Praying to Jesus ??

Carl Emerson · Aug 4, 2020

Agallagher said:
Haha, that would mean simply loving others in their own decided choice in how they may believe.

There is no way in the world to resolve, or change ones mind on someone who is in their set belief, as far as where they place their faith. Other than to love them, regardless.

Does a person place their faith in doctrine, or in just the Lord Jesus Christ alone by dying and being rose again?

Of course when you read the Gospels when you can come to the conclusion alone, that God with us, was God with-in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The whole trinity topic is something that many people can be dogmatic and have it their own way because they have dedicated much time in affirming their set and predicated belief system.

In my opinion though God himself wouldn't care if you believed in a doctrine, He would desire us to believe on His Son and place faith on the one He raised again from the dead.

Yes I agree with you - for me I have come here to encourage and to learn.

For the record I believe that Jesus and the Father have the same name according to John 17. Sometimes I feel inspired to pray to the Father in Jesus name, sometimes to Jesus direct, I think both are valid.

I do my best to present topics without being adversarial.

mlepfitjw · Aug 4, 2020

deleted

Bible Highlighter · Aug 4, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Strange that posters are assuming my position when I have simply put the case that there are strong beliefs both ways - which this thread confirms.

I thought it might be fruitful to work the issue through as it is polarising the body.

I have presented two examples of praying to Jesus as promised, there may be more. These are Rev 22:20 and Acts 7:59.

So lets talk about it and see if we get some resolve...

Your position appears to be either an unknown or you are surprised that praying to Jesus is biblical. You said, I quote:

“Serious question...

Under what circumstances - if any - is praying to Jesus appropriate ???

~ Carl Emerson”

You said this was serious, and you emphasized the question marks suggesting that you do not believe praying to Jesus may not be appropriate or it is an unknown or something.

You said, I quote:

“So lets talk about it and see if we get some resolve.” ~ Carl Emerson

Meaning, you don't know, and you are hoping the discussion will resolve it for you. The Bible teaches that seeking forgiveness with Jesus by way of prayer is one component that leads to our salvation. For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13), and we learn that the Lord is Jesus (For 1 Corinthians 15:47 (KJV) says, “The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.” Note: Modern Translations remove the word “Lord” for this verse - which is wrong).

The other component is believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The word “repent” is to seek forgiveness with the Lord (i.e. the Lord Jesus) by way of prayer. The “fruits of repentance” (Which naturally followed by “repentance”) is putting away sin, and doing good works, living holy, etc.

mlepfitjw · Aug 4, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Yes I agree with you - for me I have come here to encourage and to learn.

For the record I believe that Jesus and the Father have the same name according to John 17. Sometimes I feel inspired to pray to the Father in Jesus name, sometimes to Jesus direct, I think both are valid.

I do my best to present topics without being adversarial.

Glad that I deleted my last message, when it comes to people who are older than myself. It seems they would know a lot more that me, and I like what you said here.

For the record I believe that Jesus and the Father have the same name according to John 17. Sometimes I feel inspired to pray to the Father in Jesus name, sometimes to Jesus direct, I think both are valid. - Carl

This view is totally correct and there is nothing wrong with talking to the Father and also the Lord Jesus too. They both have certainly done a whole lot for us here for the whole population.

Carl, there is much needed for me to grow in education, and learning and growing. Which won’t stop until the day I pass away. Thank you for your response to me, God and the Lord Jesus Christ are so good to us all.

Monksailor · Aug 4, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Under what circumstances - if any - is praying to Jesus appropriate ???

IMO: Jesus IS God. He called Himself "I AM" if there is any doubt. I pray to the God Father and God Son at various times, whenever I desire to and sometimes when facing them is NOT so desirable. God, Father and Son, are omnipresent and are love and have promised never to leave me or forsake me. There is NO time when it is inappropriate to pray to either, in Jesus' name, as it is the work of Jesus and our faith in His work on our behalf which avails either of them to us. My opinion and understanding of God's Word. Nic pic all you want. Anyone will NOT hinder my communion with my God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

1watchman · Aug 4, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Strange that posters are assuming my position when I have simply put the case that there are strong beliefs both ways - which this thread confirms.

I thought it might be fruitful to work the issue through as it is polarising the body.

