What does the Bible teach about physical abuse?

InterestedAtheist said:

Rationalisation.


To be honest, I rather missed the part where you provided any answer at all, except for a string of ad hoc rationalisations for why Christians refuse to pray for a real miracle.


But of course I know what Christians pray for. It's not that difficult. It's not like it's a Church secret. A very good example is just to go over to the Prayer Wall. Tried that yet? It's most interesting. Since you have not yet addressed this, I shall say it again: can you find any prayers over there for anything that could not happen unless God existed? Or are all of the prayers for things which could happen in a universe in which there was no God. "Please God, help me/my loved one to recover from an illness." "Please pray for me to get a job." "Please pray for me, I've lost my car keys."
People get over illnesses all the time. People get jobs all the time. People find lost things all the time. Where are the Christians praying for world cancer to end immediately? For loved ones to come back from the dead? For all the hungry people in the world to be fed - not "one day", but now?
God split the seas. He multiplied bread and fish. He led the Israelites out of slavery. God has done miracles in stories - but never in real life.

You know what I think the reason for that is. I wonder what you think the reason for that is?

So, Sanoy, put your money where your mouth is: find me some Christians praying for bona fide miracles.

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I gave you a reason why it wasn't for the whole world, which is also obvious from the text. You give me an assertion that it is and then complain I have reasons for what I claimed? Yeah, that sounds about right.

I gave you a theological reason written 2,000 years ago. Do you actually know what ad hoc means? Here's a word to look up, burden of proof. I have given a theological exception, you can get angry at me, but I didn't write it.

Your entire survey of Christianity comes from a prayer wall. Let that sink in. Let me know when you are ready to be credible.

BigV said:

You are ignoring the fact that Baal too had to perform. The test of a true God is that on demand, he/she/it must act, if their existence is doubted.

You have, once again, came up with an excuse. But the reality, that you most likely recognize too, is that even if an Israelite today asks for God to appear, he will appear the same way he did during the WW2.

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I don't understand your objection. Why does anything you just said make this a test for the world? Did any other nation have a religious regime change after this?

I study the Bible and the ANE at the scholarly level. What you call excuse is simply prior research. Where is your research? What is your excuse for the lack of it? All you have for the truth is contempt.

BigV said:

With your apologetic for Yahweh, how can you not be a theist for every other religion? All of the Gods work the same way today as Yahweh works today!

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I have no idea what you are talking about here.

BigV said:

Is a religious regime change a sign of a true God?

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God sets the boundaries for all such changes.

BigV said:

Oh, I love the truth. You are wrong about contempt for the truth claim. All I know at this point, is that FAITH is the least reliable way to get to the truth, because by FAITH, you can accept anything.

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Not true. "not truth".
FAITH (trusting in Yahuweh and relying always on Him) cannot and does not accept anything of the world, of the flesh, of the devil,
nor in any way contradictory to God's Word.

faith might - faith in the devil, faith in men, faith is an idol...

but not FAITH.

BigV said:

Is a religious regime change a sign of a true God?


Oh, I love the truth. You are wrong about contempt for the truth claim. All I know at this point, is that FAITH is the least reliable way to get to the truth, because by FAITH, you can accept anything.



I'm saying that with your excuses for Yahweh being real but not doing anything can work for any Gods of human history. It even works for made up and imaginary deities and superheroes.

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Lo! Can it be? Have you returned my request for evidence of your claim of regional scope with a question? Do you ever have any intentions of backing up your claims or are questions all any of us can ever expect from you?

No one who loves the truth complains about context and throws a fit of complaint every time their conclusion doesn't make it. Christian faith is trust, not blind belief.

Well what you are saying is a strawman because I never said that. So that is 1 question instead of an answer, and 1 strawman. You made par again and upheld the status quo.

BigV said:

Wrong. It is blind belief, because you must accept that Jesus' promises are true even as you see no evidence of it being true. All you have a questionable 'testimonies'.

I've shown you how creative Christians are. There are all sorts of Christians holding to contradictory beliefs on God's working today. You have some, like MacArthur, who teach that miracles have ceased and you have Benny Hinns and the like who not only disbelieve cessationism, but claim to work these very miracles today.

