Critique of Cruelty in the Bible

Jezabella said:

How does the fight for human rights akin to anything satanic? A human has the right to live without being discriminated against, abused, tortured, murdered, etc.

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I believe in Human Rights. I just don't think that any human rights scheme that is as metaphysically groundless as that of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights can actually be very conducive to bringing people to the same "ethical page."

Have you ever read anything by Michael Ignatieff or Michael Freeman?

How was Eve to know that disobedience was bad if she had not eaten the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?

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If you've read anything I've ever written here on CF about Eve, I think you'd quickly see that I don't think the blame overly lies with Eve-------besides, I think Adam and Eve are literary representations, not literal, historical people. So, you might keep that in mind. My 'Christian' point of view is quite complex.

Really, that's like severely punishing an innocent child who had no idea they were doing anything wrong. If you tell a two year old not to leave the front yard and you leave the gate wide open, does the child deserve to be severely punished for rushing out of the gate?

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As I said, I have a much more complex approach to politics and to social philosophy than does the average Christian. Please keep this in mind.

Jezabella said:

How does one reconcile the idea that in order to forgive us from being exactly who god created us to be, he has to kill his own son.

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The orthodox position, to which I hold, is that Jesus Christ is God. Sin, by its nature is destructive. God-in Jesus Christ-takes the destructive nature of sin upon God's own self in order that we might live as God created us to live, and in order that we might do so in God's presence forever as God intended.

My post that you initially responded to is important. The bible has a lot in it that is near impossible to reconcile with a loving God. That is why I said we must begin with Christ as our primary source for knowing who God is and what we are to be in relation to God and one another. Jesus Christ is our primary revelation of who God is and who God intends for us to be.

I don't read the scriptures as the fundamentalists do. I came to know Christ through the scriptures. And then Christ became the interpretative key to the scriptures. He is the lens through which the scriptures are understood. The bible is a means to knowing Christ. Once you know him, then you know God and who you are to be as God's creature.

Jezabella said:

To be told god's ways are not our ways is like a parent saying to the child "do as I say, not as I do".

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I'm not sure I said that. If I did then I now clarify that his ways are higher than our ways, not lower. Again, if you want things to make sense you will have to begin with Christ as the primary revelation of God. The scriptures have their place and their purpose, but they are not perfect. Look to the Son and you will see the Father.

Jezabella said:

How does the fight for human rights akin to anything satanic? A human has the right to live without being discriminated against, abused, tortured, murdered, etc.

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According to what law? "Rights" are a legal term.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

According to what law? "Rights" are a legal term.

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The law of common decency

Who wrote that law? Where can I find it if I want to read it?

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Who wrote that law? Where can I find it if I want to read it?

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I don't need an official law to dictate common decency to me.

I do not need a law to tell me to NOT kill another human being.

It makes no sense to me.

Yet a Christian will say to a non-believer
... "where is your moral compass"?

Whatever happened to plain common sense?


https://www.alternet.org/2014/03/why-atheists-make-85-percent-americas-scientists-and-07-percent-its-prison/

FireDragon76 said:

That's good to know. Making the Bible the beginning and end of ones moral deliberation is truly disturbing. What's scary is that a sizable number of Americans do just that.

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The only thing we need to be concerned about as Christians is Christ and his teachings. That was the whole purpose of God sending him. It was no longer about some God in the sky but one that was made flesh and came to us to show us God and to show us the way. That is why we are called Christ-ians. That is not a scary proposition but a good one and one that offers far greater peace, hope and love than what this world offers.

From what has been happening in this world and the false hope given we are seeing many lose hope, becoming anxious with wars and rumors of wars, destruction of the planet etc. Growing mental illness, increasing conflict, anger and hatred and suicide especially the young who should be our future.

This line of thinking explains why so many Christians are given to authoritarianism. If questioning religious moral authority is impious, then the pious will never question their leaders.

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No it is a reasonable way of thinking. No one stands up in court and questions or ridicules our judges as that would be contempt. We trust and respect our judges to do the right thing. How much greater is the ultimate judge who is trusted and respected by millions and who from the time he was crucified for us has seen a movement grow which has changed the world.

But who said there was no questioning things as Christians. People seem to think we don't have a mind to use. Some of the greatest discoveries came from Christians because their minds were set to wonder and ask questions in wanting to know about Gods creation. Christians use reasoning just as much if not more than anyone. When you consider forums like this one, bible groups and studies and apologetics.

There is no authoritarianism in Christ. Jesus says the two greatest commandments that cover all of Gods laws are to love God and to love one another. That cannot be a bad thing. Jesus does not force people to follow him and people don't blindly believe in him. Faith is not blind. The bible says Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. The problem is people politicize religion just like anything and wreck a good thing. Humans have a tendency to do this no matter what they get involved with.

123Michelle said:

Hello everyone!

I was researching info on the bible and found an article talking about many criticisms of the bible. One of the portions that hit me rather hard read the following:

"Cruelty in Basic Christian Teachings

Instances of cruel and unjust behavior by the biblical God are seen in the most basic Christian doctrines. Some of God’s acts that harmed the innocent are as follows.

He damned the whole human race and cursed the entire creation because of the acts of two people (Genesis 3:16-23; Romans 5:18); he drowned pregnant women and innocent children and animals at the time of the Flood (Genesis 7:20-23); he tormented the Egyptians and their animals with hail and disease because pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave Egypt (Exodus 9:8-11,25); and he killed Egyptian babies at the time of the Passover (Exodus 12:29-30).

After the Exodus he ordered the Israelites to exterminate the men, women, and children of seven nations and steal their land (Deuteronomy 7:1-2); he killed King David’s baby because of David’s adultery with Bathsheba (II Samuel 12:13-18); he required the torture and murder of his own son (e.g., Romans 3:24-25); and he promised to send non-Christians to eternal torture (e.g., Revelation 21:8)."

I have always believed in a loving God, so these points did make me think for a while. I would love to hear other Christian (or otherwise) perspectives on this!

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If what is attributed to the Biblical god is true it is a highly unpleasant entity, Satan could be no worse.