I have presented two examples of praying to Jesus as promised, there may be more. These are Rev 22:20 and Acts 7:59.

So lets talk about it and see if we get some resolve...

You seem to mean well, Carl but allowing professing Christians to go on by-passing our Redeemer: "Jesus, the Christ of God", is NOT something we should want to encourage. We need to bring them back to Holy Scripture and see the Lord Jesus as presented in such as John 14. Yes, we can speak to our God directly, but need to acknowledge and thank Him at the same time for His "...beloved Son"; as ASK ALL in Jesus' Name. Many people speak of God, but do not know the Savior. Keep looking up!

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

1watchman said:
You seem to mean well, Carl but allowing professing Christians to go on by-passing our Redeemer: "Jesus, the Christ of God", is NOT something we should want to encourage. We need to bring them back to Holy Scripture and see the Lord Jesus as presented in such as John 14. Yes, we can speak to our God directly, but need to acknowledge and thank Him at the same time for His "...beloved Son"; as ASK ALL in Jesus' Name. Many people speak of God, but do not know the Savior. Keep looking up!

I appreciate your reply.

I must point out that encouraging folks to share and ponder on the responses is good.

What folks say is their responsibility. I have no control over that.

If it is wrong to encourage dialogue then we need to close down CF !!!

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Your position appears to be either an unknown or you are surprised that praying to Jesus is biblical. You said, I quote:

“Serious question...

Under what circumstances - if any - is praying to Jesus appropriate ???

~ Carl Emerson”
You said this was serious, and you emphasized the question marks suggesting that you do not believe praying to Jesus may not be appropriate or it is an unknown or something.

You said, I quote:

“So lets talk about it and see if we get some resolve.” ~ Carl Emerson
Meaning, you don't know, and you are hoping the discussion will resolve it for you.

To clarify, I have heard strong opinions both ways on this and it seems to be an important issue. I had hopes that we might have some good input and to some degree this has happened.

I try to promote not adversarial dialogue because folks are more likely to learn in an atmosphere of love.

There is a lovely verse worth pondering on...

"The seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace...

Monksailor · Aug 5, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
I appreciate your reply.

I must point out that encouraging folks to share and ponder on the responses is good.

What folks say is their responsibility. I have no control over that.

If it is wrong to encourage dialogue then we need to close down CF !!!

Is it wrong to word an OP in a way which encourages derision???

Bible Highlighter · Aug 5, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
To clarify, I have heard strong opinions both ways on this and it seems to be an important issue. I had hopes that we might have some good input and to some degree this has happened.

I try to promote not adversarial dialogue because folks are more likely to learn in an atmosphere of love.

There is a lovely verse worth pondering on...

"The seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace...

Jesus also said “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34). So those who make peace according to God's kingdom is not the same kind of peace that this world offers. God's truth is not the same as the truth given to us by this world. God's peace flows in harmony with the truth of His Word that runs contrary to world peace. Peace cannot be in opposition to the truth of His Word. Your beginning posts did not sound neutral (as seeing both sides as true), but they sounded like they sided against the fact that a person can pray to Jesus. Why? Because...

(a) You asked if we can pray to Jesus and said this was a serious question.
(b) You added “???” at the end of your question as an added emphasis on the question to suggest that this sounds shocking to you or it seems doubtful. The multiple question mark does not sound like it is a neutral question.
(c) You did not offer any counter supporting evidence in your OP of how you can see that praying to Jesus is biblical.

But Scripture does clearly teach that one component of our initial salvation is to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ by way of prayer (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 10:13) (1 Corinthians 15:47 KJV). To not understand this is to not understand the basics of how believers first get saved. It's essential and key to every Christian life and their salvation. I say this not to wound you, dear sir; But I say this so as to simply show you the plain and simple truth of what His Word says. One either accepts the truth in His Word, or they will run contrary to what His Word says. It is my hope that you will keep seeking the truth on this matter in Scripture with the Lord's help in all genuineness.

May God's blessings be upon you today.

Bible Highlighter · Aug 5, 2020

Praying to Jesus in Scripture:

We are to call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord:

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:” (1 Corinthians 1:2).

We are to make melody in our hearts to the Lord Jesus.

19 “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;” (Ephesians 5:19-20).

