Most of us all agree Gal. 3:23 is not saying there was no faith in the OT, so then what about works?

Charlie24 · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
It may be an idea for people to tell us exactly what works will enable us to get to Heaven. What do they themselves believe are works that will justify their entry into heaven?
Would they consider obeying Jesus commands are works that will enable them to enter Heaven? Would they then consider they must lend to their enemies, those who may hate them without ever expecting anything back? Would they consider they must give to anyone who steals from them more besides what they stole, loving them whilst doing so? Would they consider without truly in their hearts loving those who may persecute them bar them from heaven as this would be failure to do a work? Would they consider failure to leap for joy when they are persecuted a lack of work that could bar them from Heaven? Just wondered what the benchmark is here as to works needed to enter heaven

That's a good question.

There are many ways some find a way to present good works for salvation.

In this case I'm discussing, it's the works of sanctification needed for salvation.

I often wonder as you do, how much of it is needed to get there?

Maybe Bible Highlighter can tell us?

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I know it's hard to give up works as a part of salvation.

Got to work somewhat for it, right!

Rom. 11:5-6
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

I know its hard for you to give up a sin and still be saved type belief. What is more comforting in that one is forgiven of future sin and that one has a safety net to sin on some level. No need to raise a finger for your Lord, or put away sin out of one's life. One is once saved always saved. Party it up in the Lord and do not worry about your salvation because you got a belief alone on Jesus. But I am afraid for folks who think this way. They have no understanding on what Matthew 7:23 and Matthew 7:26-27 says, and Matthew 13:41-42. Jesus is going to send forth his angels and they are going to gather out of HIS Kingdom those professing believers who worked iniquity or sin, and they will be cast into the furnace of fire. While I believe I am 100% correct on this topic, even if there was a 1% that I could be right, you owe it to yourself to research the truth on this out of love for your own soul, and the souls of others. Why play games with your soul on the chance that you could be wrong? There are so many warnings in Scripture against how the believer can be condemned by God if they do not confess and forsake such sins.

As for Romans 11:5-6:

Well, first, Romans 9-11 is dealing with the salvation of Israel on a national level and how they need to accept God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This is where salvation starts. God's grace. A person seeks forgiveness with Jesus (Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14, Ephesians 2:8-9), and the believe the gospel (Which is believing in His death, burial, and resurrection on their behalf for salvation - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

In verse 6: Paul is referring to being saved by God's grace (Which is a process of salvation that is based upon God's mercy and not in anything that we have done - Titus 3:5; Note: Titus 3:5 is referring to Initial Salvation, See: Titus 3:3-4 for the context on this fact).

Second, the Jewish nation (at the time of Paul) or the Pharisees had their own religion that was not of God. Paul says this:

13 "For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace" (Galatians 1:13-15).

The Jews taught certain believers wrongfully that they have to be circumcised and keep the Old Law (the 613 laws of Moses) to be saved.

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

This was a certain sect of Pharisees that taught them this:

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

But the apostles gave them no such commandment that the Gentile believers needed to be circumcised in order to be saved.

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

Now, think for a moment. If a person believed they had to first be saved by being circumcised according to the Old Testament Law of Moses, then they are making the "Law" or "works" the basis for their salvation, and not God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Their salvation would rest upon "Works Alone" by being circumcised. This is what Paul meant when he said that if it be of works it is no more grace. Grace was not available to the Christian who would go back to the Law in being circumcised in order to be saved.

eternally thankful · Mar 4, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I often wonder as you do, how much of it is needed to get there?

Yes, if people don't know, how can they have any peace or assurity of their salvation?

Many-in reality preach a salvation that hinges on not committing sin. Therefore, you are righteous/justified in God's sight if you do not sin. As sin is the transgression of the law, it is the same as saying: You are righteous/justified before God if you obey the law. As I am sure you know, this contradicts Paul's main Gospel message.
In my experience, beware of those who preach righteousness of obeying the law. I knew one women who was immaculately dressed each week she went to church. If the minister said something she approved of she gave a hearty AMEN. She tithed her money and attended all the church meetings, and insisted you must obey the ten commandments if you want to attain to heaven. However, I later found out she was having multiple affairs at the same time. Her excuse? All sin is equal and no one is perfect

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

Charlie24 said:
That's a good question.

