When did the Old Covenant truly "disappear" and end?

mkgal1 said:

The word "preterist" comes from a Latin root word that means "past". So, technically.....if you believe SOME of the prophecies are fulfilled - then that would technically make you a partial preterist (as ALL Christians are - refusing the label or not).

Wiki: Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some or all prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. Wikipedia​

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To own the "preterist" title associates us with error at best, and grievous heresy at worst, so we don't have to go there.

Oldmantook said:

If Jesus is the temple as you have claimed, how can the glory of God enter Him if Jesus is already the manifest glory of God?

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You have to pay attention to the gospel accounts. His glorification was in his sacrifice. He says, before he was crucified that he had yet to be glorified and then at the last supper he said he was glorified and he asks the Father to glorify him even further.

In the future temple, the glory of God enters the East gate. Correct me if I'm wrong but a building/temple can be filled with the glory of God. Jesus however already manifests God's glory so how can his glory enter/re-enter Him? This explains why the temple cannot be Jesus and has t be a literal, physical building.

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You keep saying that it cannot be Jesus and yet Jesus and his apostles said it was. You are reading prophecy through a veil. When you remove that veil, you get it.

2 Corinthians 3:12-17


Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

If you see it as that these animal sacrifices performed are fulfilled in Jesus, then why do the people still continue doing them?

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What do you mean? Are you saying that people are still offering animal sacrifices today? Or that because the prophecy refers to animal sacrifice, then it can't have been fulfilled with Jesus' sacrifice?

Jesus' sacrifice is once for all as it is the perfect sacrifice for sin. No need to shed Jesus' blood again or any other blood from animals. Yet in Ezekiel, we see the animal sacrifices offered repeatedly even on a daily basis as described in Eze 46:13-15. So the daily sacrifice of lamb in Ezekiel cannot be literally fulfilled in the slaughter/atonement of Jesus as they keep practicing animal sacrifice as commanded in Ezekiel.

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It can be and it was. The way to receive remission of sins under the old law was animal sacrifice. The prophecy is metaphorically connecting the dots. That you are reading a vision as being literal is your error. I'm not convinced you believe that Jesus' sacrifice was truly once for all. How can you believe that and still think that there is something to be fulfilled regarding the earthly Israel?

mkgal1 said:

Except for when that "passionate desire" is based on prophecy and promises of a Messiah (like in Daniel and Isaiah). It's our desires that lead us to God in the first place.

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Show exact Scripture please. Where are you talking about?

mkgal1 said:

I completely agree. It was the Jewish zealots that took matters into the own hands and believed that a war was the way to regain power against the Romans.

Quoting Ray Vander Laan:
THE RISING STORM Ever since the Romans arrived on the scene in 64 BC, the Jewish people were divided over how to respond to the rule of their often corrupt governors or the Herod family who served them. The religious community, particularly the Pharisees, believed the Jewish people were to be God's instruments on earth, from whom the Messiah would come to institute that glorious age when Israel would be a great and free nation. Many others, especially the secular community and apparently some of the Sadducees, noted the present reality of the rule of Rome and determined that cooperation was the best policy. The tyrannical rule of Rome and the paganism of its religious and Hellenistic culture heightened the contrast between the situation at hand and the messianic hopes. This difference produced increasing fragmentation of the people, and several movements developed in response.

The Zealots, an ultra-nationalistic group, proclaimed revolution to be God's solution (Acts 5:37). The Essenes withdrew, waiting anxiously for the Messiah to lead a violent overthrow of the Romans and their Jewish supporters. The Sadducees apparently practiced a form of cooperation since it was Rome who kept them securely in their position over the Temple and therefore over the people (John 11:49-50). The Herodions appeared satisfied with the Herod dynasty (Matt. 22:16). The Pharisees, condemning Rome's pagan excesses, were removed from politics and viewed the foreign oppressors as God's hand punishing his people for their unfaithfulness to the Torah. The country was in turmoil, each faction longing in a different way for the freedom they desired. To this climate of confusion, hatred, and division, many so-called messiahs came, each preaching his own brand of salvation (Acts 21:38). Jesus presented his unique message of redemption. Some followed his lead, but many did not. During feast days, especially Passover, tensions reached fever pitch and the Romans increased their military presence to prevent open revolt. The climate existed, however, for revolution to begin.

