction. If you believe that works of fiction are a threat to your soul, then I do kind of feel sorry for you.

Click to expand...

Sorry that I don't accept witchcraft in a fantasy setting? Sorry, I will not fantasize about sin just because they are written by popular authors. I follow the Lord Jesus Christ and His good ways. Why would I want to fantasize about things that my Lord hates?

Hans Blaster said:

I don't deny that Pan was worshiped in pagan religion. The real question for you is:

Was the "Pan" worshiped by the ancients a real god? Did it exist? Or rather, do you think it existed, or exists?

I never thought than Pan or Zeus or Apollo (the god, not the space program) existed. That's not what my church taught. They taught very clearly that there were no other gods, just the Yahweh-Jesus-Spirt god. (From the OT, it's clear that the ancient Israelites *did* believe there were other gods, but theirs was just the best.)

If you don't think Pan (and the others) actually existed, this brings back my original question: "Why does it matter if someone writes fiction about fictional characters?" How does this "promote" evils? Why is it different than reading fiction about "Klingon massacres" since Klingons are fictional?

If you do think Pan (or the others) actually existed: JUSTIFY that claim of existence.

Click to expand...

It is true that there is only one true God. But when people dabble in the occult, they are in the realm of Satan and his evil can effect their life in a bad way if they seek out more of the occult and pagan worship.

But the One true God wants to set these kinds of people free from their sin and slavery to Satan.

Bible Highlighter said:

Sorry that I don't accept witchcraft in a fantasy setting? Sorry, I will not fantasize about sin just because they are written by popular authors who call themselves Christian.

Click to expand...

They were Christians, and no amount of double-think and evasion from you can change that. You do not have that power of arbitration to say whether or not a person was a Christian just because they do things you do not like.
Fantasy is fictional and fictional means that its not real. Any magic that is shown in the works of Tolkien or Lewis is something that does not exist. Again, I feel sorry for you that you feel that works of fantasy are something that can threaten your soul.

Bible Highlighter said:

As for Star Wars:
Star Wars is replete with non-Christian worldview concepts, including elements of Gnosticism, Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Eastern meditation, occultism, and moral relativism. Star Wars, for instance, posits a yin-yang balance of opposing powers, which it calls “the Force”—a prominent thread in the films that has much in common with Taoism. Monistic pantheism is another element of the Star Wars movies that, in this case, borrows heavily from Hinduism. Moreover, aspects of the occult are prevalent in the Star Wars films and infuse various discussions and training involving the Force. Occult elements of Star Wars include telepathy, telekinesis, mind reading, and spiritism, to name a few. In addition, when it comes to its epistemology, Star Wars roots knowledge firmly in the realm of subjective feelings, urging viewers with pithy admonitions such as, “Feel, don’t think.” Far from being Christian, the Star Wars worldview is, on multiple levels, diametrically opposed to Christianity.

Click to expand...

I'm well aware "feels"-y nature of reality in the SW universe. It's part of why I never got deep into it. (I've enjoyed the movies and seen them many times.) I mean... my user name is a Star Wars reference (hint the first word is possessive) and references my skepticism.

I'm starting to get the feeling that only properly Christian entertainment is OK for you. I used to know your types and they sucked all the fun out of entertainment.

Bible Highlighter said:

It is true that there is only one true God. But when people dabble in the occult, they are in the realm of Satan and his evil can effect their life in a bad way if they seek out more of the occult and pagan worship.

Click to expand...

Well that's good to hear. I really hate listening to Christians trying to argue that Zeus was a real, but just some sort of fallen angel or whatever.

How is reading a book with fantasy magic elements "dabbling in the occult"? When I was a pre-teen (and the Satanic panic was in full bloom), there certainly was a lot of concern about kids using ouiji boards and the like because of "the dabbling", but that was an actual action. (There was also concern about role playing that used magic.) I don't recall reading fantasy fiction as a big concern then. There was bigger problems like backward messages from satan in heavy metal music.

Bible Highlighter said:

Discussing such things with you is beyond your comprehension. You need to have the Lord living within you in order to undestand. God hates sin, and He does not want His people filling their minds with sinful things. Surely there are sins in this world that you hate. This is how God feels about sin. For if somebody murdered or stolen in this world, you would no doubt think that was wrong. There is a standard of morality and God sets that standard. We cannot always go off our feelings on what we want to be good or bad. God determines the standard of morality by His Word.

Click to expand...

Quit the preaching. I heard it every week for 20 years. Then it stopped working. Plus this is the entertainment section, not the "preach at a random atheist section". Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

Hans Blaster said:

Quit the preaching. I heard it every week for 20 years. Then it stopped working. Plus this is the entertainment section, not the "preach at a random atheist section". Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

Click to expand...

Do not underestimate the power of GOD. I used to be an atheist, too. But GOD had other plans for me.

Bible Highlighter said:

Do not underestimate the power of GOD. I used to be an atheist, too. But GOD had other plans for me.

Click to expand...

Your god let me go then, since it does not call to me.