For those who struggle with transubstantiation

Victor in Christ said:

Why would Flannery O'Connor or anyone want to eat the earthly flesh Christ had to cloth himself with for our sins and transgressions? The flesh of this world is not our destiny. Christ was talking spiritually to his disciples, they had a very hard time understanding it because they were accustomed to earthly things, lead by evil men of the 2nd Temple.

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I reiterate that the disciples who had a hard time accepting what Jesus said ended up walking away and walked with him no more. They understood what he was saying. They just didn't like it. Which is why Jesus didn't run and chase them down and explain how it was all just a metaphor. They left and never came back. Everybody knew it was not a metaphor.

Victor in Christ said:

I've finished the link, it's wordage added onto wordage. Man using his own intelligence to convince others a certain Pope or tradition that was invented is actually the teaching of Christ to his disciples.

If you really want to prove the physical literal earthly body of Christ is present in the Eucherist, please dig out an archive from the Vatican library from the 'first Pope' Peter or some other Saint of his day which clearly says so.

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I'll go with what Jesus says in John 6. But if you don't believe Jesus I don't think you will believe any pope or saint either.

VincentIII said:

For those who struggle with the concept of eating the Lord's flesh and drinking his blood (the remaining physical appearance of bread and wine being an accident) because it can come across as cannibalism, what would you say to help them get past that objection? We can of course say that we must faithfully reconcile ourselves with it because it's what Jesus instructs us to do, but some people will want some measure of philosophical explanation for why it "makes sense."

Looking at it another way, let's say a non-Christian learns that you're Catholic and asks if you personally believe you're really consuming Jesus's actual flesh and blood. You answer that you believe it, and they ask how you could participate in something like that. How do you answer?

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As a Catholic I always struggled with the scripture that follows this.
It seems to say to the disciples and does say that the flesh means nothing and that he is talking about the spirit and life.

60When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father

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chevyontheriver said:

I'll go with what Jesus says in John 6. But if you don't believe Jesus I don't think you will believe any pope or saint either.

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I'll go with Jesus also. He left this earth and the disciples were to remember him through spirit, not in his physical flesh. That's the same promise we must live by as Christians.

god Bless

This has been very thinly veiled debate here in OBOB about transubstantiation. I can’t believe it has gone on this long.

OK Folks

I would remind all that this is OBOB - a Catholic board and debate by non-Catholics is against the SoP Statement of Faith - OBOB Statement of Purpose

Non-Catholics are very welcome to post in fellowship - but they may not post against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I would be most grateful if non-Catholics would abide by the SoP

Anhelyna - Senior Ambassador Member

Michie said:

This has been very thinly veiled debate here in OBOB about transubstantiation. I can’t believe it has gone on this long.

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Yes. It was. Looks like it's wrapped up now.

chevyontheriver said:

I'll go with what Jesus says in John 6. But if you don't believe Jesus I don't think you will believe any pope or saint either.

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Here's what Jesus DID NOT SAY:

On the Sea of Tiberias, Jesus announced, “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” The crowds were offended. In their murmuring, they tried to shout him down and silence him. Seeing their offense, Jesus backed down, saying meekly, “I am sorry you feel that way. I apologize for inflicting you with traumatic microaggressions. My words were triggering and prompted reflection on my part to be better. I meant it as a metaphor and went too far. In the future, I will be more aware of your sensitivities.” In a public statement, he posted that he would consult with his twelve apostles to vet his statements for anything remotely offensive.

This is a Hard Saying — Who Can Listen To It?

Victor in Christ said:

I have no desire to be offensive, but the clue is in the thread title. Transubstantiation has been discussed because its in the thread title and many Christians have trouble with the earthly/fleshy element of the sacrament and even other aspects, like who on earth has the power to transform it, etc.

please don't take this as trying to be offensive.

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Please don't think this is offensive to mention again that many disciples walked away from Jesus because they found his teaching on being the bread of life problematical. And look at post 50, where the kind of non-problematical Jesus would clear up the problem. The real Jesus didn't assuage the offended sensibilities of his former followers. He doubled down with those who remained. And those who remained were those who accepted the Real Presence of JEsus in the Eucharist. The rest no longer followed Jesus.

The problem you are coming up against here is that you are trying to teach a different doctrine. This is the Catholic forum. This is not a place where other folks can teach other doctrines. We have been very kind to you here. But the ice you are skating on here is thin based on the words of Jesus, and based on a nearly 2000 year old teaching. You are trying to teach something other than original Christianity. Or so it seems. We don't allow that here.

I'm sorry if i've offended. I will stay clear from your transubstantiation threads in your section. I hope you will allow me to participate in OBOB section on other topics.

Romans 8:28

god bless

You are free to fellowship here but you cannot debate or teach against our beliefs and practices here. The SOP will help you out.

Victor in Christ said:

I'm sorry if i've offended. I will stay clear from your transubstantiation threads in your section. I hope you will allow me to participate in OBOB section on other topics.

Romans 8:28

god bless

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