Herod Agrippa I, grandson of Herod the Great, died in AD 44 (Acts 12:19-23). The Romans appointed a series of governors called procurators, each apparently more corrupt and cruel than the previous ruler. Groups of rebel sicarii (assassins) were everywhere, killing Romans and the Jews who cooperated with them. Jonathan the high priest was assassinated. During this time, Paul was arrested (Acts 21:27-37) and accused of being one of the rebels (Acts 21:38). Popular support for the Zealots grew. The priesthood became more dependent on the Romans for security and support, and in so doing, they grew increasingly corrupt. This drove the common people toward the radical approach of the Zealots. ~ The Jewish Revolts

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Isn't it notable that all Preterists are depending on quoting their teachers in their posts? I wonder why? It is because it is impossible to articulate their beliefs in a biblical way. Also, their teaching does not abide the scrutiny of Scripture.

mkgal1 said:

So.....Ray Vander Laan is now in your group labeled "unbiblical" now too?

I'm quoting others for a few reasons. One is time......another is that these teachers do articulate far better than I do.....and have spent far more years studying than me as well.

Instead of just tossing out insults.....please back up your claims with some support. HOW is this against Scripture.....where?

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I was not throwing insults. I have not heard or read Ray Vander Laan. I have the Bible. I prefer it. I never typically check links out on discussion forums because I cannot question the author. I count it as a cop-out a lot of the time. I just see that Preterist do this more than anyone else.

mkgal1 said:

The desire for freedom came from Messianic prophecies - it wasn't an empty desire of their own making, they were based on promises. I'll have to pull up Scripture later - I don't have the time right now, but I'm mostly thinking of Daniel's and Isaiah's prophecies.

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Which ones?

mkgal1 said:

...
Has the Old Covenant disappeared? If so......when?

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People broke it.

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:8-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

But God keeps still His promises.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them; for I am Yahweh their God; but I will for their sake remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am Yahweh.'"
Leviticus 26:44-45

mkgal1 said:

Does that also mean that you've not read anything about the history of ancient Jerusalem and the war of the zealots in Josephus?

When a person comes to understand just how true Jesus' words are about Him fulfilling prophecy - it's awe inspiring. Until that point - the text of the Bible is a diluted message that lacks its full glory.

It's not that history is chosen over the Bible. History is an unbiased record of events. History *confirms* and reveals the Truth that's in the Bible. They're not at odds or competing. They go hand in hand beautifully.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18)​

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I read your post. But what you apply to AD70 is totally unbiblical and insane. You are indeed fixated with that date, when Scripture is fixated with the cross and the Lord's final return.

• You have the old covenant ending in AD70.
• You have the new covenant commencing in AD70.
• You have “this age” ending in AD70.
• You have “the age to come” starting in AD70.
• You have “the last days” finishing in AD70.
• You have “the last day” of “the last days” occurring in AD70.
• You have the “day of redemption” happening in AD70.
• You have the coming of the Lord arriving in AD70.
• You have the resurrection of the just and the unjust happening in AD70.
• You have the judgment of the just and the unjust happening in AD70.
• You have the new heavens and new earth appearing in AD70.

This is absolutely ridiculous! Such is your obsession with this much vaunted year (AD70), that their advocates and websites can do nothing else but speak on its virtues.

Scripture matters more to me than your links, writers and teachers. It is Scripture that forbids Preterism!!

Christ only recognizes two ages in His teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” One is current, corrupt and temporal and the other is impending, perfect and eternal. These terms are commonly used in the New Testament when contrasting the toil and trouble of the here-and-now with the glory and pristine nature of the hereafter. These two common phrases are found in different places in the New Testament, along with several other similar expressions, referring to time and eternity.

