Pope’s go-to interviewer now claims Francis denies Jesus’ bodily resurrection

redleghunter

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Pope’s go-to interviewer now claims Francis denies Jesus’ bodily resurrection


ROME, November 7, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – Pope Francis’ favored Italian interviewer Eugenio Scalfari is now claiming that the Pope told him that Jesus did not have a bodily resurrection after His passion and death on the cross, but that the man “disappeared” and he came forth from the tomb “in the semblance of a spirit.”

The Pope has granted numerous interviews to Scalfari that have stirred confusion and questions about the Pope’s beliefs. So far, the Pope himself has not issued any personal denial or clarification in the wake of Scalfari’s claims and has not said he will stop granting interviews to the atheist journalist.


Writing in the Italian daily La Repubblica on Tuesday (see full Italian text here), Scalfari related what Pope Francis allegedly told him about the Resurrection of Jesus.

“He was a man until he was placed in the tomb by the women who recomposed his body. That night, in the tomb, the man disappeared and came forth from the grotto in the semblance of a spirit that met the women and the Apostles while still preserving the shadow of the person, and then he definitely disappeared.”

The bodily resurrection of Christ from the dead is a central tenet of the Christian faith. St. Paul told the Corinthians that "if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (1 Cor. 15:14).

The above quote attributed to the Pope appears in Scalfari’s new book Il Dio unico e la società moderna: Incontri con papa Francesco e il cardinale Carlo Maria Martini ("The One God and Modern Society: Meetings With Pope Francis and Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini").

Last month, Scalfari claimed that Pope Francis had denied the divinity of Jesus. Scalfari claimed that the Pope “conceives Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, a man, not God incarnate. Once incarnated, Jesus ceases to be a God and becomes a man until his death on the cross.”

The journalist continued, saying: “When I happened to discuss these phrases, Pope Francis told me: ‘They are the definite proof that Jesus of Nazareth, once he became a man, even if he was a man of exceptional virtue, was not God at all.’”


This prompted Matteo Bruni of the Vatican press office to issue a clarification: “As already stated on other occasions, the words that Dr. Eugenio Scalfari attributes in quotation marks to the Holy Father during conversations with him cannot be considered as a faithful account of what has actually been said, but rather represent a personal and free interpretation of what he has heard, as is quite evident from what has been written today about the divinity of Jesus Christ.”

Italian journalist Antonio Socci expressed shock about the comments about Jesus' Ressurection attributed to the Pope: “Scalfari continues to attribute to Bergoglio quotes that contain unheard-of theological enormities and no one from the Vatican cares in the least of denying, nor do they tell Scalfari to stop. Catholics think: those who keep silent agree.”

More of the “Is the Pope Catholic” series at the link: Pope’s go-to interviewer now claims Francis denies Jesus’ bodily resurrection
 

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Pope Francis’ favored Italian interviewer Eugenio Scalfari is now claiming that the Pope told him that Jesus did not have a bodily resurrection after His passion and death on the cross, but that the man “disappeared” and he came forth from the tomb “in the semblance of a spirit.”
If this statement is accurate, it means that this pope fails THE TEST.
 
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I'm no fan of the pope, but I'm also not one to shun another denomination who preaches Jesus Christ is Lord.

Now if this was a transgression, and he repented, what do you make of this scripture?


Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
 
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ilovechloe

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It's inaccurate. It's Scalfari. Already known for this type of deceit.
Its probably true, or the Pope would have denied it. The fact that he needs to be driven around in a bulletproof 'popemobile' shows that he knows that God doesn't have his back!
 
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Bob Crowley

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I'd be cynical about a single source quote (and atheist at that) when nobody else has said one word about this alleged opinion of Pope Francis in relation to the divinity of Christ, supposedly expressed in private to an atheist journalist. Maybe Pope Francis thinks it's not worth defending as it's so absurd. In any case it will be a seven day wonder.

Its probably true, or the Pope would have denied it. The fact that he needs to be driven around in a bulletproof 'popemobile' shows that he knows that God doesn't have his back!

Here's one occasion when he was not driven around in the bulletproof 'popemobile', and he was threatened by Al Qaeda, no less.

Pope defies death threats to greet pilgrims

It's also a matter of record that Pope John Paul II was very nearly the victim of a successful murder attempt. But then I seem to remember the first "Pope", Saint Peter was crucified upside down. So being Pope isn't some sort of guarantee he can't be killed.

