Amazonian woman who led Vatican tree planting ceremony reveals it pagan significance

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

*You are in the Catholic forum*

The female indigenous leader who planted a tree alongside Pope Francis in the Vatican Gardens ahead of the Amazon Synod was clear from the beginning about the syncretistic and pagan meaning of the act which, she explains, was intended to "satisfy the hunger of Mother Earth" and reconnect with "the divinity present in the Amazonian soil."

Continued below.
Amazonian woman who led Vatican tree-planting ceremony reveals its pagan significance

DennisTate · Nov 9, 2019

Michie said:
*You are in the Catholic forum*

The female indigenous leader who planted a tree alongside Pope Francis in the Vatican Gardens ahead of the Amazon Synod was clear from the beginning about the syncretistic and pagan meaning of the act which, she explains, was intended to "satisfy the hunger of Mother Earth" and reconnect with "the divinity present in the Amazonian soil."

Continued below.
Amazonian woman who led Vatican tree-planting ceremony reveals its pagan significance

Personally...... I would tend to not be all that offended by this because all of us are living in a time period when we can somewhat identify with King Cyrus of the Medo-Persian Empire who is regarded as a "Messianic" figure by Jews........
but he gave freedom of religion to all one hundred and twenty seven provinces of the Medo-Persian Empire........ as well as decreed the rebuilding of the Temple of King Solomon which was accomplished by his grandson or great grandson through his daughter or grand daughter in law, Queen Hadassah / Esther!

Markie Boy · Nov 9, 2019

This video sums it up - the one world order agenda:

But help me with this. I have a hard time harmonizing the claims of what the papacy is, with the fountain of heresy coming out of it.

I'm not sold you can lean on the "Well they have not defined all this stuff as dogma, so all is still good."

Jesus said let your yes be yes, and no be no. What they are doing (and have done for decades now) is teaching and influencing the Christian world. You can't hide behind - "Well we didn't do all this junk ex-cathedra, etc.". They did it, it's done, and it's caused wreckage.

Many Catholic voices that a few years ago kept supporting the institution have stopped doing so. How long before these same voices say - oops - that Vatican I pronouncement, that wasn't quite right.

nonaeroterraqueous · Nov 9, 2019

I went to a Catholic museum exhibit at the Bowers, expecting to see a lot of Catholic memorabilia, but it was actually a collection of pagan religious artifacts from around the world. I guess it had been collected over the years as presents from pagans. In light of that, I found this story to be quite normal. I'm curious to hear Michie's take on it, as no opinion was offered.

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

nonaeroterraqueous said:
I went to a Catholic museum exhibit at the Bowers, expecting to see a lot of Catholic memorabilia, but it was actually a collection of pagan religious artifacts from around the world. I guess it had been collected over the years as presents from pagans. In light of that, I found this story to be quite normal. I'm curious to hear Michie's take on it, as no opinion was offered.

I stand by Fr. Mitch Pacwa and others when it comes to this controversy. The things said, done, and practiced during this time is inexcusable. The very fact they repeatedly try to whitewash it only magnifies that fact. We are not stupid.

EWTN’s Fr. Mitch Pacwa condemns Pachamama ‘worship’ at Amazon Synod

Markie Boy · Nov 9, 2019

I agree with that Michie - and it shows there are many truly un-saved people in positions of the clergy. Christians don't do what they are doing - even solid protestants know better.

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

Markie Boy said:
I agree with that Michie - and it shows there are many truly un-saved people in positions of the clergy. Christians don't do what they are doing - even solid protestants know better.

What gets me is begging for solid clarification for years by clergy and laity and getting absolutely nothing. You see something with your very eyes with clergy incorporating pagan symbols and practices and KNOWING what you are seeing and they fall all over themselves making lame excuses, doublespeak, whitewashing, calling those that disagree racist, climate deniers, etc. Continuing to explain why we are wrong. This Scripture twisting, and talking out of both sides of their mouths is not something I have much patience with.

Markie Boy · Nov 9, 2019

I agree. I had a recent conversation about Dan Schutte music with clergy. I told them he's a former Jesuit now living an "alternative" lifestyle, and I think it's wrong to use music to praise God, from someone rebelling against God. Dead wrong.

I was told it's beautiful music, and most people don't know the truth of the source. It bothers me because I do, but not them because they are ignorant I am told, so it's OK for them and we don't change. Isn't it our job to educate them rather than keep them ignorant?

I think our goal should be to educate and correct. Apparently the Church thinks our goal is to keep people ignorant and not call them to change.

Is that really "The Church?"

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

You keep asking the same questions. I guess that's up to you to decide. The Church is full of sinners. Always has been. What disturbs me is trying to normalize it as part of the faith.

