SELFE DEFENSE IS GOD ORDAINED

Hazelelponi · Feb 4, 2020

I'm mixed on this issue... not for myself, but as a general rule.

The most natural aspect of any living creature is self defense / self preservation. The most unnatural thing is to accept what others may do to you.

God gives government, and military armies to defend people, even or especially His people.

God also teaches us to overcome our base instincts all the time, and place our trust in Him for all things.

Man's basic instinct is kindness to those people who are kind to you. God says His people must be more than this, for example. Much of Christianity is overcoming basic instinct.

If a nation didn't defend itself, it would cease being a nation in short order. Islam spread via the sword and overcame and supplanted entire Christian nations across the middle east and Scripture tells us to chose death before we deny Him.

Yet, if there hadn't been those nations willing to fight against those same forces Christianity would hardly exist anywhere on earth today.

I think as a result of all this that we will know in our hour of trial what we are supposed to do, as led by God.

For myself, I believe it means that I will never defend myself, and I own no gun nor means of protection. However, for my husband he's certain it means he will defend anyone needing defense, and he owns a couple guns and other means of protection.

For each of us we may have different answers, and I'm not sure any answer is wrong. It just comes down to what we are individually called to do, and so long as it's because we are led by God and for the glory of God, then it's right.

miamited · Feb 4, 2020

Paulus59 said:
Yes, under the those circumstances - which is gun culture America - I support church members being armed, but if you reduced & regulated gun access and the types of guns available there would be no need for armed church members.

Hi paulus,

Well, in looking at the firearms data around the world I think it difficult to not see that the strength of a nations control over private ownership of firearms, is directly related to the number of bodies piling up in the streets. I've always touted Japan as the very best example. It is virtually impossible for a private citizen to own a firearm. If someone is able to get a permit, which is extremely rare, they must file a 'map' of where the gun is kept in the house. There is virtually no place to buy ammunition because there are so few firearms. According to the article below, anyone owning a firearm must allow the police to come in their home once a year to verify where it is. It seems I remember reading that you also can't own the ammunition or can't keep it in the same place as the firearm.

Annual firearms death's in Japan = less than 20.

Here's an article on the subject: These 4 countries have nearly eliminated gun deaths — here's what the US can learn

These are all pretty current statistics (within the last 3 years), and they show that as nations adopted stricter firearms controls rather than loosening controls, the numbers in their own countries went down. I imagine most law abiding Americans, and certainly Christian Americans would want to reduce senseless deaths. However, that doesn't seem to be the case here. Believe it or not, people really can live in a society without the fear of random violent deaths from firearms. It's actually proven out every single day around the globe. People can live perfectly satisfying lives without having to depend on a gun by their side to protect themselves.

Of course, that's a small part of the problem also. We, the U.S. have built a culture that believes that there are no limits to what we should be allowed to do to satisfy our personal need for protection. As a born again believer, I've just always believed that God would do what He has promised to do for those who love Him. He has promised to watch over my way. (Psalm 1)

We can make our streets safer for ourselves and our children. Australia has done it and Great Britain has done it.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

miamited · Feb 4, 2020

Hi hazelelponi,

You mentioned in an earlier post:

Hazelelponi said:
If a nation didn't defend itself, it would cease being a nation in short order. Islam spread via the sword and overcame and supplanted entire Christian nations across the middle east and Scripture tells us to chose death before we deny Him.

Let me be clear. This is not about nations being unable to defend themselves. Japan has an army and so do Australia and Great Britain. Both Australia and Great Britain have been allies with the U.S. in armed combat. This idea that strict gun control means no army for a nation to defend itself is a deflection.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Hazelelponi · Feb 4, 2020

miamited said:
Hi hazelelponi,

You mentioned in an earlier post:

Let me be clear. This is not about nations being unable to defend themselves. Japan has an army and so do Australia and Great Britain. Both Australia and Great Britain have been allies with the U.S. in armed combat. This idea that strict gun control means no army for a nation to defend itself is a deflection.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Sometimes the enemy is within more than without.

