Trump and the Ecomony

The_Barmecide · Oct 20, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
When Trump won and introduced his “trickle down economics” plan, big corporations to include Walmart, Target, & Amazon, introduced wage increases, many corporations gave bonuses to employees as a direct result of their anticipated tax cuts, unemployment went to record lows, stock market went to record highs, the average household income adjusted for inflation went up, the US went from 3rd place oil production (behind Saudi Arabia and Russia) to the#1 oil and natural gas production in the world in just a couple of years; and the list goes on. Sounds like he did a lot for the economy to me.

Workers barely benefited from Trump’s sweeping tax cut, investigation shows

Ken-1122 · Oct 20, 2019

The_Barmecide said:
Workers barely benefited from Trump’s sweeping tax cut, investigation shows

The link admits workers did benefit from Trumps tax cuts, they just feel the benefit was not enough.

Arcangl86 · Oct 20, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
The link admits workers did benefit from Trumps tax cuts, they just feel the benefit was not enough.

They only received 6% of the money the companies saved, and that was a pure PR move.

Ken-1122 · Oct 21, 2019

Arcangl86 said:
They only received 6% of the money the companies saved, and that was a pure PR move.

I get it! But I'm under the impression the middleclass and working poor are better off with the 6% raise than without it, and I'm also convinced they will do a better job spending it than the Government would have. However; if you still are trying to make the case that all the improvements under the trump administration are a result of outgoing Obama policies, you need to point to an Obama policy that resulted in this 6% raise to the workers; otherwise your argument fails.

The_Barmecide · Oct 21, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
The link admits workers did benefit from Trumps tax cuts, they just feel the benefit was not enough.

The Trump Tax cuts were always going to be a bigger boon to the CEO's as they often went with stock buy-backs to artificially inflate stock values and result in more bonuses for the C-suite.

The Trump Tax Cuts REALLY will have their biggest effect by ballooning our deficit. When you reduced revenues you hamper our ability to pay our debts.

Trickledown has NEVER worked. Since Ronald Reagan started pushing it in the 1980's it has never systematically worked as advertised. Yet that is all we ever get from GOP politicians.

The_Barmecide · Oct 21, 2019

Arcangl86 said:
They only received 6% of the money the companies saved, and that was a pure PR move.

And likely the company you work for didn't take the extra money and plow it into development either. A lot of companies went for stock buy-backs instead. That goes to executive pockets in the end in the form of bigger bonuses for them.

Ken-1122 · Oct 21, 2019

The_Barmecide said:
The Trump Tax cuts were always going to be a bigger boon to the CEO's as they often went with stock buy-backs to artificially inflate stock values and result in more bonuses for the C-suite.

The Trump Tax Cuts REALLY will have their biggest effect by ballooning our deficit. When you reduced revenues you hamper our ability to pay our debts.

I think the ballooning of our deficit is more so the result of his defense spending. Remember; Reagan cut taxes, and tax revenue actually increased when he did this, even though his defense spending swallowed up any increased revenue and then some.

The Real Reagan Economic Record: Responsible and Successful Fiscal Policy

The_Barmecide said:
Trickledown has NEVER worked. Since Ronald Reagan started pushing it in the 1980's it has never systematically worked as advertised. Yet that is all we ever get from GOP politicians.

How has Trickle down been advertised? Every since Trump introduced his version of "trickle down" the economy seems to have imporved.

The_Barmecide · Oct 21, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
How has Trickle down been advertised? Every since Trump introduced his version of "trickle down" the economy seems to have imporved.

Why are we still pretending 'trickle-down' economics work? | Morris Pearl

Ken-1122 · Oct 22, 2019

The_Barmecide said:
Why are we still pretending 'trickle-down' economics work? | Morris Pearl

Nothing has to work as well as advertised, it just has to work better than what we were doing before. Reganomics seamed to work better than what Carter was doing before, and Trumps plan seem to be working better than what Obama was doing before.

The_Barmecide · Oct 22, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
Nothing has to work as well as advertised, it just has to work better than what we were doing before. Reganomics seamed to work better than what Carter was doing before, and Trumps plan seem to be working better than what Obama was doing before.

Reagan ushered in the era where only the top make money off of increasing productivity while the middle class income stagnates.

Indeed, trickle down DIDN'T work at all! Unless you mean it trickled down from the 99th percentile to the 98th percentile.

TheGuide · Oct 22, 2019

rockytopva said:
I don't believe the American government is set up for our best benefit. Economic times are not bad. I have studied history where it seemed like every decade in the late 1800's they would have a time of recession, and then we had the time of great depression.

Donald Trump has the economy rolling around well. I worry that if they get rid of him we will fall on hard economic times. I believe they will get someone in office who will be politically correct, but the economy will suffer as politically correct is not always what is best for the country.

You're kidding, right? He has ballooned the deficit with his big tax break for the rich, we're going backwards not forwards, and the hit we are taking for his tariffs is still sinking us.