Markie Boy said:
I agree. I had a recent conversation about Dan Schutte music with clergy. I told them he's a former Jesuit now living an "alternative" lifestyle, and I think it's wrong to use music to praise God, from someone rebelling against God. Dead wrong.

I was told it's beautiful music, and most people don't know the truth of the source. It bothers me because I do, but not them because they are ignorant I am told, so it's OK for them and we don't change. Isn't it our job to educate them rather than keep them ignorant?

I think our goal should be to educate and correct. Apparently the Church thinks our goal is to keep people ignorant and not call them to change.

Is that really "The Church?"

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Nov 9, 2019

Michie said:
This Scripture twisting, and talking out of both sides of their mouths is not something I have much patience with.

But you have, if not you'd be long gone by now. Personally I'm sick and disgusted with the Vatican. I wouldn't trust them with my car keyes, then why should I place them as shepherds of my immortal soul? It doesnt make much sense.

I've been thinking of officially leaving the church. It's mostly a bureaucratic way of expressing my disgust for this, development in Rome. As for now I'll go to mass, but by not being registered in the church's protocols I'll strip them for $150 a year, which is a rather good feeling.

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

Well, I'm more than disillusioned myself. But I can't see myself going back to Protestanism at this point. I'm a Christian to my core even if I am a bad one at times. Do I feel that way about Catholicism? No, I have not arrived yet. But I'm not peeking over any fences at this point. The Catechism of the Church helps me along with Scriptures. I'm more than disgusted with the things we see being condoned and practiced by clergy and trying to justify it with cheap doublespeak. But I have not given up yet.

Stabat Mater said:
But you have, if not you'd be long gone by now. Personally I'm sick and disgusted with the Vatican. I wouldn't trust them with my car keyes, then why should I place them as shepherds of my immortal soul? It doesnt make much sense.

I've been thinking of officially leaving the church. It's mostly a bureaucratic way of expressing my disgust for this, development in Rome. As for now I'll go to mass, but by not being registered in the church's protocols I'll strip them for $150 a year, which is a rather good feeling.

The resentment I'm feeling towards the pope and the Vatican is indescribable.

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

Stabat Mater said:
But you have, if not you'd be long gone by now. Personally I'm sick and disgusted with the Vatican. I wouldn't trust them with my car keyes, then why should I place them as shepherds of my immortal soul? It doesnt make much sense.

I've been thinking of officially leaving the church. It's mostly a bureaucratic way of expressing my disgust for this, development in Rome. As for now I'll go to mass, but by not being registered in the church's protocols I'll strip them for $150 a year, which is a rather good feeling.

Oh and a point about shepherds of our immortal soul.... while I believe our clergy can be a guide to a point, I believe it is people like us that are actually the lucky ones. We do our work and try to know our Faith. It is the Catholics that are trying to makes the Pope as infallible in all things, including error and making the same lame excuses that should be more than a little concerned. This circus of jumping through hoops to validate the stupid things they have done during the Amazon Synod while ignoring the Dubia, etc. shows where their concerns seem to lie at this point. With the world. Like Pope Francis said: He welcomes criticism. From all us rigid Catholics in the pews.

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Nov 9, 2019

Yeah, I'm christian to my core aswell and I'll never leave Christ for anything in the world. If I end up in hell as I die its because I failed to live out my faith and failed to give The Holy Spirit the place in my life that He deserves and I failed to love my neighbors. It will not be over apostasy and disbelief.

I share some of the struggles that Martin Luther did. I'm afraid of my own holiness and its relation with my afterlife, not that of Christ and his redeeming work.

Its because of my faith that I'm not longer comfortable in the church. I cannot in good conscience remain officially in the registers of the church. I know that the catechism tells us that our conscience unguided by holy mother church is like a loose canon, but I dont know. Something within my heart tells me that I have to depart for the sake of my eternity.

I can rationally explain it by the irreverence and the heresy flowing from Rome and I wholeheartedly support the view put fourth by Markie Boy.

The conscience... when it kind of yells at me I cannot go on and ignore it forever. If I do and I get judged over this in front of the judgement seat of Christ at the final day I'll have no excuse.

I'm in a predicament however. As you imply, the protestant sects are of little or no value. It's a wasteland for sure. I'm catholic in all other parts except from the papacy.
I'm an orphan, I'm a catholic without a church.

I've over and over again considered Holy Orthodoxy, but it doenst seem right. I'm not fancying their sung liturgy nor am I pro russian or whatnot. It's odd and foreign and if I convert I'll feel deceitful as I'm still adhering to the catholic doctrine and dogmas. I fully believe in the Filioque etc.