Note: Verse 19 says that we are to make melody in our hearts to the Lord, and verse 20 clarifies that the Lord here is Jesus. Also, verse 19 is about singing to the Lord (i.e. the Lord Jesus), and verse 20 is about giving thanks to God the Father in the name of Jesus.

John writes in the book of Revelation his own words to Jesus that says, “Even so come, Lord Jesus.”

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.” (Revelation 22:20).

Stephen called upon God and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

“And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying,
Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
(Acts of the Apostles 7:59).

Paul tells Timothy of how he thanks Jesus.

“And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; (1 Timothy 1:12).

Romans 10:9 says we are to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus (as a part of our salvation), and Romans 10:13 continues to talk about this same Lord in context and says whoever shall upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:9-13).

Note: Philippians 2:11 says, “And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Romans 10:13 is referring to how we are initially saved. It is saying that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus shall be saved. This is naturally by way of prayer.

1 John 2:1 says,

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” (1 John 2:1).

In just two verses prior in 1 John 1:9 in context, it says,

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).

These verses should help to illustrate that praying to Jesus is clearly biblical. Romans 10:13, and 1 John 1:9 show that praying to Jesus is essential to our salvation.

Monksailor · Aug 5, 2020

Here is over 100 verses relative to Jesus being our FRIEND, many of which He, Himself, Jesus, identifies us believers as His friends: What Does the Bible Say About Jesus As A Friend? What is a friend if one cannot go and talk to them any time they want?

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

Monksailor said:
Is it wrong to word an OP in a way which encourages derision???

Can I suggest you ask this question on a different thread, this is off topic.

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus also said “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34). So those who make peace according to God's kingdom is not the same kind of peace that this world offers. God's truth is not the same as the truth given to us by this world. God's peace flows in harmony with the truth of His Word that runs contrary to world peace. Peace cannot be in opposition to the truth of His Word. Your beginning posts did not sound neutral (as seeing both sides as true), but they sounded like they sided against the fact that a person can pray to Jesus. Why? Because...

(a) You asked if we can pray to Jesus and said this was a serious question.
(b) You added “???” at the end of your question as an added emphasis on the question to suggest that this sounds shocking to you or it seems doubtful. The multiple question mark does not sound like it is a neutral question.
(c) You did not offer any counter supporting evidence in your OP of how you can see that praying to Jesus is biblical.

But Scripture does clearly teach that one component of our initial salvation is to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ by way of prayer (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 10:13) (1 Corinthians 15:47 KJV). To not understand this is to not understand the basics of how believers first get saved. It's essential and key to every Christian life and their salvation. I say this not to wound you, dear sir; But I say this so as to simply show you the plain and simple truth of what His Word says. One either accepts the truth in His Word, or they will run contrary to what His Word says. It is my hope that you will keep seeking the truth on this matter in Scripture with the Lord's help in all genuineness.

May God's blessings be upon you today.

You make some very good points - thank you for this.

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Praying to Jesus in Scripture:

We are to call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord:

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:” (1 Corinthians 1:2).

We are to make melody in our hearts to the Lord Jesus.

19 “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;” (Ephesians 5:19-20).

Note: Verse 19 says that we are to make melody in our hearts to the Lord, and verse 20 clarifies that the Lord here is Jesus. Also, verse 19 is about singing to the Lord (i.e. the Lord Jesus), and verse 20 is about giving thanks to God the Father in the name of Jesus.

John writes in the book of Revelation his own words to Jesus that says, “Even so come, Lord Jesus.”

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.” (Revelation 22:20).

Stephen called upon God and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

“And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying,
Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
(Acts of the Apostles 7:59).

Paul tells Timothy of how he thanks Jesus.

“And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; (1 Timothy 1:12).

Romans 10:9 says we are to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus (as a part of our salvation), and Romans 10:13 continues to talk about this same Lord in context and says whoever shall upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:9-13).

Note: Philippians 2:11 says, “And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Romans 10:13 is referring to how we are initially saved. It is saying that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus shall be saved. This is naturally by way of prayer.

1 John 2:1 says,

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” (1 John 2:1).

In just two verses prior in 1 John 1:9 in context, it says,

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).

