Trump Ends Fight Against ISIS
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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Indeed -- and since Donald apparently makes deals with everyone else to help his personal situation, who's to say he hasn't cut a deal with ISIS leadership to make sure none of his buildings go boom?
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SoldierOfTheKing
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You know full well who I mean. If anybody is being coy, it's you. You're the one who alluded to a massacre that was a direct result of Muslim immigration into the US. Incredibly, the US has allowed far more Muslims to enter since September 11, 2001 than were ever admitted before. There have been many subsequent massacres since then, in Europe as well as America. Yet when Trump called for a halt to immigration as a presidential candidate, so many in the political class were indignant. Many of the same people who are howling bloody murder over the President's decision to move the troops in northeastern Syria to safety.
First it was to fight ISIS, now it's to protect the Kurds, always a pretext to send the troops overseas into fights they are not allowed to win - for if they did, there would be no more excuse to keep them there. They used fight for anything and everything, except actually protecting their country's borders.
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TLK Valentine
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SimplyMe
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I'm sorry, this is a false dilemma, a type of logic fallacy. It seems many Trump supporters are trying to claim we had to just pull them out with no planning or our troops would never leave. This is false and it is largely what is being objected to.
Rather than just pulling out, why don't we find some other ally to come in and take our positions, the countries that would benefit in peace and keeping ISIS members locked up? Why didn't we move the ISIS leaders that we had imprisoned there, rather than many of them now going free because of the way we pulled out?
Also, "protecting the Kurds" is not a pretext, not in the way you are trying to claim. Instead, we have been fighting with the Kurds help, they have proven themselves as allies and we convinced them to dismantle many of their defenses against Turkey with the promise that we would protect them. Breaking promises is one of those things that could seriously hurt us in the future, why would someone help us when we are known for breaking our promises?
What is being said, and the complaints, are that this was a "spur of the moment" decision, largely when Trump was on the call with Turkey's Pres. Edrogan. If that isn't bad enough, Trump also mentioned how it was a conflict of interest for him -- since he has investments in Turkey. Yes, Trump mentioned that we were going to pull out months ago -- but the decision to pull out now was not thought out, he didn't discuss how it could be done responsibly and orderly -- he just said "they are leaving now." This is the complaint, not that we are leaving but that we are leaving the worst possible way, allowing ISIS leaders captured with American blood to just escape and abandoning our allies. Instead, Trump should have the Joint Chiefs and the State department to plan out an orderly withdrawal, that both helped protect the Kurds (perhaps allies taking over our positions) and finding more secure areas to imprison the ISIS leaders.
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Well, even if ISIS is defeated now, if thousands of their fighters receive a "get out of jail free card" from Turkey's attack, they might well become resurrected.
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So, you think withdrawing our 5000 support forces will cause ISIS to beat Iraqi and Iranian fighters in Iraq. This seems very unlikely. More likely is that Iran will solidify control of the Iraqi government.
Iraq Prepares to Evict U.S. Troops
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With regard to Afghanistan, the US is not defeating the Talliban anytime soon, and will never do so, even with large number of troops. The reality on the ground is that The Kabul government controls lots of territory, the Talliban controls lots of territory, and that independent war lords control lots of territory. Having US troops continue to die for another 18 years won't change that situation.
Iraq Prepares to Evict U.S. Troops
====
With regard to Afghanistan, the US is not defeating the Talliban anytime soon, and will never do so, even with large number of troops. The reality on the ground is that The Kabul government controls lots of territory, the Talliban controls lots of territory, and that independent war lords control lots of territory. Having US troops continue to die for another 18 years won't change that situation.
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The US has no interest in managing 12,000 ISIS prisoners, 2,000 of whom are Europeans. The Kurds have that task.
The 1000 US troops in Syria are providing training and support in the use of weapons. We are not there to manage prisons. These 1000 troops will now be move to the south of Syria, and eventually back to the US or to other bases in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, the UAE, or Qatar).
