Anyone want to discuss KJVO ?
- Thread starter robycop3
- Start date
GenemZ
Well-Known Member
- Mar 1, 2004
- 22,141
- 1,372
- 73
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
Which in many cases needs to be translated itself because of the archaic language and anachronisms we do not speak today.
There are classes today designed just so people can begin to understand Shakespeare.
Apparently, people who like the King James have no idea how it obscures what is needed to be known. And, they must like their state of ignorance because of how the flowery wording makes them "feel."
Sure the King James gets some things right. All translations do in their own way. But speak to me in the language I can understand!
Paul said...
But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than
ten thousand words in a tongue." 1 Cor 14:19
The KJV form of ancient form of English is a foreign way of speaking today. Its not readily understood.
If a sergeant gave orders on the battlefield in KJV English, many of his squad would get wiped out because of not knowing what to do. And, we are in a very real spiritual war.
grace and peace......
Upvote
0
- Mar 4, 2005
- 27,916
- 7,996
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Oh I'm sure it gets lots of things right; as I said, the Gospel is the same in all translations.
And if anyone reads, studies, learns the KJV and finds that it help them to grow in their faith and closer to Jesus, fantastic; don't stop.
But I, and I think the author of this thread, am against the view, sometimes promoted on here, that ONLY the KJV is the word of God; that other translations are false/New Age and were from Satan who is trying to lead everyone astray.
That is not the case.
The newer translations proclaim the same God, the same Gospel and the same faith as the KJV. None are superior; it's a matter of preference.
Though I absolutely agree about the language; if the KJV actually prevents people from reading the Bible/learning about God, it's detrimental.
Upvote
0
I understand the KJV but it took allot of time , effort and work to do so. Its not that way with the ESV, NASB, NKJV etc.... Those are easy to read and understand in comparison to the archaic Elizabethan KJV that was written in the language of their times not ours. And there is also a certain arrogance with those who are KJV onlyists where they come across as superior and everyone else is inferior.
Upvote
0
GenemZ
Well-Known Member
- Mar 1, 2004
- 22,141
- 1,372
- 73
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
If you could take one of our modern translations and hop into a time machine...
And go back to 1611?
If you handed any of those translations to King James? He would wonder what planet you were from. He would throw it out as being too hard to understand.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,510
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
God is not the author of confusion. If you were to read a bunch of different versions together in a Bible study, it all sounds different. It will sound like the tower of Babel. We can see many verses are changed and or removed between different versions. But ONLY one Bible can be God's Holy Word.
If folks want to play the Hebrew and Greek game, what they are really doing is correcting God's Word. What they are doing is putting themselves in God's place in what His Word says. They have to decide what the original languages mean when they do not even grow up in Bible times to know these dead languages. They are Bible correctors. They are always saying this is a mistake in our Bible and it should be translated like this. Who made them God to determine that they are truly correct? But see, when we have a perfect authority, we do not need to guess as to what a dead language says, or try to figure it out being fallible. We just trust that God preserved His words as Psalms 12:6-7 says. We can hold God's Word perfectly in our hands today and just simply read, and believe them. There is nothing to figure out (except for occasional English word studies), and by looking at the context.
Anyways, what this topic really had to do with is authority. It's not about whether the KJB is hard to understand, or not. It's not about the accuracy of the KJB. Men do not want to be under God's authority, and so they will attack it. Good luck with fighting against God if that is your agenda. God's Word is true and will prove you wrong in the end. For His Word shall not return void. But if you have many different words (from different translations), and or you have a choose your own adventure Bible by pointing to a definition in a Lexicon you prefer, then there is no real Word to entirely stand upon. Sure, it may be close on certain doctrines, but overall, the Modern Translations are tainted. In fact, they have the devil's name placed within them. Surely this is not a coincidence.
See, there is a difference between doing a Bible study with GOD (and in trusting what His Word plainly says), vs. studying a Lexicon (which comes from scholars or religious men).
If folks want to play the Hebrew and Greek game, what they are really doing is correcting God's Word. What they are doing is putting themselves in God's place in what His Word says. They have to decide what the original languages mean when they do not even grow up in Bible times to know these dead languages. They are Bible correctors. They are always saying this is a mistake in our Bible and it should be translated like this. Who made them God to determine that they are truly correct? But see, when we have a perfect authority, we do not need to guess as to what a dead language says, or try to figure it out being fallible. We just trust that God preserved His words as Psalms 12:6-7 says. We can hold God's Word perfectly in our hands today and just simply read, and believe them. There is nothing to figure out (except for occasional English word studies), and by looking at the context.
Anyways, what this topic really had to do with is authority. It's not about whether the KJB is hard to understand, or not. It's not about the accuracy of the KJB. Men do not want to be under God's authority, and so they will attack it. Good luck with fighting against God if that is your agenda. God's Word is true and will prove you wrong in the end. For His Word shall not return void. But if you have many different words (from different translations), and or you have a choose your own adventure Bible by pointing to a definition in a Lexicon you prefer, then there is no real Word to entirely stand upon. Sure, it may be close on certain doctrines, but overall, the Modern Translations are tainted. In fact, they have the devil's name placed within them. Surely this is not a coincidence.