List of popes who died violently - Wikipedia

It's noteworthy that by the year 310, 30 Popes had been martyred, out of 40 or less, hardly a guarantee that being Pope meant a bulletproof existence.

But then there are those who think the Church should have remained an underground, unofficial, persecuted religion, not protected by Constantine's conversion in or about 312AD, while they themselves have the luxury of being protected by a society which recognises Christianity and the Church, and even favours the church in some respects.
 
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SkyWriting

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Pope’s go-to interviewer now claims Francis denies Jesus’ bodily resurrection


ROME, November 7, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – Pope Francis’ favored Italian interviewer Eugenio Scalfari is now claiming that the Pope told him that Jesus did not have a bodily resurrection after His passion and death on the cross, but that the man “disappeared” and he came forth from the tomb “in the semblance of a spirit.”

The Pope has granted numerous interviews to Scalfari that have stirred confusion and questions about the Pope’s beliefs. So far, the Pope himself has not issued any personal denial or clarification in the wake of Scalfari’s claims and has not said he will stop granting interviews to the atheist journalist.


Writing in the Italian daily La Repubblica on Tuesday (see full Italian text here), Scalfari related what Pope Francis allegedly told him about the Resurrection of Jesus.

“He was a man until he was placed in the tomb by the women who recomposed his body. That night, in the tomb, the man disappeared and came forth from the grotto in the semblance of a spirit that met the women and the Apostles while still preserving the shadow of the person, and then he definitely disappeared.”

The bodily resurrection of Christ from the dead is a central tenet of the Christian faith. St. Paul told the Corinthians that "if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (1 Cor. 15:14).

The above quote attributed to the Pope appears in Scalfari’s new book Il Dio unico e la società moderna: Incontri con papa Francesco e il cardinale Carlo Maria Martini ("The One God and Modern Society: Meetings With Pope Francis and Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini").

Last month, Scalfari claimed that Pope Francis had denied the divinity of Jesus. Scalfari claimed that the Pope “conceives Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, a man, not God incarnate. Once incarnated, Jesus ceases to be a God and becomes a man until his death on the cross.”

The journalist continued, saying: “When I happened to discuss these phrases, Pope Francis told me: ‘They are the definite proof that Jesus of Nazareth, once he became a man, even if he was a man of exceptional virtue, was not God at all.’”


This prompted Matteo Bruni of the Vatican press office to issue a clarification: “As already stated on other occasions, the words that Dr. Eugenio Scalfari attributes in quotation marks to the Holy Father during conversations with him cannot be considered as a faithful account of what has actually been said, but rather represent a personal and free interpretation of what he has heard, as is quite evident from what has been written today about the divinity of Jesus Christ.”

Italian journalist Antonio Socci expressed shock about the comments about Jesus' Ressurection attributed to the Pope: “Scalfari continues to attribute to Bergoglio quotes that contain unheard-of theological enormities and no one from the Vatican cares in the least of denying, nor do they tell Scalfari to stop. Catholics think: those who keep silent agree.”

More of the “Is the Pope Catholic” series at the link: Pope’s go-to interviewer now claims Francis denies Jesus’ bodily resurrection


I'm not sure about the other claims, but Jesus resurrected body did have spiritual properties, like instant transportation, possible invisibility or the ability to not be seen...and it did float into the sky at the end......so to claim it was a Spirit Body is not a problem. It was certainly changed.
 
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ilovechloe

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I'd be cynical about a single source quote (and atheist at that) when nobody else has said one word about this alleged opinion of Pope Francis in relation to the divinity of Christ, supposedly expressed in private to an atheist journalist. Maybe Pope Francis thinks it's not worth defending as it's so absurd. In any case it will be a seven day wonder.

Here's one occasion when he was not driven around in the bulletproof 'popemobile', and he was threatened by Al Qaeda, no less.

Pope defies death threats to greet pilgrims

It's also a matter of record that Pope John Paul II was very nearly the victim of a successful murder attempt. But then I seem to remember the first "Pope", Saint Peter was crucified upside down. So being Pope isn't some sort of guarantee he can't be killed.