These verses should help to illustrate that praying to Jesus is clearly biblical. Romans 10:13, and 1 John 1:9 show that praying to Jesus is essential to our salvation.

Thank you - appreciate you effort in putting this together.

Monksailor · Aug 5, 2020

Carl Emerson said:
Serious question...

Under what circumstances - if any - is praying to Jesus appropriate ???

Labeling my comment on how you worded your OP as "Off Topic" is a very far reach and does not even touch a logical statement my brother. You actually suggested that praying to Jesus may not even be appropriate in ANY case by the way in which you chose to word your OP. That is blasphemy, to me and TOTALLY WRONG to MANY in the Christian realm and you know it. Your intent of this OP was to create derision or division to some degree and SOMETIMES such IS called for in order to wake up the complacent but NOT in this case. It is CLEARLY obvious in God's Word as already shown here that it IS appropriate to pray to Jesus and there is absolutely NO place where such is limited in God's Holy Word.

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

Monksailor said:
Here is over 100 verses relative to Jesus being our FRIEND, many of which He, Himself, Jesus, identifies us believers as His friends: What Does the Bible Say About Jesus As A Friend? What is a friend if one cannot go and talk to them any time they want?

Yes - excellent point, yet to believe one must only pray to the Father in Jesus name is quite a common position to hold.

I am wondering if it is more common in liturgical churches ??

My son is studying for the Anglican clergy and holds this position.

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

Monksailor said:
Labeling my comment on how you worded your OP as "Off Topic" is a very far reach and does not even touch a logical statement my brother. You actually suggested that praying to Jesus may not even be appropriate in ANY case by the way in which you chose to word your OP. That is blasphemy, to me and TOTALLY WRONG to MANY in the Christian realm and you know it. Your intent of this OP was to create derision or division to some degree and SOMETIMES such IS called for in order to wake up the complacent but NOT in this case. It is CLEARLY obvious in God's Word as already shown here that it IS appropriate to pray to Jesus and there is absolutely NO place where such is limited in God's Holy Word.

I will state once more that when I put the topic I presented two different prevailing opinions and purposely did not initially disclose my opinion. This is because although I have about 60 years of reading scripture, I am still open to learning.

I genuinely was interested in the case for both perspectives.

I expected that we would learn from hearing the case made from both sides in a civil manner, and others would as well.

I am astounded that presenting different perspectives in a non adversarial way has elicited so much offence even to the extent of accusations of blasphemy !!!

If we cant discuss issues without swords flying and blood letting (proverbially) there is something seriously wrong. Think Jerusalem Council - very civil.

If my style challenges the aggressive culture here on CF so be it - I am a man of peace and if you don't like my threads do not feel compelled to participate.

For the sake of the readers I have responded to your accusations but as I said - this is not the topic of the thread - so if you want to discuss this further feel free to raise this issue elsewhere.

Back to topic.

For years I have heard it put that we should only pray to the Father in Jesus Name - I welcome scriptural support for this position.

ViaCrucis · Aug 5, 2020

The Church has always prayed to the Father.
The Church has always prayed to the Son.
The Church has always prayed to the Holy Spirit.

This is evidenced from the earliest days of Christianity, as seen in the instance of St. Stephen the Protomartyr praying to Christ.

Indeed, it is because the Church has always prayed to Christ that theological debates over Christ's relationship to the Father were shaped. This is why, so often, the heretics cannot deny that we pray to the Son, and so they try to argue in other ways. The Adoptionists tried to argue that while Christ was not always God, He became God in the resurrection and ascension, and therefore prayer to Christ is acceptable because Jesus is divine, He just became divine later. The Sabellians tried to argue that Christ is, in fact the Father, they confuse and conflate the Divine Persons, but do not deny prayer to Christ. Even the Arians could not deny prayer to Christ, though they taught that Christ was a lesser, junior God to the Father.

But we who confess the true faith confess the one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, as eternally begotten of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not made, of one-being with the Father, through whom all things were made.

And thus the Church also always confesses and prays,

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end. Amen.

For "we believe in one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the Substance."

-CryptoLutheran

Carl Emerson · Aug 5, 2020

Thanks VC, very helpful.

Apart from relating to the trinity in unity can you think of any scriptural support for praying to the Holy Spirit?

Praying to Jesus ??

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