Cuomo: 'How much is a human life worth?'

ArmenianJohn

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Cuomo: 'How much is a human life worth?' :: WRAL.com

This is the question that has to be answered. I think many feel a human life is worth very little money. Being pro-life myself, I think the highest value should be placed on human life even at the sacrifice of money.
 
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evoeth

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Cuomo: 'How much is a human life worth?' :: WRAL.com

This is the question that has to be answered. I think many feel a human life is worth very little money. Being pro-life myself, I think the highest value should be placed on human life even at the sacrifice of money.

Value of a statistical life in the US is $9-10m

The value of covid deaths is much lower since the number of life years lost by old people is much less.
 
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I think to help answer this question we need to ask the question of how much God is worth.

"Then God said, "Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them... And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning the sixth day. (ESV) Genesis 1:26-27, 31

Then we can question how much something that was made in the image of God is worth.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Cuomo: 'How much is a human life worth?' :: WRAL.com

This is the question that has to be answered. I think many feel a human life is worth very little money. Being pro-life myself, I think the highest value should be placed on human life even at the sacrifice of money.

Human life is precious. The problem we have presently is not a question of either preserving or not preserving human life but how we decide what course of action preserves more human life than the other courses of action we might take. I do not however, thing the highest value should be placed upon our extending out worldly life. Though that does outrank money IMO by a very large margin.
 
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Value of a statistical life in the US is $9-10m

The value of covid deaths is much lower since the number of life years lost by old people is much less.

No one should be willing to agree that we should start counting older peoples lives as worth less than younger ones.

We don't for instance send the elderly to fight wars.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Cuomo: 'How much is a human life worth?' :: WRAL.com

This is the question that has to be answered. I think many feel a human life is worth very little money. Being pro-life myself, I think the highest value should be placed on human life even at the sacrifice of money.
Money before life it seems. But a fetus under 12 weeks and a brain dead fetus, baby and person is worth every thing. But protecting people from COVID-19. Who cares. If they die it's because they are old, or had a pre-existing condition. This is what I'm getting, from the right.
 
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Cuomo: 'How much is a human life worth?' :: WRAL.com

This is the question that has to be answered. I think many feel a human life is worth very little money. Being pro-life myself, I think the highest value should be placed on human life even at the sacrifice of money.

What if the parents have no money to spend on childcare? It is not about how they choose to spend their money, but if they even have money to spend, for many women and girls who get abortions.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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...not sure why Cuomo keeps insisting on use those types of talking points.

If he sincerely feels that way, then he's in the wrong line of work as the majority public policy making involves weighing out the countervailing interests of human lives vs. economic health.

Why he insists on pretending that the same sort of decisions shouldn't be made about Covid-19 leads me to believe that a) he knows that talking point is nonsense, but it gets him a cheap pop from his fan base on social media, b) he honestly doesn't understand that every public policy made involves weighing human lives/health vs. overall economic health.

When a governor allows automobiles to be operated in their state, they're saying that a certain number of casualties are "an acceptable risk" in order to reap the economic benefits of people and businesses having access to motorized transportation.

With very few exceptions, you'd be hard pressed to think of a public policy that doesn't have a benefit:risk trade-off.


Not to mention, people who insist that mass unemployment is worth it "to save lives" are clearly looking at the overall data with a very narrow lens considering that there's some very solid historical data that shows a direct causal (and linear) relationship between unemployment/financial hardship and the suicide rate.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...3/will-covid-19-make-the-suicide-crisis-worse

COVID-19 Is Likely to Lead to an Increase in Suicides

Unemployment is a well-established risk factor for suicide. In fact, 1 in 3 people who die by suicide are unemployed at the time of their deaths. For every one-point increase in the unemployment rate, the suicide rate tends to increase .78 per 100,000.

...not to mention the uptick in both destructive behavior (drug use), and crime that go along with high unemployment rates as well.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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...not sure why Cuomo keeps insisting on use those types of talking points.

If he sincerely feels that way, then he's in the wrong line of work as the majority public policy making involves weighing out the countervailing interests of human lives vs. economic health.

Why he insists on pretending that the same sort of decisions shouldn't be made about Covid-19 leads me to believe that a) he knows that talking point is nonsense, but it gets him a cheap pop from his fan base on social media, b) he honestly doesn't understand that every public policy made involves weighing human lives/health vs. overall economic health.

When a governor allows automobiles to be operated in their state, they're saying that a certain number of casualties are "an acceptable risk" in order to reap the economic benefits of people and businesses having access to motorized transportation.

With very few exceptions, you'd be hard pressed to think of a public policy that doesn't have a benefit:risk trade-off.