For the sake of clarity, the phrases “this world” and “the world to come” in the KJV are better interpreted “this age” and “the age to come.” The Greek word that is often interpreted “world” in this contrast is aion. But, it is not specifically speaking about the physical globe that we live on. It rather relates to: a vast period that is normally marked by what is said to occur within that period.

This current evil age

Let us see what the Bible attributes to the oft-mentioned time-period “this age” (or aion). Galatians 1:4 tells us that Christ “gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world (or aion or age), according to the will of God and our Father.”

According to this passage, what is “this age” particularly known for? What sets it apart from the age to come?

It is “evil”! The Greek word for evil is poneros! The meaning of this word is: “hurtful in effect or influence.” The word indicates ‘degeneracy from original virtue’. We do not need to look too far to realize that it is talking about our current age. In fact, evil has been with us since the fall, and will be with us to the second coming. This gives us immediate insight into the starting and finishing point of “this age.”

This age is constantly depicted throughout Scripture as being plagued by the existence of sin, decay and death. It is never portrayed as a pleasant, pristine or lasting state. In fact, Galatians 1:4 describes this age as “this present evil age;” one that Christ came to “deliver” us from through His death. Evil marks the period of time in-between the fall and the second coming of Christ. We can therefore confidently conclude that “this age” that we are looking at is still with us.

Paul the apostle tells us in Ephesians 5:16 that we should be: “redeeming the time, because the days are evil.”

This is a present ongoing reality on planet earth.

Ephesians 6:13 expressly says, “take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”

God simply promises the Ephesians His divine power and protection in the midst of evil, something that is in keeping with His character throughout the Word of God.

That is why Scripture exhorts us in Romans 12:2: “be not conformed to this world (or aion or age): but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

This is a spiritual directive that is applicable to man this side of eternity, or, right up until the day Christ returns. Believers are admonished not

not be conformed to this world because it is a wicked debased world that is corrupted by sinful man. Anyone that would relate this state to any other time than “this present evil age” is clearly in error.

Rather than this world becoming more enlightened and more liberated it is shown to becomes eviler and more bound. 2 Timothy 3:13 tells us: “evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” This has not let up since the beginning.

Sin arose in the Garden when Adam transgressed the command of God. Every man since Adam is born with original sin and therefore completely guilty before a righteous God. The Bible says, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12).

When Adam fell his desires automatically changed from being God-ward to being self-ward. Natural man with Adam’s blood is born with that same corrupt aspiration. He is a rebel. Man – in all generations – inherited Adam’s awful sinful nature, which ultimately separates him from a holy God. It is therefore accurate to say that this evil age has been with us since the fall.

It is not just man, and this age, that has been corrupted, the whole of creation suffers under its awful consequences. When man in the form of Adam disobeyed the divine warning, he brought judgement upon mankind and the earth itself.

Genesis 3:17-19 God told Adam, “Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee. Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”

The link between the creature and creation is unquestionable. When man fell then all creation experienced the consequences and fell with him. The curse upon man and the earth arrived simultaneously. The fate of man and creation are inextricably coupled together in Scripture.

This age, the earth that we live on and the spirit that controls this age are constantly shown to be fallen and depraved. That is why Jesus prayed to His Father in John 17:15-16: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world (or kosmos), but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world (or kosmos), even as I am not of the world (or kosmos).”

While the word kosmos can refer to the physical globe, it is regularly used in Scripture to refer to the ethical realm of sin existing upon this earth: the ungodly system out there that is sinful, carnal and against God. Basically, it describes the devil’s playing ground. This current fallen “world” is again represented by “evil.”

Jesus tells us in John 15:19: “If ye were of the world (or kosmos), the world (or kosmos) would love his own: but because ye are not of the world (or kosmos), but I have chosen you out of the world (or kosmos), therefore the world (or kosmos) hateth you.”

We should say at this juncture, so as to avoid any misunderstanding, there is definitely a strong, snug and repeated correlation between “this world” and “this age” and also equally “the world to come” and “the age to come.” In fact, they are consistently indistinguishable. This may even explain why the older commentators translated certain Greek words the way they did.

