God, Salvation, the Resurrection, the Gospel , the Person and work of Christ.

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Since this is a Christian Forum why is there so much discrepancy within these topics of core Christian Doctrines ?

I'm seeing this daily on the forum when Gods nature is being discussed, the 2 natures in Christ and His work, the bodily Resurrection, the gospel and what it is and is not and salvation/eternal life. These are what the Apostles/ ECF's gave their life for and what they contended for in the early church against all the heretical teachings in the first few centuries post Ascension.
 

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Because it's open to all Christians, whether affiliated with any denomination or congregation or not--and that's not counting critics and inquirers as well.

It would be almost impossible, under those conditions, for there not to be a wide range of opinions being voiced.
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Because it's open to all Christians, whether affiliated with any denomination or congregation or not--and that's not counting critics and inquirers as well.

It would be almost impossible, under those conditions, for there not to be a wide range of opinions being voiced.
I get that but I'm talking about "so-called" believers who are claiming to follow Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

mlepfitjw

May you be blessed!
Jun 23, 2020
1,620
1,093
Alabama
✟44,897.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
How can you judge, when you judge others by calling believers 'so-called' Christians?

I don't have a problem with you however your behavior in your responses disturb me in a way that it makes feel as though you are just dogmatic and as if you need everything to go your way.

In my life I have been that person too though, and desire to think that I understand. Could never hate you though that is for sure.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How can you judge, when you judge others by calling believers 'so-called' Christians?

I don't have a problem with you however your behavior in your responses disturb me in a way that it makes feel as though you are just dogmatic and as if you need everything to go your way.

In my life I have been that person too though, and desire to think that I understand. Could never hate you though that is for sure.
There are core/essential doctrines of the Christian Faith that have no room for compromise and are SALVIFIC in nature. Those mentioned in the OP are a few examples of such doctrines.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I get that but I'm talking about "so-called" believers who are claiming to follow Jesus.
Hmmm. Well, I've read some doctrinally strange stuff here, but I didn't think that pretenders were much of a problem. Maybe you have a sharper eye than I. ;)
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,188.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I get that but I'm talking about "so-called" believers who are claiming to follow Jesus.
I think that is the purpose of this sub-forum, providing the various heterodox groups a venue to present and defend their views and a venue where orthodox groups can discuss and refute the other views without bogging down all the other forums with these discussions.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0

mlepfitjw

May you be blessed!
Jun 23, 2020
1,620
1,093
Alabama
✟44,897.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There are core/essential doctrines of the Christian Faith that have no room for compromise and are SALVIFIC in nature. Those mentioned in the OP are a few examples of such doctrines.

Is there is no room for others have their own opinions or views?
What you may think is core/essential of your own faith may not be so for other people.

Because what most people believe, when it comes to the bible will choose their own personal way of individuality and their belief will not match up together with others.​

What we can agree on though is that through the Lord Jesus Christ and having faith on Him, and being raised again from the dead on the third day, there is no condemnation in a mans faith.

  1. Romans 10:9 If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
  2. Romans 8:1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
  3. 1 Corinthians 15:1 Let me now remind you, dear brothers and sisters, of the Good News I preached to you before. You welcomed it then, and you still stand firm in it. 2 It is this Good News that saves you if you continue to believe the message I told you—unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place.

And through love, there is the ability able to love anyone no matter what they decide to believe when it comes to the holy bible and the contents in them.
  1. Romans 12:18 Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone.
  2. Romans 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law.
  3. Philippians 2:3 Don’t be selfish; don’t try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves.
  4. 1 Corinthians 13:13 Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.
And because of all of these things I am telling you, the faith is subjective to an individual.
  1. I can't have my pastor with me on my death day to take blame for my own beliefs. I made my own choices to believe how I was going to subject myself to understanding.

The message of the Scriptures are always the same, have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and Love your neighbor as yourself. Who is our neighbor?