Not to mention, people who insist that mass unemployment is worth it "to save lives" are clearly looking at the overall data with a very narrow lens considering that there's some very solid historical data that shows a direct causal (and linear) relationship between unemployment/financial hardship and the suicide rate.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...3/will-covid-19-make-the-suicide-crisis-worse

COVID-19 Is Likely to Lead to an Increase in Suicides

Unemployment is a well-established risk factor for suicide. In fact, 1 in 3 people who die by suicide are unemployed at the time of their deaths. For every one-point increase in the unemployment rate, the suicide rate tends to increase .78 per 100,000.

...not to mention the uptick in both destructive behavior (drug use), and crime that go along with high unemployment rates as well.

Just yesterday, for every 100,000 Americans (infected AND not infected) 0.74 died from the corona virus. That was in just one day. The potential suicide rate increase would 0.78 of 100,000 over the course of a year would take a year to get. It pale in comparison to what the corona virus is currently doing.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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In politics human life isn't sacroscant to the point where you make no risks with large populations.

It's a fanciful idea but not one that works out In reality. If you want to continue depriving people of the ability to work and live as usual then you are inviting other risks you view as more acceptable than Wuhan Flu death. The potentiality for suicide will increase as people loose their livelihoods and savings.

One way or the other people are at risk and are going to die and Cuomo probably knows this along with every other politician.
 
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Cuomo: 'How much is a human life worth?' :: WRAL.com

This is the question that has to be answered. I think many feel a human life is worth very little money. Being pro-life myself, I think the highest value should be placed on human life even at the sacrifice of money.

Cuomo needs to be careful asking questions like that -- he's speaking rhetorically, but on the other side of the aisle, the GOP's crunching the numbers.

HINT: If you're bigger than a fetus or smaller than a corporation, expect to get lowballed.
 
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Just yesterday, for every 100,000 Americans (infected AND not infected) 0.74 died from the corona virus. That was in just one day. The potential suicide rate increase would 0.78 of 100,000 over the course of a year would take a year to get. It pale in comparison to what the corona virus is currently doing.

"over the course of the year" isn't how you calculate that.

Economic impacts don't just magically go away in a snap.

The economic impacts people are facing will likely be haunting some folks for 2-5 years.

...but even that aside. If Cuomo really does have the position that "every life is worth saving no matter what the economic impacts", why hasn't he banned cars in the state of NY?

That would certainly save lives, yes?

...about 40,000 per year based on current numbers.

Why are lives lost in automobile accidents "the cost of doing business", but lives lost to covid are not?


His position also fails to acknowledge the pragmatic reality that "Human well being" isn't a simple line that neatly bisects "alive"/"dead" and there are varying degrees of human cost (up to and including death).

If you make a policy that saves 3 lives, but results in 20,000 people having their lives ruined and living in utter misery (hunger and poverty), any reasonable policy maker would call that policy a failure.

The far left seems to understand "the misery index" fairly well when it's not presented in the context of comparing Covid to something else.

From an overall policy standpoint (for keeping a functioning society), 26 million people losing their jobs is worse than 100,000 people losing their lives.

Any policy maker that claims to not acknowledge this is either A) being deliberately disingenuous for political reasons, or B) isn't worth their salt as a policy maker.

In Cuomo's case, it's A. He's not a stupid guy. He's been in politics for decades (as has his family, and the family he married into). He understands the concepts of benefit:risk trade-off.

Which is precisely why he hasn't banned a number of different things (that carry potential risks, up to and including death) that provide a net positive financial impact on his states' economy.


I already mentioned the automobile example (that causes 40k deaths in the US anually)

There are a lot of wineries and craft breweries in his state that draw tourism and revenue to this state's coffers... alcohol related deaths cause 90k deaths per year.

He allows tobacco to be sold in his state, nationwide, that's 500,000 deaths.

He allows unhealthy food to be sold in his state...that comes with a "human lives price tag"


Not singling him out for those aspects, every governor does... However, what every governor doesn't do, is trot out some sob story about how "if it saves even one life, it's worth it no matter the economic cost"...while allowing a number of other things that are linked to loss of human life.


If he had banned cars, tobacco, alcohol, and unhealthy food in his state over the last five years, I may more willing to believe his talking point. But he hasn't, so I don't...
 
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loveofourlord

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"over the course of the year" isn't how you calculate that.

Economic impacts don't just magically go away in a snap.

The economic impacts people are facing will likely be haunting some folks for 2-5 years.

...but even that aside. If Cuomo really does have the position that "every life is worth saving no matter what the economic impacts", why hasn't he banned cars in the state of NY?

That would certainly save lives, yes?

...about 40,000 per year based on current numbers.

Why are lives lost in automobile accidents "the cost of doing business", but lives lost to covid are not?


His position also fails to acknowledge the pragmatic reality that "Human well being" isn't a simple line that neatly bisects "alive"/"dead" and there are varying degrees of human cost (up to and including death).

If you make a policy that saves 3 lives, but results in 20,000 people having their lives ruined and living in utter misery (hunger and poverty), any reasonable policy maker would call that policy a failure.