The reason we “are not of the world” is because it is temporary, corrupt and consumed with selfishness and sin. While we are in the world we are not of the world. This fallen world is infatuated with that which is wrong.

1 John 2:15-17 adds further illumination to the whole subject, saying: “Love not the world (or kosmos), neither the things that are in the world (or kosmos). If any man love the world (or kosmos), the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world (or kosmos), the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world (or kosmos). And the world (or kosmos) passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.”

A W Pink describes the world as “the human family, fashioning the framework of human society in accord with its own tendencies. It is the organized kingdom of the ‘carnal mind’ which is ‘enmity against God’ and which is ‘not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be’ (Romans 8:7).”

He concludes: “The world is that realm which is under God's condemnation (I Cor. 11:32), for to walk ‘according to the course of this world’ is to follow Satan and to be a ‘son of disobedience’ and therefore a ‘child of wrath’ (Eph. 2:2-3). From these verses, it is evident that ‘world’ denotes the ethical sphere of sinful rebellion.”

That is what John is referring to in 1 John 5:19 when he says: “the whole world (or kosmos) lieth in wickedness.”

The world, therefore, is the sinful environment that we live in on this earth that is controlled by Satan. Scripture is always repudiating this present age because of the presence of sin, the consequences of sin, the continued existence of Satan, and his nefarious influence over the majority of mankind.

We see the connection between “this age” and “this world” in the Bible’s description of the devil. 2 Corinthians 4:4 describes Satan as “the god of this world” (or aion or age). John 12:31, 14:30 and 16:11 on the other hand calls Satan “the prince of this world” (or kosmos). He is expressly both “the god of this age” and “the prince of this world.” Basically, now is his time.

It makes perfect sense to connect the existence of “evil” in “this age” to the activity of our arch-enemy the devil. After all, he is the source of evil and he is also “the god of this age.” When you note the destructive influence of, and interconnection between, both it is easy to identify the timespan that is known as “this present evil age” (Galatians 1:4). Satan and evil on this earth can be traced right back to the creation of man and the beginning of time. Scripture shows both the wicked one and wickedness functioning until the second coming of Christ, when Satan and all evil are finally extinguished. The reason being: they are inextricably linked. It is therefore reasonable to identify the length of “this age” with the activity and influence of “the god of this age” (2 Corinthians 4:4) and the evil he orchestrates (Romans 12:2 and Galatians 1:4).

As you study the teaching of Scripture (both Old Testament and New Testament) on this subject you see the Holy Spirit is constantly exhorting believers to shun the spirit and influence of this age.

2 Timothy 4:10 tells us, “Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world (or aion or age), and is departed unto Thessalonica.”

Loving “this present age” is depicted as a serious departure from the faith. Demas got distracted with the temporary worldly pleasures of “this present age.” He got his eyes off the eternal – which is ushered in at the return of Christ.

Jesus splits those who hear His Word into four different groupings. He symbolically likens them onto 4 types of ground (4 different types of heart) that receive the seed (the Word) in the parable of the sower in Mark 4. When He turned to the 3rd type of ground (or heart) in Mark 4:18-19 He said: “And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world (or aion or age), and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” We find this same thought in Matthew 13:22 also.

A basic examination of this text reveals that “cares” and “this age” are inextricably tied together. They cannot be divorced. This is a reality that has existed since the fall. Cares, in the Bible, are restricted to this current “evil age.” They have no place in the age to come. That which is to come is always represented as unending bliss, perfection and peace.

In their theology, Premillennialism and Preterism welcome “the cares of this world (or age),” and every vice pertaining to it, into the “age to come,” thus negating the whole juxtapose between the two ages.

mkgal1 said:

Does that also mean that you've not read anything about the history of ancient Jerusalem and the war of the zealots in Josephus?

When a person comes to understand just how true Jesus' words are about Him fulfilling prophecy - it's awe inspiring. Until that point - the text of the Bible is a diluted message that lacks its full glory.