Nation's who fall, fall most often at the hand of its own people. The fall from without is almost an exception, not the rule.

lsume · Feb 4, 2020

tulc said:
Let's look at that one in context:

you don't think perhaps, rather then a Scripture about buying a gun and such, this is more about taking care of the people around you. Without having to shoot anyone in order to do so?
tulc(likes looking at Scriptures in their context)

As I think I shared, statistically speaking I think that Americans are very safe attending church. I’ve got my concealed carry but I don’t think I would ever be inclined to do so in church. However, if we are in fact living in the last days, I expect many bad things will be happening in and around Church.

Consider also that Christ will never forsake His sheep. When I consider the Sacrafice made by Christ, it still moves me.

lsume · Feb 4, 2020

miamited said:
Hi hazelelponi,

You mentioned in an earlier post:

Let me be clear. This is not about nations being unable to defend themselves. Japan has an army and so do Australia and Great Britain. Both Australia and Great Britain have been allies with the U.S. in armed combat. This idea that strict gun control means no army for a nation to defend itself is a deflection.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I seem to recall the Japanese being asked by America to stockpile nuclear weapons. Japan declined. Now that North Korea has sent a ballistic missle over Japan as I recall, maybe they will change their mind.

lsume · Feb 4, 2020

Adino The Eznite said:
Hi Hank77.
Yes you can agree with Ted and tulk, no worries at all. I understand 1 Tim. 5: 8, differently.
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

I have been blessed by God and have been able to provide everything my family requires to live a long happy life. Now if some criminals were to invade my home, rape my wife or daughters, and I just stood by and watched, or ran because I could not defend them, then I have denied the faith and trust God has given me, and I am in His eyes worse than an infidel."

God bless!

I am a gun owner. I have my concealed carry license as well as licenses for suppressors. I had my FFL from around 1976-1982. I also had my federal heavy explosives license from around 2002-2007. My point is that having plenty of weaponry does not equate an action. There is a very strong contingent that expressly wants guns outlawed. I have not seriously considered carrying to church. How many millions have attended church with no unwanted events. A simple and humble approach towards church time seems ideal. In the future, I expect things to get much worse very fast. Moral turpitude is why similar governments have failed thru history.

miamited · Feb 4, 2020

lsume said:
I seem to recall the Japanese being asked by America to stockpile nuclear weapons. Japan declined. Now that North Korea has sent a ballistic missle over Japan as I recall, maybe they will change their mind.

Hi isume,

I don't know why they would. Japan is perfectly capable of defending itself against its neighbors. I think, with Japan's experience and culture, they don't want to have anything to do with nuclear armaments. They've seen the death and destruction first hand. As a general rule, Japan has chosen to be more peaceful since WWII. Japan understands that if ever the use of nuclear armaments are ever brought up again, now that a lot of nations have them, it will likely lead to Armageddon or be Armageddon.

The U.S. was fortunate in 1945, when they became the one and only nation to use such a weapon, to be the only nation that had such a weapon. Now, likely because of the U.S.'s decision to use such a weapon, a lot of other nations have them and they're no longer the guarantee that they were in 1945. The last thing that any reasonable nation wants to do is to start throwing around nuclear weapons. The U.S., of course, being the big bully beast that it is, thinks to itself that having nuclear weapons puts the other nations in their place.

We are the beast of the nations. We are the most violent of people all across the globe within our own borders and without. We are the nation that has risen up out of the sea, beginning back in the 1600's. I don't say this as some recent event, although our culture of fear and intimidation is what breeds people like we have today. It's sad, but it is also fulfilled prophecy and so I fully expect it to be happening and to continue until the end.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Monksailor · Feb 4, 2020

Basil the Great said:
Self defense sounds reasonable, but I do not believe that this includes the dropping of the two bombs on Japan in WW II and killing 100,00 civilians.

You mention what the US did to stop Japan, but what about what Japan did to the world? "On the other hand, the news is a reminder that Japan raped, tortured and murdered tens of millions of people in what’s become known as “the Asian Holocaust” — something that textbooks in Western countries barely even mention at all." pasted from: The Asian Holocaust Killed Twice As Many People As The Nazis Did

Hmmmmmm........raping, pillaging,......millions of civilians.....hmmmmm. They should not have been stopped as fast as possible?