It's so strange to feel that I have to leave, but I have nowhere to go. It's very depressing and frustrating, but perhaps I have to walk the desert for some time, perhaps the rest of my earthy life who knows?

I'll go to confession and communion as long as my conscience allows me to, but if the day comes that I no longer feel like I'm able to I'll just trust that the Lord looks after me and guides me as best he can. My job is to listen carefully and pray.

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

Stabat Mater said:
Yeah, I'm christian to my core aswell and I'll never leave Christ for anything in the world. If I end up in hell as I die its because I failed to live out my faith and failed to give The Holy Spirit the place in my life that He deserves and I failed to love my neighbors. It will not be over apostasy and disbelief.

I share some of the struggles that Martin Luther did. I'm afraid of my own holiness and its relation with my afterlife, not that of Christ and his redeeming work.

Its because of my faith that I'm not longer comfortable in the church. I cannot in good conscience remain officially in the registers of the church. I know that the catechism tells us that our conscience unguided by holy mother church is like a loose canon, but I dont know. Something within my heart tells me that I have to depart for the sake of my eternity.

I can rationally explain it by the irreverence and the heresy flowing from Rome and I wholeheartedly support the view put fourth by Markie Boy.

The conscience... when it kind of yells at me I cannot go on and ignore it forever. If I do and I get judged over this in front of the judgement seat of Christ at the final day I'll have no excuse.

I'm in a predicament however. As you imply, the protestant sects are of little or no value. It's a wasteland for sure. I'm catholic in all other parts except from the papacy.
I'm an orphan, I'm a catholic without a church.

I've over and over again considered Holy Orthodoxy, but it doenst seem right. I'm not fancying their sung liturgy nor am I pro russian or whatnot. It's odd and foreign and if I convert I'll feel deceitful as I'm still adhering to the catholic doctrine and dogmas. I fully believe in the Filioque etc.

It's so strange to feel that I have to leave, but I have nowhere to go. It's very depressing and frustrating, but perhaps I have to walk the desert for some time, perhaps the rest of my earthy life who knows?

I'll go to confession and communion as long as my conscience allows me to, but if the day comes that I no longer feel like I'm able to I'll just trust that the Lord looks after me and guides me as best he can. My job is to listen carefully and pray.

You put that beautifully Stabat and I understand where you are coming from. It is my understanding that if you leave the Church, not realizing it holds the fullness of Faith then you will be judged according those standards. It when you willfully leave knowing that she is the Church that holds the fullness of Faith that you have reason to worry. I feel like I am in that same limbo. Many of us are. I don't know anymore. I do not understand what we are seeing and what the purpose of it is. Explanations are given when they are not needed and ignored where they are needed. You feel like you are being conned after awhile. So we are left floating in this uncertainty of knowing what to do. I will pray for you. Please pray for me as well.

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Nov 9, 2019

Michie said:
You put that beautifully Stabat and I understand where you are coming from. It is my understanding that if you leave the Church, not realizing it holds the fullness of Faith then you will be judged according those standards. It when you willfully leave knowing that she is the Church that holds the fullness of Faith that you have reason to worry. I feel like I am in that same limbo. Many of us are. I don't know anymore. I do not understand what we are seeing and what the purpose of it is. Explanations are given when they are not needed and ignored where they are needed. You feel like you are being conned after awhile. So we are left floating in this uncertainty of knowing what to do. I will pray for you. Please pray for me as well.

Always Michie :crossrc:

Gnarwhal · Nov 9, 2019

Michie said:
*You are in the Catholic forum*

The female indigenous leader who planted a tree alongside Pope Francis in the Vatican Gardens ahead of the Amazon Synod was clear from the beginning about the syncretistic and pagan meaning of the act which, she explains, was intended to "satisfy the hunger of Mother Earth" and reconnect with "the divinity present in the Amazonian soil."

Continued below.
Amazonian woman who led Vatican tree-planting ceremony reveals its pagan significance

Hopefully we get another faithful Catholic in there who burns the tree and rips it from the Earth. How dare those invaders desecrate the Holy See, and how dare the Holy Father allow it.

chevyontheriver · Nov 9, 2019

Michie said:
*You are in the Catholic forum*

The female indigenous leader who planted a tree alongside Pope Francis in the Vatican Gardens ahead of the Amazon Synod was clear from the beginning about the syncretistic and pagan meaning of the act which, she explains, was intended to "satisfy the hunger of Mother Earth" and reconnect with "the divinity present in the Amazonian soil."

Continued below.
Amazonian woman who led Vatican tree-planting ceremony reveals its pagan significance

We need another St. Boniface to chop down the pagan tree.