It's not that history is chosen over the Bible. History is an unbiased record of events. History *confirms* and reveals the Truth that's in the Bible. They're not at odds or competing. They go hand in hand beautifully.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18)​

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Perfection arrives with the age to come

Repeated Scripture equally tells us that the curse upon man will last until Christ returns. It also tells us that the current heavens and earth will one day be replaced by a new regenerated heavens and earth. That is because the current arrangement has been cursed by sin. As a consequence, our universe is finite and deteriorating, and its history will one day come to an end. All history currently sits in between creation and the consummation. The whole of Scripture (Old Testament and New Testament) looks forward to the day of restoration and perfection. As a result, all creation waits with eager anticipation for that glorious moment when corruption will be banished from all creation forever.

The deliverance of this earth occurs when we are finally delivered (caught up – and perfected). It is connected to our glorification. It is shown in Holy Writ as an event, not a process. The fiery destruction envelops this current earth and removes the corruption completely. We then return to a regenerated earth where there is no death or decay.

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming (parousia)? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Creation will be finally purged of wickedness, all the wicked, rebellion and all degeneration forever when Jesus comes. If the remedy for the corruption of the old heavens and earth is the introduction of a brand-new perfect heavens and earth then we are looking at an all-consummating reference to the destruction of the current globe and the existing heavens. The old arrangement that is marked by sin and insurrection is indeed destroyed by fire (as Peter said) and changed to a new glorified perfect arrangement “wherein dwelleth righteousness.” This allows no room for the continuation of unrighteousness or corruption, as Premils insists. Such is totally eliminated through the conflagration.

The new heavens and new earth are such a stark contrast to this current present evil age that is blighted by all the result of the fall, including the existence of Satan. The new arrangement is especially noted for “righteousness.”

Scripture tells us that we are coming back to earth, but it will be a regenerated earth (Malachi 4:1-3, I Corinthians 15:50, 2 Peter 3). It will be an earth totally purged of all deterioration. The new heavens and a new earth (in whatever form God chooses) will appear at the Coming of Christ. It will involve (at very least) the burning up of the crust of our current earth. This current earth will be totally changed/regenerated – making it a new curse-free environment. The earth will be restored to its previous pristine condition. These passages would sway me towards the position that this earth will remain forever – only in a new condition.

Job testified in Job 14:12-14, “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

Job is (by his own confession) including himself in the resurrection in view. He clearly identifies the great hope of the resurrection of the dead (which expressly here includes himself – an Old Testament saint) and places it at the time when the heavens (and therefore the current earth) pass away and consequently witness the appearance of the New Jerusalem at the last day. The word translated “till” here is the Hebrew word ad that is consistently interpreted “unto” or “even unto” elsewhere throughout the Old Testament. Therefore, we can rightly understand this passage as saying: “So man lieth down, and riseth not: even unto the heavens be no more.”

This passage corresponds with Job 19:25-27, where Job declares, “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.”

The same resurrection expectation is alluded to in both Job 14:12-14 and Job 19:25-27. That is why Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age.

There is no other earth than this present one that Job would have been familiar with. Job is looking forward to the day that he will be devoid of corruption and will stand upon a new glorified earth resplendent in his new glorified body.

Peter speaking to the religious Jews in Acts 3:19-21 confirms the concluding nature of the Second Advent, saying, “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he (God) shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution (apokatastasis or reconstitution) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world (or aion or age) began.”

This text takes us from the beginning to the end. It shows us that from the beginning of time God’s people have been looking of the glorious climactic return of Christ to usher in the end of time and decomposition. This covers the whole old covenant and new covenant era. This confirms that this age began” at the beginning of time, and terminates when Jesus comes. This totally negates the Preterist position.

The whole sense and meaning of the word apocatastasis here is ‘a restoration of things to its first state’ (or ‘to return to its former state’). Webster's 1828 Dictionary says, “’Restitution’ means ‘The act of recovering a former state or posture, the putting the world in a holy and happy state’.”

In everyday language, it refers to a return to the original place. For example, the return of a ship to its home port; in astronomy it meant the cyclical return of a planet to the point where it was found earlier; in medicine it meant the return of a patient to health (recovery).