Monksailor · Feb 4, 2020

miamited said:
Hi all,

I've read the responses and I stand by my conviction. Everyone who wants to own a firearm is free to do so in this country, so long as they meet a few legal issues. I'm just not a part of that and, as I've said, the international data on firearm's deaths and firearm's ownership seems fairly strong in showing a direct correlation. However, as far as God, through His word, giving any indication that He wants His children to depend on firearms for their protection, I just don't see it. Yes I get it, that the world, especially here in the U.S., has adopted this agenda that pretty much everyone should own a firearm. But, I honestly don't believe that Jesus taught or the Scriptures encourage God's children to do so.

I could be wrong. But that's the understanding that I'm going to live by. I have no reason or purpose to own a handgun.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I agree, I have reviewed ALL of the verses you have presented. There exists no support for what you propose from ANY of these verses in their contextual utilization. To not give way to an evil person does not say to use weapons against him. You can just stand your ground and make him knock you down and take what he wants. You did NOT give way to him. I myself would sin in this situation. I would physically or with weapon resist if need be to stop a predator or otherwise evil person. But I will not try to justify it with loose made up justifications. Our heart is supposed to be so full of love even towards our persecutors that we turn our cheek to them to offer them another opportunity to hit us. I cannot do that, yet, esp with my background, but I will not try to justify myself for sinning; not following our Lord's instructions.

lsume · Feb 4, 2020

miamited said:
Hi isume,

I don't know why they would. Japan is perfectly capable of defending itself against its neighbors. I think, with Japan's experience and culture, they don't want to have anything to do with nuclear armaments. They've seen the death and destruction first hand. As a general rule, Japan has chosen to be more peaceful since WWII. Japan understands that if ever the use of nuclear armaments are ever brought up again, now that a lot of nations have them, it will likely lead to Armageddon or be Armageddon.

The U.S. was fortunate in 1945, when they became the one and only nation to use such a weapon, to be the only nation that had such a weapon. Now, likely because of the U.S.'s decision to use such a weapon, a lot of other nations have them and they're no longer the guarantee that they were in 1945. The last thing that any reasonable nation wants to do is to start throwing around nuclear weapons. The U.S., of course, being the big bully beast that it is, thinks to itself that having nuclear weapons puts the other nations in their place.

We are the beast of the nations. We are the most violent of people all across the globe within our own borders and without. We are the nation that has risen up out of the sea, beginning back in the 1600's. I don't say this as some recent event, although our culture of fear and intimidation is what breeds people like we have today. It's sad, but it is also fulfilled prophecy and so I fully expect it to be happening and to continue until the end.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I agree and I also was impressed that they turned it down. Nuclear weapons are insane as I see it. I think most any rational human being must agree. When President Reagan and Russia’s Gorbachev got together, they both agreed in principle that nukes were a bad idea. I also believe that we should pray for our leaders. It’s really just that simple.

love
Always In Christ
Jim

lsume · Feb 4, 2020

Hazelelponi said:
I'm mixed on this issue... not for myself, but as a general rule.

The most natural aspect of any living creature is self defense / self preservation. The most unnatural thing is to accept what others may do to you.

God gives government, and military armies to defend people, even or especially His people.

God also teaches us to overcome our base instincts all the time, and place our trust in Him for all things.

Man's basic instinct is kindness to those people who are kind to you. God says His people must be more than this, for example. Much of Christianity is overcoming basic instinct.

If a nation didn't defend itself, it would cease being a nation in short order. Islam spread via the sword and overcame and supplanted entire Christian nations across the middle east and Scripture tells us to chose death before we deny Him.

Yet, if there hadn't been those nations willing to fight against those same forces Christianity would hardly exist anywhere on earth today.

I think as a result of all this that we will know in our hour of trial what we are supposed to do, as led by God.

For myself, I believe it means that I will never defend myself, and I own no gun nor means of protection. However, for my husband he's certain it means he will defend anyone needing defense, and he owns a couple guns and other means of protection.