I know Christians who can't do no miracles and they are true believers. If you care about truth, it's just not possible to take the Bible literally.

Context for those of you who agree with the reality, means explaining away the non-working promises of Jesus. The only problem, of course, is that now you have nothing left, because the promises you can't verify, when applied the same 'context', mean you can't be saved either.

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Faith is trust in God's character. You are incorrect.

In every instance where you have complained over a difference in belief on scripture it has been the Christian who looks into the surrounding context and grammar and it has been you doing nothing but stomping their feet and complaining. Whenever you are pushed you have nothing in response but to ask questions. There is no lack in clarity over who loves the truth and who despises it.

BigV said:

You know about God's character how??? From writings and promises that are false.



Uhm. no it hasn't! There were Christians spinsters looking at ways to make the text mean absolutely ANYTHING other than what it says! And I've repeatedly pointed this out too.

Don't just take my words. Look at what is happening within Christianity, where as Christians, as devout and 'truth loving' as you have vastly different interpretations on a given text.

I've even linked to Christian commentary supporting a literal view of the miracles. John 14:12 is your undoing.

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You can think this, but hermeneutically speaking, we can then think that John 16:25 is your undoing ...

BigV said:

You know about God's character how??? From 6 and promises that are false.



Uhm. no it hasn't! There were Christians spinsters looking at ways to make the text mean absolutely ANYTHING other than what it says! And I've repeatedly pointed this out too.

Don't just take my words. Look at what is happening within Christianity, where as Christians, as devout and 'truth loving' as you have vastly different interpretations on a given text.

I've even linked to Christian commentary supporting a literal view of the miracles. John 14:12 is your undoing.

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I know about God's Character through the scriptures (Romans 10:17), through the testimony of others, and through my own testimony. You claim God's promises and writings are false...well I'd ask you to back that up but you will just return that response with more questions won't you.

Christian spinsters? That word means something else. The Christians who disagree with you are attempting to look at the text, you aren't attempting to do anything other than to stamp your feet and demand we accept your views. If you want to make a case for John 14:12 you know where to do it. You have unanswered objections there, especially Philos.

You continually make blusterous claims that you back with 0 substance. You speak of God not as one who doesn't believe, but as one speaks of an X-Girlfriend when they are desperate to appear in the right. You are and will always be the wrong one in that relationship, and your hatred over it is destroying you and twisting you into something your old self would be ashamed of. Consider what you have become... forget the retort you are preparing to that and instead pause and consider what you have become.

2PhiloVoid said:

But let me keep this straight; you're gripe in this ISN'T really about whether it's right or wrong in the New Testament era for a Christian to be able to call Fire down from Heaven, but rather with the whole enterprise of miraculous works itself. Am I interpreting you correctly?

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Of course. But the story of Elijah does provide an excellent example of the kind of things we would reasonably expect to be happening in a universe in which God really existed. The fact that we only place such things ever happen is in stories about God - well, shouldn't that give Christians something to think about?
I'm not saying its proof that God doesn't exist. Such proof is notoriously difficult to come by, as you discovered when you tried to disprove Santa (sorry I wasn't able to answer your last post, but, rest assured, no Santaist would be bothered by it for a moment).
But the fact that the stories of God show Him acting in certain very public ways, while our actual experience of God is nothing at all like this - doesn't that give Christians pause?
I'm appealing to your reason here, Philo. I hope you will surprise me.

Sanoy said:

You continually make blusterous claims that you back with 0 substance. You speak of God not as one who doesn't believe, but as one speaks of an X-Girlfriend when they are desperate to appear in the right. You are and will always be the wrong one in that relationship, and your hatred over it is destroying you and twisting you into something your old self would be ashamed of. Consider what you have become... forget the retort you are preparing to that and instead pause and consider what you have become.

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Sorry for interrupting this crie de couer, but it's actually Christians who talk about God like a girlfriend (or boyfriend) - the really wonderful one, who, strangely enough, nobody ever gets to meet, and none of the photos ever show the two of you together. But she's real, honest!

InterestedAtheist said:

Of course. But the story of Elijah does provide an excellent example of the kind of things we would reasonably expect to be happening in a universe in which God really existed. The fact that we only place such things ever happen is in stories about God - well, shouldn't that give Christians something to think about?