  1. 34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees with his reply, they met together to question him again. 35 One of them, an expert in religious law, tried to trap him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

    37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”
  2. The other one is to long to post but it is found in Luke Chapter 10 : V25-37

Every single person on earth.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,810
5,656
Utah
✟722,019.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Since this is a Christian Forum why is there so much discrepancy within these topics of core Christian Doctrines ?

I'm seeing this daily on the forum when Gods nature is being discussed, the 2 natures in Christ and His work, the bodily Resurrection, the gospel and what it is and is not and salvation/eternal life. These are what the Apostles/ ECF's gave their life for and what they contended for in the early church against all the heretical teachings in the first few centuries post Ascension.

False teachings were going on back then as well ... nothing new.

Each of us are supposed to study His Word ourselves and make certain what is being taught (no matter where it comes from) is in line with His Word.

Acts 17:11

English Standard Version
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

Heck ... many church goers don't even take their bibles to church with them ... don't study ... happy being "spoon fed" by their church ... don't verify anything.

Jesus himself was accused of heresy (not true of course), but I'm just saying .... why do you find these different teachings (doctrines) unusual? Nothing new under the sun.

It is good the variety of viewpoints are brought forth ... people should check them against His Word.

Each of us are personally responsible for what we believe. We should all be following the life of Jesus closely .... He is our example.

Romans 14:12
So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It's just not possible for one person to check everything. What about discipleship?
One cannot be a follower of Christ apart from being His Disciple. Jesus command was to make disciples of all the nations, not asking people to "accept" Christ as their savior. Thats modern day christianity, not biblical christianity.

A disciple is a learner/student by definition. Think of it as an apprenticeship. Like a new carpenter learning the trade to become a journeyman. As Christians we are disciples/learners who are students of the bible handling accurately the word of truth.

So one cannot be a christian apart from being a disciple.

A disciple will bear fruit like His master. No discipleship, no fruit.

hope this helps !!!
 
Upvote 0

Jesus is YHWH

my Lord and my God !
Site Supporter
Dec 15, 2011
3,496
1,726
✟389,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Is there is no room for others have their own opinions or views?
What you may think is core/essential of your own faith may not be so for other people.

Because what most people believe, when it comes to the bible will choose their own personal way of individuality and their belief will not match up together with others.​

What we can agree on though is that through the Lord Jesus Christ and having faith on Him, and being raised again from the dead on the third day, there is no condemnation in a mans faith.

  1. Romans 10:9 If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
  2. Romans 8:1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
  3. 1 Corinthians 15:1 Let me now remind you, dear brothers and sisters, of the Good News I preached to you before. You welcomed it then, and you still stand firm in it. 2 It is this Good News that saves you if you continue to believe the message I told you—unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place.

And through love, there is the ability able to love anyone no matter what they decide to believe when it comes to the holy bible and the contents in them.
  1. Romans 12:18 Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone.
  2. Romans 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law.
  3. Philippians 2:3 Don’t be selfish; don’t try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves.
  4. 1 Corinthians 13:13 Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.
And because of all of these things I am telling you, the faith is subjective to an individual.
  1. I can't have my pastor with me on my death day to take blame for my own beliefs. I made my own choices to believe how I was going to subject myself to understanding.

The message of the Scriptures are always the same, have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and Love your neighbor as yourself. Who is our neighbor?

  1. 34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees with his reply, they met together to question him again. 35 One of them, an expert in religious law, tried to trap him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

    37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”
  2. The other one is to long to post but it is found in Luke Chapter 10 : V25-37

Every single person on earth.
There are doctrines which are essential to the Christian Faith. One cannot deny them and be saved.

Essential Doctrines of Christianity

1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, and 3) Resurrection of Christ, 4) the gospel, and 5) monotheism. These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these five are the ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential. A non-regenerate person (i.e., Mormon or Jehovah's Witness, atheist, Muslim), will deny one or more of these essential doctrines. Please note that there are other derivative doctrines of scripture that become necessary also, the Trinity being one.

