Time and Biblical Prophecy

Zao is life

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I think everyone would agree with me that the only time that exists in the universe right now, at this very moment, is right now, this very moment, and the earth is in the exact same position in its orbit round the sun that it was 365.333 days ago, and that it will be in 365.333 days from now.

Right now, this very moment, is the only time we can live in, because the future does not exist right now, neither does the past. Therefore while it is wise to plan, nevertheless longing for the future, hoping for better days to come is as futile as longing for the past, wishing we could relive better days gone by.

This moment is becoming another, which will become another, and another. Time is always becoming.

However, Time only exists in relation to events and activity in the creation, in the universe - the cycles of birth, life and death of stars and planets and galaxies, and of life on earth. Therefore (and by way of example) if the air is "No-Time" (a.k.a "Eternity"), then Time is one aspect of the contents of the gas balloon floating around in the air.

The very last words in the Old Testament were spoken by the prophet Malachi regarding another prophet, a prophet named Elijah who had already come, and had already prophesied, and who was yet to come and was yet to prophesy, in order to prepare the way for the Messiah who was yet to come:

"Behold, I am sending you Elijah* the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction."
(Malachi 4:5-6)

*A prophet who was taken up into heaven without dying.

Somewhere between 425 and 430 years after the last words in the Old Testament were written, a priest named Zechariah, who was the father of John the Baptist, was told by an angel, whom he saw in the Temple of God in Jerusalem, that Zechariah's wife was going to bear him a son - a son who:

".. shall turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. And he shall go before Him (the Messiah) in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." (Luke 1:16-17).

When John the Baptist had grown into adulthood and started prophesying in the wilderness regarding the coming of the Messiah, the Jewish Pharisees sent Priests and Levites to ask him who he was. After telling them he was not the Messiah, the Priests and Levites asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, to which he replied,

"I am not" (John 1:21).

After the disciples of Jesus, who were with Him on the mountain where He was transfigured, had seen Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the mountain, they asked Jesus, "

"Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" (Matthew 17:10).

In His reply, Jesus juxtaposed a future-tense fulfillment of the prophecy regarding the coming of Elijah with a past-tense fulfillment:

"Elijah truly shall come first and restore all things.

But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but have done to him whatever they desired. Likewise also the Son of man shall suffer from them."


Matthew's gospel records that Jesus' disciples understood, when Jesus mentioned the past-tense fulfillment of the prophecy, that He spoke to them about John the Baptist. (Matthew 17:13).

Elijah.png


To me, this is the only way to correctly understand the prophecies regarding the coming of Messiah and the Kingdom of Messiah:

First Resurrection

The Greek word egeírō (ἐγείρω) is one of the the verbs found in the New Testament, very often used in reference to the bodily rising again from death. When syn appears prefixed to egeírō (synegeírō), it shows that the resurrection of the individual believer in Christ is something which occurs with Christ's resurrection. It's the same prefix we get with words like synthesis and synchronize.

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

There is only one resurrection - and Christ is the resurrection and the Life:

John 11:23-26
"Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.

Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"


Christ is the resurrection and the Life. Any resurrection to take place after Christ's, takes place because of Christ's resurrection and with (synegeírō) His resurrection. There is no 2nd (or 3rd, or 4th) resurrection. Those who rise from the dead when Christ appears are those who are Christ's at His coming, according to Paul in I Corinthians 15:22-26:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.


The last enemy made to cease is death."

Kingdom

The Kingdom of Christ exists now in the world, has existed for 2,000 years and will exist forever. He is the One who is, who was and who is to come, the Almighty. The universe has always been the Kingdom which belongs to God, and if the King allows an adversary to cause havoc in His Kingdom, then it's because:

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways My ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and does not return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring out and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
so shall My word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall certainly do what I sent it to do."
Isaiah 55:8-11

If the King of a Kingdom wants to prevent His adversary from creating havoc in His Kingdom, He would need to either bind His adversary and lock him in a dungeon, OR destroy him.

If a murderer who has been in prison for 20 years claims he is rehabilitated and pleads for his release, promising to go and serve humanity afterward, and is released on probation to see what he will do, but then goes out and murders someone again, would the state be just if it gives the man the death penalty the second time around?

Would our King need to bind His adversary and lock Him in a dungeon if the King wanted to rule over His Kingdom unhindered by an adversary?

If the king released His adversary again on probation after a thousand years to see what he will do, and then destroys His adversary in the lake of fire after His adversary goes out doing the exact same thing, would our King be just?