List of popes who died violently - Wikipedia

It's noteworthy that by the year 310, 30 Popes had been martyred, out of 40 or less, hardly a guarantee that being Pope meant a bulletproof existence.

But then there are those who think the Church should have remained an underground, unofficial, persecuted religion, not protected by Constantine's conversion in or about 312AD, while they themselves have the luxury of being protected by a society which recognises Christianity and the Church, and even favours the church in some respects.
I am very cynical about all these popes who supposedly died martyrs. It seems that practically every pope in the 1st 300 years died a martyr! The persecution of Christians by Rome is vastly overstated. Just a case of the church writing its own history I think, which they freely did when they were made the official religion of the Roman empire in the 4th century.
 
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redleghunter

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I'm not sure about the other claims, but Jesus resurrected body did have spiritual properties, like instant transportation, possible invisibility or the ability to not be seen...and it did float into the sky at the end......so to claim it was a Spirit Body is not a problem. It was certainly changed.
Not what the article really addresses.
 
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redleghunter

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I'd be cynical about a single source quote (and atheist at that) when nobody else has said one word about this alleged opinion of Pope Francis in relation to the divinity of Christ, supposedly expressed in private to an atheist journalist. Maybe Pope Francis thinks it's not worth defending as it's so absurd. In any case it will be a seven day wonder.
This seems to be someone the Pope is comfortable giving interviews. You would think some Pope handlers would sit in on the interviews. Or the journalist is just making this stuff up. Or at his age is no longer sharp.
 
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redleghunter

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Its probably true, or the Pope would have denied it. The fact that he needs to be driven around in a bulletproof 'popemobile' shows that he knows that God doesn't have his back!
Now that’s funny.
 
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redleghunter

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It's noteworthy that by the year 310, 30 Popes had been martyred, out of 40 or less, hardly a guarantee that being Pope meant a bulletproof existence.
How many were martyred by rival bishops?
 
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redleghunter

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I am very cynical about all these popes who supposedly died martyrs. It seems that practically every pope in the 1st 300 years died a martyr! The persecution of Christians by Rome is vastly overstated. Just a case of the church writing its own history I think, which they freely did when they were made the official religion of the Roman empire in the 4th century.
The persecution was not overstated in the first 150 years of the church. In that era you had to publicly proclaim Caesar as lord, when the earliest creeds proclaimed Christ is King.
 
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The persecution was not overstated in the first 150 years of the church. In that era you had to publicly proclaim Caesar as lord, when the earliest creeds proclaimed Christ is King.
The persecution was not overstated in the first 150 years of the church. In that era you had to publicly proclaim Caesar as lord, when the earliest creeds proclaimed Christ is King.
Hah the holocaust is talked about more than the crusades the Ottoman Empire and Christian persecution by Rome. Though Nero was quite the character.
 
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ilovechloe

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It's noteworthy that by the year 310, 30 Popes had been martyred, out of 40 or less, hardly a guarantee that being Pope meant a bulletproof existence.
is there any evidence of these popes having been martyred outside the church? I mean, are there any non-Christian historians from around the period who can confirm if even 1/4 of these martyrdoms are true?
 
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Bob Crowley

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I lifted the following list of persecuting emperors from this link.

Persecution in the Early Church

At least since the fifth century, it has been customary to count ten major persecutions in the early church, a number that nicely parallels the ten plagues of Egypt. {12} These ten persecutions are:

  • Persecution under Nero (c. 64-68). Traditional martyrdoms of Peter and Paul.
  • Persecution under Domitian (r. 81-96).
  • Persecution under Trajan (112-117). Christianity is outlawed but Christians are not sought out.
  • Persecution under Marcus Aurelius (r. 161-180). Martyrdom of Polycarp.
  • Persecution under Septimus Severus (202-210). Martyrdom of Perpetua.
  • Persecution under Decius (250-251). Christians are actively sought out by requiring public sacrifice. Could buy certificates (libelli) instead of sacrificing. Martyrdoms of bishops of Rome, Jerusalem and Antioch.
  • Persecution under Valerian (257-59). Martyrdoms of Cyprian of Carthage and Sixtus II of Rome.
  • Persecution under Maximinus the Thracian (235-38).
  • Persecution under Aurelian (r. 270–275).
  • Severe persecution under Diocletian and Galerius (303-324).