See, there is a difference between doing a Bible study with GOD (and in trusting what His Word plainly says), vs. studying a Lexicon (which comes from scholars or religious men).
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,510
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Today, men worship education. It's why people look up to whether or not they have a title in theology or not. They want to impress men by what kind of degrees they have. But this is not how the wisdom of God is learned.
So I beg and plead for all here to trust God's Word (if you have not done so already). Trust that God basically said He would preserve His Word perfectly according to Psalms 12:6-7.
However, it is strange that this very passage is altered or tampered with in various Modern Translations. Surely the enemy does not want us to trust these words in Scripture; And I believe that is what he has done. The enemy is seeking to destroy our faith in God's Holy Word.
So I beg and plead for all here to trust God's Word (if you have not done so already). Trust that God basically said He would preserve His Word perfectly according to Psalms 12:6-7.
However, it is strange that this very passage is altered or tampered with in various Modern Translations. Surely the enemy does not want us to trust these words in Scripture; And I believe that is what he has done. The enemy is seeking to destroy our faith in God's Holy Word.
Upvote
0
a-lily-of-peace
Well-Known Member
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(John 1:1-5, KJV)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(John 1:14, KJV)
(John 1:1-5, KJV)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(John 1:14, KJV)
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Mar 4, 2005
- 27,916
- 7,996
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Nope.
there is one Gospel, one Saviour, one God, one Holy Spirit, one way to salvation etc - and all are proclaimed in all translations of Scripture.
If there was only ONE true translation of the Bible, and could never be any others, it would be the first Bible ever made - not a Bible that was produced centuries later, and which has, itself, been revised a few times.
The Bible was written in these languages.
They are not nearly as dead as 17th century English is. People learn Hebrew and Greek today; I have never come across courses that teach people to speak olde English.
They don't need to be God - just experts in that language.
My guess is that if the Greek NT said something and the KJV translated it perfectly while other Bibles did not, you'd shout it from the rooftops. No more nonsense about dead languages and people playing God and deciding which word was correct - you'd want us all to know just how accurate your KJV was.
The fact that you are trying to explain away the importance of the Greek and Hebrew tells me that the KJV translation differs from what these documents say.
So, as I've said in another thread, you won't compare the KJV with the Hebrew/Greek documents because it would be seen to be inaccurate.
The topic of this thread is whether or not it is correct to say that the KJV ONLY is the word of God, the Bible.
It isn't.
We can read about God, his nature, his will, his salvation etc in any Bible.
Nonsense.
There are thousands, if not millions, of born again Christians who love, trust and serve God and bow to his authority, who have never read the KJV.
I don't believe it's anyone's agenda.
You seem to be saying that it is because you don't like people questioning the KJV.
No one here has ever said that God's word is not true.
Only that the translation called the KJV is not the only Bible, was not the original and not even the first to be produced in English, and is not the only word of God.
Are YOU saying that those who don't read the KJV do not read, or use, God's word and are trying to challenge his authority? Be careful; that's not far off from implying that they are not Christians or not saved.
Says who?
Where is the Gospel different in the KJV to in every other Bible?
I think that's rather insulting to people who have translated the Bible using recent discoveries and manuscripts to say that their work is tainted and in the name of the devil.
If it wasn't for lexicons, dictionaries, language scholars etc, you would not even know what the bible said.
The scholars who translated the KJV used the scholarship that was available to them. The only thing they could not do was to include discoveries that were made a few hundred years later.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,510
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
With false accusations like that, we are done talking.
Have a nice day.
May God’s love shine upon you today.
Upvote
0
- Mar 4, 2005
- 27,916
- 7,996
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Interesting - I didn't mention you by name as being a Bible worshipper.
Worshipping the Bible means that some people value the book itself as a book - the language, translation, maybe the fact that a particular copy has been a family heirloom, used at baptisms and weddings, or by someone during the war. Some people (I'm NOT saying you) put such a Bible on the coffee table/get it out when the vicar comes/won't let anyone read it in case they spoil it and may even use it as a lucky charm.
Some people have claimed that to throw a copy of the Bible away, is blasphemy.
I don't believe you take it to that extreme. You have faith and doubtless know the Bible well; it is important to you.
But it does appear that you only accept the KJV translation and believe that only this Bible is in fact the word of God - the translation appears to be of prime importance to you.
You have said in another thread that you would rather die than admit that the KJV may not be perfect. In the NT, people were commended if they were persecuted or killed for their beliefs and their refusal to deny God, Jesus and the faith. Stephen was the first Christian martyr; Peter, James, Paul, Andrew and others were all killed for the Gospel and their faith in God.
Nowhere does anyone say that we should be prepared to die for a book.
I AM, truly, delighted that you love the Bible and find the KJV invaluable - as I've said before, that's great and you shouldn't stop using it.
What I dislike is the inference that anyone who does not value this translation as you do is a 2nd class Christian, accepting a tainted work and being used by the devil who apparently is delighted that he has conned us into believing another Gospel.