Chrystal-J · Nov 9, 2019

Sounds like the Vatican is going off the rails. Trying too hard to be 'socially acceptable', instead of biblically correct. We must pray for the Church--for it's survival and that it may be led by Jesus Himself.
I've been to some very liberal churches with friends and wondered what I was doing there. They seemed to be celebrating everything but Christ. So, I had to hunt to find a church with bible based service. I know Catholics aren't supposed to be 'sola scriptura', but I do test a church by how it follows scripture. Because it says in 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Markie Boy · Nov 9, 2019

Stabat Mater said:
Yeah, I'm christian to my core aswell and I'll never leave Christ for anything in the world. If I end up in hell as I die its because I failed to live out my faith and failed to give The Holy Spirit the place in my life that He deserves and I failed to love my neighbors. It will not be over apostasy and disbelief.

I share some of the struggles that Martin Luther did. I'm afraid of my own holiness and its relation with my afterlife, not that of Christ and his redeeming work.

Its because of my faith that I'm not longer comfortable in the church. I cannot in good conscience remain officially in the registers of the church. I know that the catechism tells us that our conscience unguided by holy mother church is like a loose canon, but I dont know. Something within my heart tells me that I have to depart for the sake of my eternity.

I can rationally explain it by the irreverence and the heresy flowing from Rome and I wholeheartedly support the view put fourth by Markie Boy.

The conscience... when it kind of yells at me I cannot go on and ignore it forever. If I do and I get judged over this in front of the judgement seat of Christ at the final day I'll have no excuse.

I'm in a predicament however. As you imply, the protestant sects are of little or no value. It's a wasteland for sure. I'm catholic in all other parts except from the papacy.
I'm an orphan, I'm a catholic without a church.

I've over and over again considered Holy Orthodoxy, but it doenst seem right. I'm not fancying their sung liturgy nor am I pro russian or whatnot. It's odd and foreign and if I convert I'll feel deceitful as I'm still adhering to the catholic doctrine and dogmas. I fully believe in the Filioque etc.

It's so strange to feel that I have to leave, but I have nowhere to go. It's very depressing and frustrating, but perhaps I have to walk the desert for some time, perhaps the rest of my earthy life who knows?

I'll go to confession and communion as long as my conscience allows me to, but if the day comes that I no longer feel like I'm able to I'll just trust that the Lord looks after me and guides me as best he can. My job is to listen carefully and pray.

You are right on Stabat. We share the same struggle. It is my want to follow Christ that is causing my discomfort with the RCC. Following the RCC is not feeling like following Christ to me.

It's quite an inner conflict. And I too feel like a Christian without a home. Orthodoxy is something that is physically not present where I am, but I am drawn to somewhat. Orthodoxy seems wonderful in many ways, but quite troubling in others. I don't know that it's really an answer.

But seriously I struggle to go to Mass every week. I have yet to have a Catholic pastor that I feel I can trust theologically. They all have this modernism flavor that obscures the truth.

That leaves you functionally on your own to learn and grow.

And I wonder if the RCC has just gone too far with the idea that doctrine develops, and it's caused them to loose some of the most basic, Apostolic ways. I believe there is nothing wrong with simply taking a break and step away - an into the wilderness to pray type of break. If it's to find peace to go forward, it probably pleases God. Here is where I don't believe the legalistic "if you miss Mass once you are in mortal sin and going to Hell" perspective. If you miss because you are searching for peace and direction is different than skipping for a football game.

If you need a laugh - as we all do these days - check this out:

Michie · Nov 9, 2019

Markie Boy said:
You are right on Stabat. We share the same struggle. It is my want to follow Christ that is causing my discomfort with the RCC. Following the RCC is not feeling like following Christ to me.

It's quite an inner conflict. And I too feel like a Christian without a home. Orthodoxy is something that is physically not present where I am, but I am drawn to somewhat. Orthodoxy seems wonderful in many ways, but quite troubling in others. I don't know that it's really an answer.

But seriously I struggle to go to Mass every week. I have yet to have a Catholic pastor that I feel I can trust theologically. They all have this modernism flavor that obscures the truth.

That leaves you functionally on your own to learn and grow.

And I wonder if the RCC has just gone too far with the idea that doctrine develops, and it's caused them to loose some of the most basic, Apostolic ways. I believe there is nothing wrong with simply taking a break and step away - an into the wilderness to pray type of break. If it's to find peace to go forward, it probably pleases God. Here is where I don't believe the legalistic "if you miss Mass once you are in mortal sin and going to Hell" perspective. If you miss because you are searching for peace and direction is different than skipping for a football game.

If you need a laugh - as we all do these days - check this out:

I watched that last night in TAW.

I lurk there on occasion.

Amazonian woman who led Vatican tree planting ceremony reveals it pagan significance

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