Ken-1122 · Oct 22, 2019

The_Barmecide said:
Reagan ushered in the era where only the top make money off of increasing productivity while the middle class income stagnates.

Indeed, trickle down DIDN'T work at all! Unless you mean it trickled down from the 99th percentile to the 98th percentile.

It is not a fair comparison to compare the growth of the economy from the end of WW2 to the mid 70's because after the war, Europe and Asia was pretty much destroyed and the United States was left untouched thus was the only country open for business, they had no competition from Europe and Asia; it took the rest of the world 30 years or so to rebuild and catch up. So of course there was going to be unrealistic growth during that time, but that growth had nothing to do with the policies of that time and everything to do with the fact that we were the only country open for business; let alone the debt Europe owed us after the war.

whatbogsends · Oct 22, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
It is not a fair comparison to compare the growth of the economy from the end of WW2 to the mid 70's because after the war, Europe and Asia was pretty much destroyed and the United States was left untouched thus was the only country open for business, they had no competition from Europe and Asia; it took the rest of the world 30 years or so to rebuild and catch up. So of course there was going to be unrealistic growth during that time, but that growth had nothing to do with the policies of that time and everything to do with the fact that we were the only country open for business; let alone the debt Europe owed us after the war.

The chart isn't showing that growth stopped. The chart is showing that since Reagan, the gains from increases in productivity went almost exclusively to the top, whereas prior to that, the rising tide raised all ships.

Ken-1122 · Oct 22, 2019

whatbogsends said:
The chart isn't showing that growth stopped. The chart is showing that since Reagan, the gains from increases in productivity went almost exclusively to the top, whereas prior to that, the rising tide raised all ships.

But this continued after Reagan left office and his policies were dead and buried; even under Clinton the vast majority of the gains during that time went to the top.

whatbogsends · Oct 22, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
But this continued after Reagan left office and his policies were dead and buried; even under Clinton the vast majority of the gains during that time went to the top.

The tax rate structure Reagan introduce was never dead and buried.

Prior to Reagan, the highest marginal tax rate was 70%. Under Reagan, it was cut to 28%. It has not gone back up past 39.6%. The only other time the highest marginal tax rate was that low was in the 20s and early 30s, leading up to the Great Depression.

Historical Highest Marginal Income Tax Rates

Similarly, under Reagan, capital gains tax rates were reduced. It was further reduced under Bush II.

Both of these policies are essentially "trickle-down", and are part and parcel of the increasing wealth gap between workers (those actually producing goods and services) and those owning the capital (who may facilitate productivity, but don't actually do the producing).

Ken-1122 · Oct 22, 2019

whatbogsends said:
The tax rate structure Reagan introduce was never dead and buried.

Prior to Reagan, the highest marginal tax rate was 70%. Under Reagan, it was cut to 28%. It has not gone back up past 39.6%. The only other time the highest marginal tax rate was that low was in the 20s and early 30s, leading up to the Great Depression.

Historical Highest Marginal Income Tax Rates

Similarly, under Reagan, capital gains tax rates were reduced. It was further reduced under Bush II.

Both of these policies are essentially "trickle-down", and are part and parcel of the increasing wealth gap between workers (those actually producing goods and services) and those owning the capital (who may facilitate productivity, but don't actually do the producing).

I noticed according to the chart you provided, it seems the poor and middle class were doing much better in the 1970’s when the taxes began to drop as opposed to the 40’s, and 50’s when the top rates were around 90%.
Does this chart pertain to the USA? Or does it pertain to the entire world. Because I noticed it says

World top income database of Piketty Saez et. al.

KCfromNC · Oct 23, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
I noticed according to the chart you provided, it seems the poor and middle class were doing much better in the 1970’s when the taxes began to drop as opposed to the 40’s, and 50’s when the top rates were around 90%.

Weird you'd "notice" that and not "notice" the much larger effects happening in the 80s through today.

FenderTL5 · Oct 23, 2019

KCfromNC said:
Weird you'd "notice" that and not "notice" the much larger effects happening in the 80s through today.

An idiom referencing a forest and trees comes to mind.

whatbogsends · Oct 23, 2019

Ken-1122 said:
I noticed according to the chart you provided, it seems the poor and middle class were doing much better in the 1970’s when the taxes began to drop as opposed to the 40’s, and 50’s when the top rates were around 90%.
Does this chart pertain to the USA? Or does it pertain to the entire world. Because I noticed it says

World top income database of Piketty Saez et. al.

I didn't provide the chart, I merely commented on your misunderstanding of what it says. You'll have to ask Barmicide where he got the chart and the details of what it describes.

It was my assumption, based on Barmicide's post, that it was a chart of US incomes.

Ken-1122 · Oct 23, 2019

KCfromNC said:
Weird you'd "notice" that and not "notice" the much larger effects happening in the 80s through today.

Which larger effects would that be?

Trump and the Ecomony

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