There are many ways some find a way to present good works for salvation.

In this case I'm discussing, it's the works of sanctification needed for salvation.

I often wonder as you do, how much of it is needed to get there?

Maybe Bible Highlighter can tell us?

God wants us to be faithful over at least a few things.

"His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:21).

But the person who is the unprofitable servant will hear not enter the Kingdom, but they will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. For Jesus said,

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

Does this mean we can just do good works and then not worry about serious sin in our lives?

No.

Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.
In Matthew 7:23, certain believers who did wonderful works in Christ's name were told to depart from Him by the Lord Jesus Himself because they worked iniquity or sin. They justified sin in some way involving God's grace. But the real grace as described in the Bible says in Titus 2:11-12 that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

The reason why Christ did not know those believers in Matthew 7:23 was because they justified sin or disobeyed His commands. 1 John 2:3 says we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments. 1 John 2:4 says that the person who states that they know the Lord and yet they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar, and the truth is not in them.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
Yes, if people don't know, how can they have any peace or assurity of their salvation?

Many-in reality preach a salvation that hinges on not committing sin. Therefore, you are righteous/justified in God's sight if you do not sin. As sin is the transgression of the law, it is the same as saying: You are righteous/justified before God if you obey the law. As I am sure you know, this contradicts Paul's main Gospel message.
In my experience, beware of those who preach righteousness of obeying the law. I knew one women who was immaculately dressed each week she went to church. If the minister said something she approved of she gave a hearty AMEN. She tithed her money and attended all the church meetings, and insisted you must obey the ten commandments if you want to attain to heaven. However, I later found out she was having multiple affairs at the same time. Her excuse? All sin is equal and no one is perfect

So she really did not believe in keeping God's laws for salvation (After being saved by God's grace). She believed that she is saved by God's grace alone (despite their sin) like the majority of churches today. We are living in the last days. Men today are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; They have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof (See: 2 Timothy 3:1-9). She merely put on a cloak of holiness looking like a good sheep, but inwardly she was a ravenous wolf by the kind of sinful lifestyle that she lived. Do you know of anyone in your church who puts on a show of holiness and yet this is not really the case? This is why your belief is contradictory and not consistent with the Scriptures. Jesus condemned the Pharisees because they ignored the weightier matters of the Law (See: Matthew 23:23). Jesus condemned them for their hypocrisy.

eternally thankful · Mar 4, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
So she really did not believe in keeping God's laws for salvation (After being saved by God's grace). She believed that she is saved by God's grace alone (despite their sin) like the majority of churches today. We are living in the last days. Men today are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; They have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof (See: 2 Timothy 3:1-9). She merely put on a cloak of holiness looking like a good sheep, but inwardly she was a ravenous wolf by the kind of sinful lifestyle that she lived. Do you know of anyone in your church who puts on a show of holiness and yet this is not really the case? This is why your belief is contradictory and not consistent with the Scriptures. Jesus condemned the Pharisees because they ignored the weightier matters of the Law (See: Matthew 23:23). Jesus condemned them for their hypocrisy.

Can you address the following? I'd like to know your view on it, thanks:

It may be an idea for people to tell us exactly what works will enable us to get to Heaven. What do they themselves believe are works that will justify their entry into heaven?
Would they consider obeying Jesus commands are works that will enable them to enter Heaven? Would they then consider they must lend to their enemies, those who may hate them without ever expecting anything back? Would they consider they must give to anyone who steals from them more besides what they stole, loving them whilst doing so? Would they consider without truly in their hearts loving those who may persecute them bar them from heaven as this would be failure to do a work? Would they consider failure to leap for joy when they are persecuted a lack of work that could bar them from Heaven? Just wondered what the benchmark is here as to works needed to enter heaven

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
It may be an idea for people to tell us exactly what works will enable us to get to Heaven. What do they themselves believe are works that will justify their entry into heaven?
Would they consider obeying Jesus commands are works that will enable them to enter Heaven? Would they then consider they must lend to their enemies, those who may hate them without ever expecting anything back? Would they consider they must give to anyone who steals from them more besides what they stole, loving them whilst doing so? Would they consider without truly in their hearts loving those who may persecute them bar them from heaven as this would be failure to do a work? Would they consider failure to leap for joy when they are persecuted a lack of work that could bar them from Heaven? Just wondered what the benchmark is here as to works needed to enter heaven

First, works is a part of the Sanctification process in living holy by the power of God after one is saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Are works necessary as a part of God's plan of salvation?