For each of us we may have different answers, and I'm not sure any answer is wrong. It just comes down to what we are individually called to do, and so long as it's because we are led by God and for the glory of God, then it's right.

Zachm531 · Feb 4, 2020

Adino The Eznite said:
God’s all for self defense, in fact if a man fails in defending his own life and the lives of his family God says he's nothing more than a poisoned spring! "A troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring." (Proverbs 25:26).

Proverbs 25:26
26 A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well.

1 Timothy 5:8
8 But if anyone does not provide (protection) for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

It seems to me, the so called religious politicians of this world, people like former Prime minister of Australia, John Howard for an example seem to know more than God has revealed to mankind in general in His book the Bible, and so John Howard and his aids decided God doesn't know what He is talking about regarding self defense and decided to overrule the God he believes in, and he Ruled Over us, the people who elected him to rule the country only, and banned all weapons of self defense and made self defense illegal.

Completely and utterly ripped 1 Timothy 5:8 out of context and added your own word to fit your narrative? Thats horrible man. The chapter is talking about widows and raising children, has nothing to do with protection. Jesus says if someone smite you on your right cheek, turn to him your left and if you live by the sword you die by the sword. Matthew 26:52 and Matthew 5:39

Archivist · Feb 4, 2020

Adino The Eznite said:
Yes you can agree with Ted and tulk, no worries at all. I understand 1 Tim. 5: 8, differently. "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

I have been blessed by God and have been able to provide everything my family requires to live a long happy life. Now if some criminals were to invade my home, rape my wife or daughters, and I just stood by and watched, or ran because I could not defend them, then I have denied the faith and trust God has given me, and I am in His eyes worse than an infidel."

I would take action to defend myself or others if it were necessary to do so. However, I know that my former Amish neighbors wouldn't raise a finger in self defense. I don't fault them for their belief that it is wrong to do so.

grasping the after wind · Feb 4, 2020

miamited said:
Hi adino,

... For me, I've definitely come to conclusion that the more you allow the populace to hold handguns, the more people die as a result. I don't support that....

The exact same thing could be said for other things, the more you allow people to hold cars knives, scissors, hammers, the list goes on, the more people die as a result. The thing I take issue with is that anyone or any institution should get to decide what people are allowed to hold. As long as one is not harming others with what one is holding, I do not see why anyone but God Himself has the right to tell one what one is allowed to hold.

grasping the after wind · Feb 4, 2020

Zachm531 said:
Completely and utterly ripped 1 Timothy 5:8 out of context and added your own word to fit your narrative? Thats horrible man. The chapter is talking about widows and raising children, has nothing to do with protection. Jesus says if someone smite you on your right cheek, turn to him your left and if you live by the sword you die by the sword. Matthew 26:52 and Matthew 5:39

But didn't God make us with the instinct for self preservation? If He made us this way then it must be good.

Zachm531 · Feb 4, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
But didn't God make us witht he instinct for self preservation. If He made us this way then it must be good.

Can i see the scripture to support that?

grasping the after wind · Feb 4, 2020

Zachm531 said:
Can i see the scripture to support that?

Go right ahead, I won't stop you.

Zachm531 · Feb 4, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
Go right ahead, I won't stop you.

Oh? I was assuming that you had some to back your stance

lsume · Feb 4, 2020

Zachm531 said:
Completely and utterly ripped 1 Timothy 5:8 out of context and added your own word to fit your narrative? Thats horrible man. The chapter is talking about widows and raising children, has nothing to do with protection. Jesus says if someone smite you on your right cheek, turn to him your left and if you live by the sword you die by the sword. Matthew 26:52 and Matthew 5:39

Not sure what’s going on with this particular post. Christ correctly obeys God The Father in every way. Christ always does that which pleases The Father. I would like to get it right just as much as Christ wants us to get it right. However, I’m pretty sure that I don’t fit the description. We all want to grow in Christ I assume.

SELFE DEFENSE IS GOD ORDAINED

:sighing:

Ted

Ted

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That's grasping after the wind

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