Yet the Gospel is the same in whichever Bible you favour. Jesus is the Saviour, crucified, risen, ascended and glorified. The wages of sin are still the same; the Trinity, Holy Spirit, incarnation, Kingdom of God and Jesus' return are still the same too.
May God bless you too.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Brethren, I've heard many a KJV-using preacher hafta stop in mid-sermon to explain the meaning of archaic & obsolete wording in the KJV. It'd be much-easier to preach from a Bible version in OUR language, that ANY English-user will understand.
Mr. Bible Highlighter can't get by the FACT that the KJVO myth is NOT found in Scripture, even in the KJV itself, & thus is false coming outta the gate.
Mr. Bible Highlighter can't get by the FACT that the KJVO myth is NOT found in Scripture, even in the KJV itself, & thus is false coming outta the gate.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,510
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
You accused that folks worship the KJB. I have not known any KJB people to actually do that. So it is a false accusation (At least that fits the norm). Having a final Word of authority does not mean a person bows down to a book as of it is God Himself. KJB Christians believe God is spirit and that we must worship Him in spirit and truth. The difference between the Anti-One Perfect Bible for Today Folk vs the Christian who believes otherwise is that the KJB Christian believes God’s Word in Psalms 12:6-7. The KJB proponent does not believe in correcting God’s Word, unlike those who are against the KJB being the perfect Word for our day.
Upvote
0
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,510
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
One either believes there is a perfect Bible for today that we can know or either one thinks they must correct the Bible and or they believe in following a sea of many Bibles that do not all say the same thing.
I choose to believe God’s Word and I don’t believe we should correct His Word and neither should we follow a sea of many Bibles that are not perfect.
I choose to believe God’s Word and I don’t believe we should correct His Word and neither should we follow a sea of many Bibles that are not perfect.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 22, 2014
- 41,510
- 7,861
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
If someone put a little rat poison in a clean glass of water, will you drink it?
That is what you fail to realize has happened with Modern Translations.
The devil has placed his names in various Modern Translations.
Certain commands of Jesus are changed.
Key important truths or teachings are either removed and changed.
You said:
God's ways are not our ways. There are plenty of ways to determine the truth that the KJB is the pure Word of God for today. Biblical Numerics is a really great one in my opinion.
You said:
I should not have to tell you how moronic it is to defend the idea that it is easier to understand Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek vs. say 1600's English. Your average person cannot read, write, or speak Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek. In fact, nobody can truly do so with 100% accuracy because these languages are long gone. The majority of the words in 1600's English can be read and understood.
Another problem is that you fail to realize that a Lexicon is basically a religious dictionary and this means that they are biased to their own preferred belief (Which is not usually the case with a secular English dictionary).
You said:
Not all Greek texts say the same thing. So which Greek texts do they go with? Do they use the Egyptian Alexandrian texts? You know. God's Word really does not speak favorably of Egypt. This is where all those fancy Modern Translations come from. Or do you go with the Textus Receptus line (of which the KJB comes from)?
As for the experts, not all scholars agree and they are only guessing. They are CORRECTING the KJB. They are Bible CORRECTORS. That is what they do. God's Word is not good enough for them, so they change it and claim they know the language when they really do not not know it.
You said:
I never said that KJB did not come from the Hebrew and Greek.
But what is dumb is that most in the OAO (Original Autograph Only) Camp say that the originals were inspired and perfect, but no perfect Bible exists today. This would destroy the whole point of inspiring the originals in being perfect in the first place. If God did not preserve His Word perfectly for us today, then it is kind of pointless to inspire the originals unless we are being punished by God or something.
See, I got a real Bible that I can hold in my hands that is perfect and without error.
You have to use some kind of decipher code key to understand His Word and you have to hope you have the right line of manuscripts. I don't need to guess what is God's Word. The KJB all on it's own has many evidences backing it up that it is indeed the HOLY BIBLE as it says on many covers of the KJB.
You said:
Right, because the 47 translators are morons in your view compared to some one guy or some Pastor who wants to correct God's Word because they don't like what it says.
You said:
Generally speaking but not precisely. So this would be false. Like I said. If you put rat poison in purified water it then becomes tainted. 2 Timothy 2:15 is one example. Modern Translations teach something else on this verse. But if I believe my King James Bible, then I know that I am to study to show myself approved unto God. Your Modern Bible sends a different message. Not important? Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
You said:
Thousands? Millions? So which is it? Sounds like your guessing. Meaning, you really don't know.
You said:
Oh yeah. It is an agenda, alright. It is an attack on God's Holy Word.
Comparing the KJB vs. Modern Translations will show you that the Modern Translations attack the Trinity, the deity of Christ, holy living, and more. Whole sections are removed in certain Modern Translations. The devil's name is placed in them. Why one would want to defend such translations is beyond me.
You said:
Any attack on God's true Holy Word (the KJB) is basically saying the same thing.
Remember, GOD does not make mistakes. But you want me to believe His Word has mistakes in it, and that we have to go to a dead language that is nearly impossible to know in order to understand it. But good luck with that. I will trust in my King James Bible to the grave.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