Yes, the Bible appears to teach that this is so. For...

We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).
Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).
Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).
Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).
We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).
Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).
Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).
Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).
Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).
If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

Second, you list certain commands that God does not attach with warnings with hellfire and condemnation like not obeying the Lord's command to leap for joy when we are persecuted. So you are inventing condemnation where none exists. We can only be condemned by those sins, or disobedience to those commands that God has warned us about that can lead to condemnation in hell fire and or spiritual death. 1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin unto death, and there is a sin not unto death. We know that even Paul was not condemned by God (with hellfire) for not listening to the Spirit in going to Jerusalem. God was still able to use Paul, despite this kind of disobedience.

crossnote · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
People who claim sinless perfection have hardened hearts I am afraid-and are therefore seriously misguided:
If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us 1John1:8

Yes and it's a colossal waste of time after about 20 responses with the same person.

eternally thankful · Mar 4, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
First, works is a part of the Sanctification process in living holy by the power of God after one is saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Are works necessary as a part of God's plan of salvation?

Yes, the Bible appears to teach that this is so. For...

We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).

Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).

Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).

If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).

Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

Second, you list certain commands that God does not attach with warnings with hellfire and condemnation like not obeying the Lord's command to leap for joy when we are persecuted. So you are inventing condemnation where none exists. We can only be condemned by those sins, or disobedience to those commands that God has warned us about that can lead to condemnation in hell fire and or spiritual death. 1 John 5:16-17 says there is a sin unto death, and there is a sin not unto death. We know that even Paul was not condemned by God (with hellfire) for not listening to the Spirit in going to Jerusalem. God was still able to use Paul, despite this kind of disobedience.

OK, I will take it you do not know exactly which works are required to enter heaven, and obeying many of Jesus commands are not some of them. I will also take it you do not know how many works you must do to be sure of entering heaven. I knew a guy once who stated your righteousness was obeying 1050 NT commands, including Jesus commands, obviously that was not you

eternally thankful · Mar 4, 2020

Strange as it may seem, those who are most acutely aware of their shortcomings/sin, those who hate sin the most and do not seek to make excuses for it, are those who cling to a righteousness of faith in Christ, apart from works

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
Can you address the following? I'd like to know your view on it, thanks:

It may be an idea for people to tell us exactly what works will enable us to get to Heaven. What do they themselves believe are works that will justify their entry into heaven?
Would they consider obeying Jesus commands are works that will enable them to enter Heaven? Would they then consider they must lend to their enemies, those who may hate them without ever expecting anything back? Would they consider they must give to anyone who steals from them more besides what they stole, loving them whilst doing so? Would they consider without truly in their hearts loving those who may persecute them bar them from heaven as this would be failure to do a work? Would they consider failure to leap for joy when they are persecuted a lack of work that could bar them from Heaven? Just wondered what the benchmark is here as to works needed to enter heaven

What works enable a person to get to Heaven?

First, one must partake of the work of God to believe in Jesus Christ to be initially saved.
This is God's grace and it is primarily a work of God and not our own doing. For we are first saved by His mercy and not in anything we have done (See: Titus 3:3-5).
We seek forgiveness with Jesus Christ by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 18:9-14) (1 John 2:1-2, 1 John 1:9), and we believe in the gospel message for our salvation (i.e. We believe Christ died, was buried, and was risen again 3 days later on our behalf for salvation - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Second, after being saved by God's grace, we then enter the Sanctification Process by surrendering our life to the good work He wants to do through us (Philippians 2:13, John 15:5, Galatians 5:16, Galatians 5:22-24). The work is not our own work alone, but it is God doing the good work in us. What works should be seen in our life (Which is the working of God in us)?

1. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, we are told that to love God is a part of inheriting eternal life, See: Luke 10:25-28.
2. Love your neighbor. Is it a part of eternal life? Yes, see: Luke 10:25-28, and Matthew 19:17-19.
3. Preaching or spreading the gospel message. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, See Luke 9:62.
4. Helping the poor and or the unfortunate. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, see Matthew 25:31-46.
5. Loving your enemies. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, for we are told to follow after peace with all men without which we will not see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).
6. Love the brethren. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, we are told the one who does not love his brother is not of God (See: 1 John 3:10).
7. Study His Word to show yourself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15). Is it a salvation issue? Yes, I believe in certain cases it can be. Obviously a person who accepts Jesus on their death bed is not under obligation of something that they cannot do. But for those who live out their faith, they are given responsibility to do things for the Lord. For to whom much is given, much is required (Luke 12:48). If a believer (who has accepted Christ as their Savior and the gospel) later learns of the Trinity, or the Incarnation, or the bodily resurrection, they cannot reject these truths in Scripture (once they are revealed to them) and be still be saved. A person must worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). A person cannot reject the incarnation (See: 1 John 4:3). A person cannot reject the bodily resurrection because it would be similar to rejecting the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15). For God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).
8. Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus (Matthew 16:24). Is it a salvation issue? Yes, "whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Matthew 16:25-26) (Note: I see this as denying the worldly things that this world craves so as to follow Jesus and do His work; See 1 John 2:15-17).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
OK, I will take it you do not know exactly which works are required to enter heaven, and obeying many of Jesus commands are not some of them. I will also take it you do not know how many works you must do to be sure of entering heaven. I knew a guy once who stated your righteousness was obeying 1050 NT commands, including Jesus commands, obviously that was not you

I did at one time promote the 1050 New Testament commands. I later discovered these commands come from Finnis Jennings Dake (of whom I do not agree with on Theology). I cannot recall saying that we had to obey all of these in order to be saved; If I did, my beliefs have changed since then. It is also possible that this was another poster. In either case, after I have done my own personal deep study on God's commands in the New Testament over the past several years, I have come to discover that Finnis Jennings Dake's list of NT commands is not exactly what is in line with what Scripture says plainly. So far I have found 400 explicit or direct commands in the New Testament, and I am constantly double checking and revising this list in careful prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
OK, I will take it you do not know exactly which works are required to enter heaven, and obeying many of Jesus commands are not some of them. I will also take it you do not know how many works you must do to be sure of entering heaven. I knew a guy once who stated your righteousness was obeying 1050 NT commands, including Jesus commands, obviously that was not you

I knew what you said. It takes time to reply and I wanted to first lay the foundation that works are requirement as a part of the Sanctification Process (by the power of God) after we are saved by God's grace. I just answered in post #71.

Note: We cannot be saved by doing good works alone (without God's grace). Neither can we be saved first by works and then grace. That would be putting the cart before the horse. Neither can we be forgiven of sin by doing good works, either. We can only go to God's grace to be forgiven if we happen to stumble into sin on rare occasion. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). This would be confessing one's sins to Jesus (1 John 2:1-2).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

eternally thankful said:
Strange as it may seem, those who are most acutely aware of their shortcomings/sin, those who hate sin the most and do not seek to make excuses for it, are those who cling to a righteousness of faith in Christ, apart from works

And Jesus will say, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

Charlie24 · Mar 4, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
What works enable a person to get to Heaven?

First, one must partake of the work of God to believe in Jesus Christ to be initially saved.
This is God's grace and it is primarily a work of God and not our own doing. For we are first saved by His mercy and not in anything we have done (See: Titus 3:3-5).
We seek forgiveness with Jesus Christ by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 18:9-14) (1 John 2:1-2, 1 John 1:9), and we believe in the gospel message for our salvation (i.e. We believe Christ died, was buried, and was risen again 3 days later on our behalf for salvation - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Second, after being saved by God's grace, we then enter the Sanctification Process by surrendering our life to the good work He wants to do through us (Philippians 2:13, John 15:5, Galatians 5:16, Galatians 5:22-24). The work is not our own work alone, but it is God doing the good work in us. What works should be seen in our life (Which is the working of God in us)?

1. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, we are told that to love God is a part of inheriting eternal life, See: Luke 10:25-28.
2. Love your neighbor. Is it a part of eternal life? Yes, see: Luke 10:25-28, and Matthew 19:17-19.
3. Preaching or spreading the gospel message. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, See Luke 9:62.
4. Helping the poor and or the unfortunate. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, see Matthew 25:31-46.
5. Loving your enemies. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, for we are told to follow after peace with all men without which we will not see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).
6. Love the brethren. Is it a salvation issue? Yes, we are told the one who does not love his brother is not of God (See: 1 John 3:10).
7. Study His Word to show yourself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15). Is it a salvation issue? Yes, I believe in certain cases it can be. Obviously a person who accepts Jesus on their death bed is not under obligation of something that they cannot do. But for those who live out their faith, they are given responsibility to do things for the Lord. For to whom much is given, much is required (Luke 12:48). If a believer (who has accepted Christ as their Savior and the gospel) later learns of the Trinity, or the Incarnation, or the bodily resurrection, they cannot reject these truths in Scripture (once they are revealed to them) and be still be saved. A person must worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:24). A person cannot reject the bodily resurrection because it would be similar to rejecting the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15). For God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).
8. Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus (Matthew 16:24). Is it a salvation issue? Yes, "whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Matthew 16:25-26) (Note: I see this as denying the worldly things that this world craves so as to follow Jesus and do His work; See 1 John 2:15-17).

With your post here I will make my point.

The list you have made is impossible to sustain for every single christian.

That's why salvation is not based on performance on our part, it is based on faith.

The Holy Spirit will lead us to do as much of this list and many more things, but it's not at all by our doing. It's all Him.

We will all fall short of these things but our faith is what will sustain us, not the doing of these things.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

Charlie24 said:
With your post here I will make my point.

The list you have made is impossible to sustain for every single christian.

That's why salvation is not based on performance on our part, it is based on faith.

The Holy Spirit will lead us to do as much of this list and many more things, but it's not at all by our doing. It's all Him.

We will all fall short of these things but our faith is what will sustain us, not the doing of these things.

It is written:

22 "But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" (Matthew 19:22-27).

Jesus says,

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
(Matthew 19:29).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 4, 2020

Charlie24 said:
With your post here I will make my point.

The list you have made is impossible to sustain for every single christian.

That's why salvation is not based on performance on our part, it is based on faith.

The Holy Spirit will lead us to do as much of this list and many more things, but it's not at all by our doing. It's all Him.

We will all fall short of these things but our faith is what will sustain us, not the doing of these things.

So I guess you have to change or ignore whole swafs of Scripture then?
I sure hope not.
We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
God can help us to do what seems impossible to us.

eternally thankful · Mar 4, 2020

Charlie24 said:
With your post here I will make my point.

The list you have made is impossible to sustain for every single christian.

That's why salvation is not based on performance on our part, it is based on faith.

A good point. Always remember, many who quote the letter to you of what you must do to enter heaven, do not nor cannot practice what they preach. They simply reel off some of the literal letter to you, and make their demands they themselves do not even try to keep. It is a very dangerous thing to do:
The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matthew 7:2

eternally thankful · Mar 4, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I did at one time promote the 1050 New Testament commands. I later discovered these commands come from Finnis Jennings Dake (of whom I do not agree with on Theology). I cannot recall saying that we had to obey all of these in order to be saved; If I did, my beliefs have changed since then. It is also possible that this was another poster. In either case, after I have done my own personal deep study on God's commands in the New Testament over the past several years, I have come to discover that Finnis Jennings Dake's list of NT commands is not exactly what is in line with what Scripture says plainly. So far I have found 400 explicit or direct commands in the New Testament, and I am constantly double checking and revising this list in careful prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

Well it is good you are open to allowing your opinions to change. But a word of caution, be very careful before you tell others what they must do to be justified before God. For some may have read your old opinions and followed a false path as it were to be justified before God

Charlie24 · Mar 4, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
So I guess you have to change or ignore whole swafs of Scripture then?
I sure hope not.
We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
God can help us to do what seems impossible to us.

Phil. 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

You can't do it on your own BH! Even when the Holy Spirit leads it we will fall short most of the time.

I'm not undercutting Gods ability, I am professing from experience the fallen nature of man.

As Paul said, there is no good thing that dwells in us.

Most of us all agree Gal. 3:23 is not saying there was no faith in the OT, so then what about works?

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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