The Popes or the Bishops of Rome would have been prime targets. They were right in the Emperor's home town, and as leaders would have been singled out for "special treatment"

Looking at the list below, the Popes fall into the time brackets of the Emperors as shown. In some cases, their martyrdom fell outside the major persecutions, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be martyrs. Christianity wasn't popular at the best of times, and was seen as a threat to the well being of the empire.

If we consider the emperors themselves had somewhat limited chances of dying of natural causes, then we can hardly be surprised if a religion seen as an enemy of the empire endured persecution, and especially those perceived to be its leaders.

Veni, Vidi, Gone: A Death Map of Roman Emperors

MY COMPARISON OF EMPERORS AND MARTYRED POPES BY TIME LINE

NERO - 64 -68
  • Saint Peter (c.67), traditionally martyred by crucifixion[3]
UNKNOWN
  • Pope Linus (Saint) (c.67-c.76)[4][5]
DOMITIAN 81-96
  • Pope Anacletus or Cletus (Saint) (c.79-c.92)[6][4]

UNKNOWN

  • Pope Clement I (Saint) (c.92-c.99), thrown into sea with anchor around his neck[4]
  • Pope Evaristus (c.99-c.108);[4][5] not listed in the Roman Martyrology
  • Pope Alexander I (Saint) (c.106-c.119);[4][5] recognition as the martyred Saint Alexander (feast day May 3) rescinded in 1960
  • Pope Sixtus I (Saint) (c.119-c.128)[4][5]
  • Pope Telesphorus (Saint) (c.128-c.138)[4][7]
MARCUS AURELIUS 161-180-
  • Pope Anicetus (Saint) (155-166), traditionally martyred.[4]
  • Pope Soter (Saint) (166-175), died a martyr [4]

UNKNOWN

  • Pope Eleuterus (Saint) (175-189), died a martyr [4]
  • Pope Victor I (Saint) 189-199, died a martyr [4]
  • Pope Calixtus I (Saint) (217-222), died a martyr [4]
  • Pope Urban I (Saint) 222-230, died a martyr [4]
  • Pope Pontian (Saint) 230-235, condemned to mines in Sardinia and died on island of Tavolara[4]

MAXIMUS (not in above list)

  • Pope Anterus (Saint) Elected 235-12-21, martyred at hands of Emperor Maximus [4]

DECIUS - 250-251

  • Pope Fabian (Saint) Elected 236-1-10 and died a martyr during persecution and Decapitated by Decius.[4]
  • Pope Cornelius (Saint) Elected March 251 and died a martyr June 253.[4]
  • Pope Lucius I (Saint) Elected 253-6-25 and martyred 254-3-5.[4]
  • Pope Stephen I (Saint) Elected 254-5-12 and martyred 257-8-2.[4][1]

VALERIAN 257 - 259

  • Pope Sixtus II (Saint) Elected 257-8-30 and martyred 258-8-6.[4]
  • Pope Dionysius (Saint) Elected 259-7-22 after year of persecutions and died 268-12-26, martyred [4]

AURELIAN 270-275

  • Pope Felix I (Saint) Elected 269-1-5 and died 274-12-30, martyred [4]
UNKNOWN
  • Pope Eutychian (Saint) Elected 275-1-4 and martyred 283-12-7.[4]
  • Pope Caius (Saint) Elected 283-12-17 and martyred 296-4-22, but not at hands of his uncle, Diocletian [4]
DIOCLETIAN AND HIS SON GALERIUS 303- 324
  • Pope Marcellinus (Saint) Elected 296-6-30 and martyred 304-10-25 during persecution of Diocletian [4]
  • Pope Marcellus I (Saint) Elected 308-5-27 after 4-year vacancy and martyred 309-1-16.[4]
  • Pope Eusebius (Saint) Elected 309-4-18 and martyred in Sicily 309-8-17.[4][8]

MARTYRED BY LATER NON-EMPERORS

  • Pope John I (Saint), Elected August 13, 523, during the Ostrogothic occupation of the Italian peninsula. Was sent as an envoy by Ostrogoth king Theodoric to Constantinople. Upon return, Theodoric accused John I of conspiracy with the Byzantine empire. Imprisoned and starved to death on 18 May 526.[4]
  • Pope Martin I (Saint) Elected in 649. Died in exile 655-9-16
 
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