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It's definitely something to begin thinking about ...

I'm not saying its proof that God doesn't exist. Such proof is notoriously difficult to come by, as you discovered when you tried to disprove Santa (sorry I wasn't able to answer your last post, but, rest assured, no Santaist would be bothered by it for a moment).
But the fact that the stories of God show Him acting in certain very public ways, while our actual experience of God is nothing at all like this - doesn't that give Christians pause?

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Oh, I'm definitely pausing.

I'm appealing to your reason here, Philo. I hope you will surprise me.

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... excuse me while I .......

BigV said:

You are ignoring the fact that Baal too had to perform. The test of a true God is that on demand, he/she/it must act, if their existence is doubted.

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Excellent point. Elijah stated the case clearly:
21 And Elijah came near unto all the people, and said, How long go ye limping between the two sides? if Jehovah be God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
Christians frequently say, in conversations like these, that we have no right to test God. But Elijah has told you that we do have the right to test God. He set up a public test for Baal. Now you don't think like this, because you don't think Baal is real. But I don't think God is real either, so Elijah's conditions stand: if a God wants you to believe in Him - and we know that the Christian God does desire that as many people as possible are saved - then He must perform on command.
Don't like it? Sorry. Your Holy Book says so.

Sanoy said:

I gave you a reason why it wasn't for the whole world, which is also obvious from the text. You give me an assertion that it is and then complain I have reasons for what I claimed? Yeah, that sounds about right.

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You didn't give me a reason. You gave me a rationalisation.
NOUN
rationalisation (noun)

1. the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.

Sanoy said:

I gave you a theological reason written 2,000 years ago. Do you actually know what ad hoc means? Here's a word to look up, burden of proof. I have given a theological exception, you can get angry at me, but I didn't write it.

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I'm not angry with you, I assure you.
And yes, I do know what ad hoc means. It's also sometimes called the "making stuff up" fallacy. It's use here is correct, I'm afraid.

Sanoy said:

Your entire survey of Christianity comes from a prayer wall. Let that sink in. Let me know when you are ready to be credible.

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I'll answer your point in a moment. First of all, I just have to note: is this Christian charity?
Because you seemed to think that BigV was being...I forget the exact words you used. Bitter and vituperative? Poisonous? Yes, something like that.
So do you honestly think you can stand before God and tell Him that your post was what might be called "in a Christian spirit"?

Now, to address what you said: I gave you a challenge. Can you find a prayer on the Prayer Wall where they are actually asking for something impossible? And your answer is to sidestep the question. I believe this is an important point, and I can only think you are avoiding it because you are unable to answer it.

This is Christian Forums. It's a very large website for Christians. There are literally hundreds of prayers on the Prayer Wall. While it isn't representative of every Christian in the world, are you really telling me the prayers they say there are completely atypical of Christianity? No? In that case, answer the question, if you can. How many prayers are actually asking for the impossible?

And if you can't, perhaps you'd care to concede the point: Christians generally don't ask God for impossible things. That established, we can consider why. My idea is that they know God simply doesn't answer prayers for the impossible.

BigV said:

With your apologetic for Yahweh, how can you not be a theist for every other religion? All of the Gods work the same way today as Yahweh works today!

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Sanoy said:

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

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He's saying that the arguments you make on behalf of the Christian God can be used with equal facility on behalf of any god. And he's quite right. As you found when you attempted to disprove Santa, Christian arguments can be used to defend the most ridiculous things.

2PhiloVoid said:

It's definitely something to begin thinking about ...

Oh, I'm definitely pausing.

... excuse me while I .......

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Saying "that's definitely something for me to think about" is too rare on Christian Forums. I hope I shall have the chance to say it too as well.

Sincere respect.

InterestedAtheist said:

Sorry for interrupting this crie de couer, but it's actually Christians who talk about God like a girlfriend (or boyfriend) - the really wonderful one, who, strangely enough, nobody ever gets to meet, and none of the photos ever show the two of you together. But she's real, honest!

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Interestingly, I've never met YOU, nobody I know has met you, and you're not in any of my selfies.

Should I believe that you exist ?