  1. The Deity of Christ
    1. Jesus is God in flesh (John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14). See also John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8
      1. 1 John 4:2-3: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
        1. The above verse needs to be cross referenced with John 1:1,14 (also written by John) where he states that the Word was God and the Word became flesh.
        2. 1 John 4:2-3 is saying that if you deny that Jesus is God in flesh then you are of the spirit of Antichrist.
      2. John 8:24, "I said, therefore, to you, that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am, you will die in your sins."
      3. Jesus said that if you do not believe "that I am" you will die in your sins. In Greek I am is 'ego eimi,' which means ‘I am.' These are the same words used in John 8:58, where Jesus says "...before Abraham was, I am." He was claiming the divine title by quoting Exodus 3:14.
        1. The Greek Septuagint is the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Greek, done by Jews around 250 B.C. They translated Exodus 3:14 as 'ego eimi' "I AM".)
    2. Jesus is the proper object of faith
      1. It is not simply enough to have faith. Faith is only as valid as the person in whom you put it. You must put your faith in the proper person. Cults have false objects of faith (false gods); therefore, their faith is useless -- no matter how sincere they are.
      2. If you put your faith in a guru, a philosopher, or a past teacher (and not Jesus) to save you from your sins on Judgment Day, then you will be in a lot of trouble, no matter how sincere or strong your faith is. You might have great faith, but so what? Faith in something false has the same effect as no faith at all.
    3. The Doctrine of the deity of Christ includes:
      1. The Trinity - There is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all coeternal and of the same nature.
      2. Monotheism - There is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8). Mormons believe that many gods exist, though they serve and worship only one. Therefore, they are polytheists which excludes them from the camp of Christianity.
    4. The Hypostatic Union - That Jesus is both God and man.
      1. The sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ - The sacrifice of Christ is completely sufficient to pay for the sins of the world and it is only through Jesus' sacrifice that anyone can be saved.
      2. As God - Only a perfect sacrifice to God is able to cleanse us from our sins. This is why Jesus, who is God in flesh, died for us.
        1. He had to die for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). Only God could do that.
      3. As man - Jesus must be man to be able to be a sacrifice for man.
        1. As a man He can be the mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5).
  2. Salvation by Grace
    1. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast," (Eph. 2:8-9, NIV).
    2. "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace" (Gal. 5:4).
      1. This verse and its context plainly teach that if you believe that you are saved by faith and works then you are not saved at all. This is a common error in the cults. Because they have a false Jesus, they have a false doctrine of salvation. (Read Rom. 3-5 and Gal. 3-5).
      2. You cannot add to the work of God. Gal. 2:21 says, "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (NIV)
    3. "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
      1. "However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).
      2. "Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law," (Gal. 3:21).
  3. The Resurrection of Christ
    1. "And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith," (1 Cor. 15:14). "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins," (1 Cor. 15:17).
    2. To deny the physical resurrection is to deny that Jesus' work was a satisfactory offering to God the Father. It would mean that Jesus was corrupt and needed to stay in the grave. But, he did not stay because his sacrifice was perfect.
    3. These verses clearly state that if you say that Jesus did not rise from the dead (in the same body He died in -- John 2:19-21), then your faith is useless.
  4. The Gospel
    1. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" (Gal. 1:8-9, NIV).
      1. Verses 8 and 9 here in Galatians are a self declarative statement that you must believe the gospel. The gospel message which in its entirety is that Jesus is God in flesh, who died for sins, rose from the dead, and freely gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe.
      2. Furthermore, it would not be possible to present the gospel properly without declaring that Jesus is God in flesh per John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8.
    2. 1 Cor. 15:1-4 defines what the gospel is: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures," (NIV).
      1. Within these verses are the essentials: Christ is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9); Salvation is received by faith (John 1:12; Rom. 10:9-10), therefore it is by grace; and the resurrection is mentioned in verse 4. Therefore, this gospel message automatically includes the essentials.
  5. Monotheism
    1. There is only one God (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8))
    2. “You shall have no other gods before Me. 4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments," (Exodus 20:3-6).
      1. We can see that God will visit iniquity on the descendents of those who do not follow the true and living God. CARM.org

hope this helps !!!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TheTrueWay