The Kingdom of Christ has already come. The Kingdom of Christ is coming. The Kingdom of Christ just IS: Christ is He who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. In the Bible, the NHNE (New Heavens and New Earth) is linked to "no time" (a.k.a "eternity").

Eternity is not coming in the future. It IS, it WAS and it IS TO COME.

AGES AND THE AGES OF AGES.png


The removal of the curse that came at the fall of Adam was accomplished and completed by Christ Himself in His death and resurrection. It's not something that "will only be in the future when the NHNE comes".

END
 
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Zao is life

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I got lost in whatever point the opening post is intending to make. But the rapture/resurrection has not happened yet.
The resurrection/rapture you are looking forward to in "Time" is in Christ. It has already happened:

John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

There is only one resurrection - and Christ is the resurrection and the Life:

John 11:23-26
"Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.

Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
 
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Douggg

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Zao is life

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^_^ I exist, as you do, in "Time".

You need to stop viewing "time" from a two-dimensional, linear perspective.

This:

Time.png


only takes place in eternity. Eternity envelops Time. The resurrection is in Christ and in Christ alone, the last Adam, and He IS risen. He IS the resurrection and the life - and He transcends time.

"And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist." Col 1:17.

In "Time" the resurrection has already taken place, but ours is still coming.

We are in Christ. You forget that we are either in Adam or in Christ, the last Adam. He is also the son of man, meaning He represents all mankind because He is the last Adam.

Christ is already resurrected. Our resurrection is still to come in time but we are raised with Him (synegeiro).

Our bodies are still flesh because we have not been raised yet, but we are in Christ and our resurrection is with His resurrection.

He IS the resurrection and the life, and He IS risen.

In the creation there is only one resurrection - in Christ.
 
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BABerean2

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I think everyone would agree with me that the only time that exists in the universe right now, at this very moment, is right now, this very moment, and the earth is in the exact same position in its orbit round the sun that it was 365.333 days ago, and that it will be in 365.333 days from now.


The orbits of the planets are elliptical, which means your statement above is not exactly true.

The earth is closer to the sun during the winter for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere, during this time in the history of the earth. At other times it was not.




.
 
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Zao is life

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The orbits of the planets are elliptical, which means your statement above is not exactly true.

The earth is closer to the sun during the winter for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere, during this time in the history of the earth. At other times it was not.




.
Thank you. "More or less" in the exact same spot, then.
 
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Timtofly

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Thank you. "More or less" in the exact same spot, then.
I remember back in 94, working outside in -32 F about everyday 3 weeks straight. Last winter it barely got down to freezing and my grass was green the whole winter.
 
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Zao is life

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I remember back in 94, working outside in -32 F about everyday 3 weeks straight. Last winter it barely got down to freezing and my grass was green the whole winter.
Yeah but then you might find it swinging back to what you were used to again during your lifetime.

I only used the earth's orbit round the sun to aid people to understand that "Time" is not linear, and only exists in the creation.
 
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swainkas

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I think everyone would agree with me that the only time that exists in the universe right now, at this very moment, is right now, this very moment, and the earth is in the exact same position in its orbit round the sun that it was 365.333 days ago, and that it will be in 365.333 days from now.

Right now, this very moment, is the only time we can live in, because the future does not exist right now, neither does the past. Therefore while it is wise to plan, nevertheless longing for the future, hoping for better days to come is as futile as longing for the past, wishing we could relive better days gone by.

This moment is becoming another, which will become another, and another. Time is always becoming.

However, Time only exists in relation to events and activity in the creation, in the universe - the cycles of birth, life and death of stars and planets and galaxies, and of life on earth. Therefore (and by way of example) if the air is "No-Time" (a.k.a "Eternity"), then Time is one aspect of the contents of the gas balloon floating around in the air.

The very last words in the Old Testament were spoken by the prophet Malachi regarding another prophet, a prophet named Elijah who had already come, and had already prophesied, and who was yet to come and was yet to prophesy, in order to prepare the way for the Messiah who was yet to come:

"Behold, I am sending you Elijah* the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction."
(Malachi 4:5-6)

*A prophet who was taken up into heaven without dying.

Somewhere between 425 and 430 years after the last words in the Old Testament were written, a priest named Zechariah, who was the father of John the Baptist, was told by an angel, whom he saw in the Temple of God in Jerusalem, that Zechariah's wife was going to bear him a son - a son who:

".. shall turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. And he shall go before Him (the Messiah) in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." (Luke 1:16-17).