The “last day” of this age is marked by cataclysmic change. The whole of creation will undergo a wholesale purge of all corruption. This involves the fiery renewal of the globe, the heavens and the elements. It sees the destruction of the wicked and all wickedness. It sees the glorification of the elect in order to equip them to populate the new perfected earth with Jesus.

Philippians 3:20-21 says, “we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall metaschematizo (or) change our vile body, that it may be summorphos (or) fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able (or, canst) hupotáxai (Strong’s 5293) (or) subdue (or subordinate) all things unto himself.”

Paul identifies the time of the subduing or subordinating of “all things unto himself” with the occasion of the Second Coming, which expressly sees the final act of redemption and the fulfilment of the glorification process. This is unquestionably the conclusion of history – the “times of restitution (or reconstitution) of all things.”

Dr. Alan Cairns in his ‘Dictionary of Theological Terms’ defines glorification as “The perfect conformity of the believer to the image of Jesus Christ, both in body and soul. It is the perfection of sanctification, when our body of humiliation will be conformed to the body of Christ’s glory (Philippians 3:21) and we shall be entirely “like Christ” (1 John 3:2). These texts place this event at the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.”

Constantly throughout the Word of God we see that “this present evil age” is equated with suffering and pain. The age to come is depicted as an eternal rest and safety. Romans 8:16-18 explains, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time (or kairos) are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall (or mello or hereafter) be revealed in us.”

There is a constant tension throughout the New Testament in regard to the imperfection of this age and the perfection of the age to come, the temporal nature of our current age and the eternal character of the age to come. The theme is consistent and well-defined. The phrase “this present time” found in this reading closely corresponds with the synonymous expression “this world/age” found throughout the New Testament to describe the here-and-now. It is a saying that is normally used when contrasting the imperfection of this current life to the bliss and glory of the approaching eternal state – “the world / age to come.” In fact, Scripture only knows of two ages – “this age” and the “age to come,” Scripture make no mention of, or allowance for, any imperfect semi-glorious/semi-corrupt transitional age in-between “this present time” or age and the eternal “age to come,” as Premils argue.

In this reading, Paul is simply comparing the testing and trials that God’s people currently endure in this current life, which is plagued with all the consequences of the fall, and the joy of the eternal state when Christ comes that is totally purged of the curse. The portrayal of this age correlates with Galatians 1:4 that labels “this present time” of “sufferings” as “this present evil age.” Paul speaks of a time when “the children of God” will be “glorified together” at His return. He assures his audience that the difficulties of this life are nothing “to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” when Christ appears. His whole focus is the glory that will be finally and eternally realized at Christ’s return.

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

The Greek word interpreted “vanity” in the KJV is the Greek word mataiotes meaning: 1) what is devoid of truth and appropriateness; 2) perverseness, depravity; 3) frailty, want of vigour. This embodies all consequences of sin on the earth.

God in His providence and infinite wisdom has ordained a day when He will finally bring time, evil and the bondage of corruption to an end. This passage speaks of an approaching climactic event in history that will eventually and eternally release all creation from a position of current anguish and despair to a place of total liberation and relief. In fact, there can be no doubt; the central focus of this whole passage is the yearning of “the whole creation” for the day when “the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” There is indeed a termination to the “bondage of corruption” – it is the one and only future all-consummating Coming of Christ.

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

R.C. Sproul expounds: “In this present darkness, the curse extends to the end of the earth— to our lives, to our labors, to our businesses, to our relationships. All suffer under the pangs of the curse of a fallen world. That’s why there’s a cosmic yearning, where all of creation groans together waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, waiting for that moment when the curse is removed.”

mkgal1 said:

Does that also mean that you've not read anything about the history of ancient Jerusalem and the war of the zealots in Josephus?

When a person comes to understand just how true Jesus' words are about Him fulfilling prophecy - it's awe inspiring. Until that point - the text of the Bible is a diluted message that lacks its full glory.