The far left seems to understand "the misery index" fairly well when it's not presented in the context of comparing Covid to something else.

From an overall policy standpoint (for keeping a functioning society), 26 million people losing their jobs is worse than 100,000 people losing their lives.

Any policy maker that claims to not acknowledge this is either A) being deliberately disingenuous for political reasons, or B) isn't worth their salt as a policy maker.

In Cuomo's case, it's A. He's not a stupid guy. He's been in politics for decades (as has his family, and the family he married into). He understands the concepts of benefit:risk trade-off.

Which is precisely why he hasn't banned a number of different things (that carry potential risks, up to and including death) that provide a net positive financial impact on his states' economy.


I already mentioned the automobile example (that causes 40k deaths in the US anually)

There are a lot of wineries and craft breweries in his state that draw tourism and revenue to this state's coffers... alcohol related deaths cause 90k deaths per year.

He allows tobacco to be sold in his state, nationwide, that's 500,000 deaths.

He allows unhealthy food to be sold in his state...that comes with a "human lives price tag"


Not singling him out for those aspects, every governor does... However, what every governor doesn't do, is trot out some sob story about how "if it saves even one life, it's worth it no matter the economic cost"...while allowing a number of other things that are linked to loss of human life.


If he had banned cars, tobacco, alcohol, and unhealthy food in his state over the last five years, I may more willing to believe his talking point. But he hasn't, so I don't...

economic impacts don't just magickally go away when you re-open the economy when many of the economic impacts have nothing to do with the economy being closed. this whole, we will fix the economy by allowing 4k+ people to die a day is nonsense, a lot of people don't go to death BECAUSE there is 2k deaths a day and not because of lack of work, and 4k will just increase it.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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economic impacts don't just magickally go away when you re-open the economy when many of the economic impacts have nothing to do with the economy being closed. this whole, we will fix the economy by allowing 4k+ people to die a day is nonsense, a lot of people don't go to death BECAUSE there is 2k deaths a day and not because of lack of work, and 4k will just increase it.

Correct, they don't just magically go away (which, If I'm not mistaken, I said in my post)

My point was that allowing 26 million people to become unemployed and face economic ruin has to be part of the consideration when evaluating this.

In terms of "human cost"...just out of curiosity, how many people/families losing their incomes and homes equate to the loss of one human life in your opinion?

...and no vague answers or generic platitudes as a response...hard numbers only please.

Is it 20, 30, 50, 50000...what?
 
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loveofourlord

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Correct, they don't just magically go away (which, If I'm not mistaken, I said in my post)

My point was that allowing 26 million people to become unemployed and face economic ruin has to be part of the consideration when evaluating this.

In terms of "human cost"...just out of curiosity, how many people/families losing their incomes and homes equate to the loss of one human life in your opinion?

...and no vague answers or generic platitudes as a response...hard numbers only please.

Is it 20, 30, 50, 50000...what?

Well no, your point is this is because of the economy being shutdown, my point is it's less to do with the economy shutdown and more to do with some scare mongering rumour of 2k people dying a day.

And no your questions are invalid, it's still the same false dichtomy we've had for 2 months now. it's not, "Close economy and it fails and we save lives, or we keep the economy open and let people die." the economy is in trouble either way. Many people that have lost jobs, would have lost them no matter what we do. Making the economy open won't magickally make people return to work, nor would have keeping the economy open have prevented them from closing.

You and others are under this nonsense premise that if the economy had remained open we not be in this position we are in, guess what we would have been in the same place if not worse because now you have more deaths and it's much harder to contain.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Making the economy open won't magickally make people return to work, nor would have keeping the economy open have prevented them from closing.

You and others are under this nonsense premise that if the economy had remained open we not be in this position we are in, guess what we would have been in the same place if not worse because now you have more deaths and it's much harder to contain.

...actually, what you're saying isn't true at all.

There are many folks (and businesses) would've been happy to keep working with reasonable precautions and social distancing measures put in place.

You ask any small restaurant owner or local business: "Would you rather lay off your staff and stay completely shut down for 2 months, or would you rather be allowed to operate with a few additional rules at 25% capacity for a month, and scale up from there", you'd be hard pressed to find someone to go with the former...

For the record, I think reasonable social distancing measures are the right call.

My point in my post (if you read it carefully) is that Cuomo is (for the sake of scoring brownie points within a certain political faction) pretending to not understand the countervailing interests and benefit:risk trade-off that comes along with policy making.

Every governor, congressman, president, mayor, etc... makes those types of decisions with regards to every aspect of human life and economics.

If he truly believed in the "no matter what the economic cost, government intervention is worth it if it save even one life" slogan...he would've banned alcohol, tobacco, and McDonald's in his state.

He hasn't done that. Why?... because he understands the economic benefits those things bring to his state and is willing to accept a certain body in order to keep a certain number of people employed and provide an economic benefit.
 
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