The bottom line is that Trump is continuing Obama's policy of wanting to evacuate the very few remaining troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.
I think that you greatly overestimate how much so few troops can accomplish, and how much difference they can make.
The 1000 US troops in Syria are providing training and support in the use of weapons. We are not there to manage prisons. These 1000 troops will now be move to the south of Syria, and eventually back to the US or to other bases in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, the UAE, or Qatar).
The bottom line is that Trump is continuing Obama's policy of wanting to evacuate the very few remaining troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.
I think that you greatly overestimate how much so few troops can accomplish, and how much difference they can make.
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I believe that a national referendum on whether we should withdraw our few remaining troops from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria would have the overwhelming support of the voters as a whole, and of Democrats in Congress. Republicans in Congress are divided. Many would support troops in these countries for many decades, as is the situation in Korea.
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essentialsaltes
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"Saudi Arabia, at my request, has agreed to pay us for everything we’re doing. That’s a first."
This should give pause to Americans concerned about our soldiers in harm's way in foreign countries.
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Silverback
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leaving is the wrong thing to do, if we just quit, no one will ever trust us again, there will be a blood bath, all our dead, and wounded will have died for nothing, and it will guarantee we will have to fight them here.
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TLK Valentine
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"An ISIS flag has - literally - been raised again in the Syrian countryside. The ISIS flag. Flying again. Can you Trump supporters get it *yet*? Can you admit your god king doesn’t know what he is doing? If not, when deaths start here again, we will point at you as responsible."
Kurt Eichenwald on Twitter
Kurt Eichenwald on Twitter
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The US is evacuating 1000 advisors. If we are faulting Trump for not committing tens of thousands of troops to fight with the Kurds against a NATO ally over the next decade or two, we should say so.
BTW, I am NOT saying that supporting the Kurds would be the wrong decision, only that we are being disingenuous.
BTW, I am NOT saying that supporting the Kurds would be the wrong decision, only that we are being disingenuous.
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Speedwell
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No, that's not what we are faulting Trump for. But it really doesn't matter any more. From now on, Russia and Iran will have all the say as to what goes on in the region.
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and Turkey and Saudi Arabia
as it should be; consider a map
The US had a choice and decided to emasculate Iraq. Iraq used to be one of the powers in the Middle East, balancing the influence of Iran. The US has turned that role over to Turkey.
The US has had huge commitments to the protecting the US (and European) supply of oil. The era of Middle Eastern oil dominance is gone , as is US dependence on Middle East oil.
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Let's be clear. It is Obama who recognized the shift in US foreign policy, from the Middle East being central to Asia being our focus; we are continuing the pivot to East Asia.
as it should be; consider a map
The US had a choice and decided to emasculate Iraq. Iraq used to be one of the powers in the Middle East, balancing the influence of Iran. The US has turned that role over to Turkey.
The US has had huge commitments to the protecting the US (and European) supply of oil. The era of Middle Eastern oil dominance is gone , as is US dependence on Middle East oil.
=====
Let's be clear. It is Obama who recognized the shift in US foreign policy, from the Middle East being central to Asia being our focus; we are continuing the pivot to East Asia.
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essentialsaltes
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The U.S. began pulling back from northeastern Syria, evacuating a small contingent of American diplomats and relocating troops as Turkey pressed its military campaign against Kurdish forces, displacing tens of thousands of people.
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abysmul
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Without mentioning the bad orange man, can anyone who believes we should stay explain to what end? For how long? What will end us being there? How much more time? How many more lives of American soldiers? How much more US tax dollars? Please explain how this realistically ends if we don't pull out, and why haven't these things to end it haven't happened yet (after all these years, lives, and billions)?
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We are faulting Trump for making a very poor decision. He could have kept less than a 100 Special Forces troops in place -- two weeks ago and preserved the security zone along the Turkish border. Instead, he saw it as an opportunity to complete a campaign promise -- and green lighted the Turkish invasion.
Trump is accountable for that decision.
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