It's not that history is chosen over the Bible. History is an unbiased record of events. History *confirms* and reveals the Truth that's in the Bible. They're not at odds or competing. They go hand in hand beautifully.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18)​

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This earth has been gradually degenerating since the fall. That is why people lived a lot longer and why the earth would have probably produced a great deal more bountifully. Because of its degenerating state, creation will be regenerated and brought back to its pristine state. We see that in Psalm 102:25-27, which predicts, “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.”

This earth is depicted in Scripture as gradually decaying to such a stage that it needs replaced. The surface of this earth is metaphorically likened unto a well-worn overcoat that needs replaced with a brand-new spotless garment. This is shown throughout the sacred pages to occur at the second coming. Christ is not going to replace the current tattered earthly coat with another deteriorating coat, as Premillennialists imagine. No! But rather a new perfected garment.

We see that also in Hebrews 1:10-12 tells us, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old (palaioo) as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed (allasso): but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail."

These passages confirm the reality of the ongoing existence of the bondage of corruption. Comparing this earth to a fading and deteriorating garment, the writer tells us that the current heavens and earth is waxing old. The Greek word employed here for “wax old” is palaioo which means worn out, decaying or to declare obsolete.

These passages assure us that current imperfect decay earth/heavens is going to be replaced soon by a perfect arrangement. Creation is going to experience a supernatural overhaul because of its damaged and deficient character. The import here is of the current deteriorating and decaying heavens and earth being changed and replaced with a new non-decaying vesture. Of course, repeated Scripture locates this at the Second Coming of Christ.

The phrase “they shall be changed” in the Old Testament passage is taken from the Hebrew word chalaph: meaning to hasten away, pass on, or change. In the New Testament passage, it is taken from the Greek word allasso which means “to make different.” It is interesting to note the thrust of these 2 passages. They show the temporal nature of the current heavens and earth but the eternality of God’s goodness, faithfulness, years and salvation. This current corrupt earth has an expiration date.

1 Corinthians 13:8-13 parallels, “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect (or teleios) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away … For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”

The Greek word teleios (Strong’s 5046) which comes from the Greek word telos (Strong’s 5046), which we are very familiar with meaning ‘the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically, an impost or levy (as paid)’. It is speaking about the end – the consummation. In fact, the all-consummating Coming of Christ.

The limitations of this age are contrasted with the glory and the perfection of the age to come. After the Lord’s return, temporal gifts like prophecies, tongues and the gift of knowledge shall all vanish away. Why? We don’t need them anymore as we will have a full and perfect understanding of truth. However, “Charity never faileth.” A billion years into eternity we will still need love. We will love Christ throughout eternity. Love will never cease.

This age

(1) We know in part
(2) We see through a glass, darkly

The age to come

(1) “That which is in part shall be done away”
(2) “when that which is perfect is come … then shall I know even as also I am known.”

Revelation 20:11-15, 21:1-5 tells us: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.”

Revelation 22:3 tells us that the new heavens and new earth arrive “there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.”

The renewal of the earth is carefully tied to the renewal of fallen man; manifestly, as at the beginning so at the end. It is at this finishing stage that all the former consequences of the curse will be eternally removed from the elect through the glorification process. Moreover, this current earth will be simultaneously renewed by way of a fiery renewal.

Revelation 20:11-15, 21:1-5 and Revelation 22:3 describe the perfect conditions that are introduced when Jesus Christ returns. No one with any sanity could say that such a state exists today. It doesn’t! This only accompanies the glorification of this sin-cursed world, because justice has finally been executed upon sin. It is then and only then that there will be:

· No more death.
· No more crying.
· No more pain.
· No more sorrow.
· No more curse.

While the elect of God finally enters into eternal bless, the wicked correspondingly experience eternal torment. They are shown to be banished into everlasting punishment.

The Second Coming is all-consummating and ushers in the complete end of all things old, temporal, sinful and corrupt. His return introduces the beginning of all things new, eternal, righteous and God-glorifying.

mkgal1 said:

You criticized me for quoting others.

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BIG difference!!! You use the opinions of others to make your case. I very sparingly quote others to support what I've already written in detail.