When John the Baptist had grown into adulthood and started prophesying in the wilderness regarding the coming of the Messiah, the Jewish Pharisees sent Priests and Levites to ask him who he was. After telling them he was not the Messiah, the Priests and Levites asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, to which he replied,

"I am not" (John 1:21).

After the disciples of Jesus, who were with Him on the mountain where He was transfigured, had seen Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the mountain, they asked Jesus, "

"Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" (Matthew 17:10).

In His reply, Jesus juxtaposed a future-tense fulfillment of the prophecy regarding the coming of Elijah with a past-tense fulfillment:

"Elijah truly shall come first and restore all things.

But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but have done to him whatever they desired. Likewise also the Son of man shall suffer from them."


Matthew's gospel records that Jesus' disciples understood, when Jesus mentioned the past-tense fulfillment of the prophecy, that He spoke to them about John the Baptist. (Matthew 17:13).

View attachment 287736

To me, this is the only way to correctly understand the prophecies regarding the coming of Messiah and the Kingdom of Messiah:

First Resurrection

The Greek word egeírō (ἐγείρω) is one of the the verbs found in the New Testament, very often used in reference to the bodily rising again from death. When syn appears prefixed to egeírō (synegeírō), it shows that the resurrection of the individual believer in Christ is something which occurs with Christ's resurrection. It's the same prefix we get with words like synthesis and synchronize.

Colossians 3:1
"If ye then be risen with [συνεγείρω synegeírō] Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

Compare this with Romans 6:5:
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

There is only one resurrection - and Christ is the resurrection and the Life:

John 11:23-26
"Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.

Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"


Christ is the resurrection and the Life. Any resurrection to take place after Christ's, takes place because of Christ's resurrection and with (synegeírō) His resurrection. There is no 2nd (or 3rd, or 4th) resurrection. Those who rise from the dead when Christ appears are those who are Christ's at His coming, according to Paul in I Corinthians 15:22-26:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.

But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power.
for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet.


The last enemy made to cease is death."

Kingdom

The Kingdom of Christ exists now in the world, has existed for 2,000 years and will exist forever. He is the One who is, who was and who is to come, the Almighty. The universe has always been the Kingdom which belongs to God, and if the King allows an adversary to cause havoc in His Kingdom, then it's because:

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor your ways My ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
For as the rain comes down, and the snow from the heavens, and does not return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring out and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
so shall My word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall certainly do what I sent it to do."
Isaiah 55:8-11

If the King of a Kingdom wants to prevent His adversary from creating havoc in His Kingdom, He would need to either bind His adversary and lock him in a dungeon, OR destroy him.

If a murderer who has been in prison for 20 years claims he is rehabilitated and pleads for his release, promising to go and serve humanity afterward, and is released on probation to see what he will do, but then goes out and murders someone again, would the state be just if it gives the man the death penalty the second time around?

Would our King need to bind His adversary and lock Him in a dungeon if the King wanted to rule over His Kingdom unhindered by an adversary?

If the king released His adversary again on probation after a thousand years to see what he will do, and then destroys His adversary in the lake of fire after His adversary goes out doing the exact same thing, would our King be just?

The Kingdom of Christ has already come. The Kingdom of Christ is coming. The Kingdom of Christ just IS: Christ is He who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. In the Bible, the NHNE (New Heavens and New Earth) is linked to "no time" (a.k.a "eternity").

Eternity is not coming in the future. It IS, it WAS and it IS TO COME.

View attachment 287735

The removal of the curse that came at the fall of Adam was accomplished and completed by Christ Himself in His death and resurrection. It's not something that "will only be in the future when the NHNE comes".

END

You left out Matthew 11:14 in your discussion of John the Baptist.
 
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Zao is life

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You left out Matthew 11:14 in your discussion of John the Baptist.
It's the same as Matthew 17:12, which I quoted.

Mat 11:14, KJV And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
Mat 11:14, YLT And if ye are willing to receive it , he is Elijah who was about to come;
Mat 11:14, MJKV And if you will receive it, this is Elijah who is to come.

Mat 17:10-13 And His disciples asked Him, saying, Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?
And answering Jesus said to them, Elijah truly shall come first and restore all things.
But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but have done to him whatever they desired. Likewise also the Son of man shall suffer from them.
Then His disciples understood that He spoke to them about John the Baptist.
 
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