Active Member
Aug 7, 2020
125
109
Uk
✟28,515.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
One cannot be a follower of Christ apart from being His Disciple. Jesus command was to make disciples of all the nations, not asking people to "accept" Christ as their savior. Thats modern day christianity, not biblical christianity.

A disciple is a learner/student by definition. Think of it as an apprenticeship. Like a new carpenter learning the trade to become a journeyman. As Christians we are disciples/learners who are students of the bible handling accurately the word of truth.

So one cannot be a christian apart from being a disciple.

A disciple will bear fruit like His master. No discipleship, no fruit.

hope this helps !!!
Thank you, but I thought more mature students were to share with others. But at the moment, at least in my experience, it seems necessary to go outside of a church to study.
 
Upvote 0

mlepfitjw

May you be blessed!
Jun 23, 2020
1,620
1,093
Alabama
✟44,897.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Sorry, for you trying to make a strong solid point however I tend to side with freedom and letting others having a right to be able to think for themselves. When I think about God and look at all the freedom He gave Adam and Eve, at the very start.

I disagree, with you, so we will never see eye to eye, especially if you are going to be so dogmatic with your own ways. God bless you and your family, sir. @Jesus is YHWH Still look at you as a brother even though we disagree and that is okay! Hope you well on your way while you live on this earth, no hate!

I will agree that people are not given the full truth when it comes to some works of organizations, that says they must do this, or must do that to be saved, however when we are to look at Jesus Christ and put our faith on Him, because He is the one that has provided salvation for all men, through His bloodshed on the Cross.

It is not men trying their work their way to heaven instead it's men having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ because of His righteousness and not because of our own righteousness or because they think that they are doing good because it's always good/kindness of that comes through God that changes us as a person the more we look towards His Son Jesus Christ, who being our Lord, changes our heart. After we turn to God, and serve the living God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,534
4,827
57
Oregon
✟799,454.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
He recognized his sinfulness and need for forgiveness from the Son of God on the cross.

But did He understand and espouse the CORRECT view of Gods nature, the 2 natures in Christ and His work, the bodily Resurrection, the gospel and what it is and is not and salvation/eternal life?

If understanding, accepting and espousing the correct understanding of these are all Essential to ones salvation status, as is your claim... then the thief clearly fell short of being saved that day.... or, they're not essential salvific beliefs, and the fact he was saved that day, proves it.
 
Upvote 0

Running2win

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2020
738
464
64
St. Louis
✟25,393.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Since this is a Christian Forum why is there so much discrepancy within these topics of core Christian Doctrines ?

I'm seeing this daily on the forum when Gods nature is being discussed, the 2 natures in Christ and His work, the bodily Resurrection, the gospel and what it is and is not and salvation/eternal life. These are what the Apostles/ ECF's gave their life for and what they contended for in the early church against all the heretical teachings in the first few centuries post Ascension.

I believe it is a couple of things.

Different stages of growth. A baby cannot eat meat. :) You can't expect new Christians or those who have not done a lot of study to understand all the doctrines and how they fit together.

Now after a period of growth there is no excuse to not know the basics. If you start to disagree with the basics, have no real hunger for the word, and start to live like you did before salvation, you have to start wondering if it "took". Only 1/3 of all Christians are truly saved if we take this parable at face value, and deception will be worse in the last days.


18“Hear then the parable of the sower. 19“When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23“And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

1But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes’s and Jambres’s folly was also.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums